Accident with uninsured driver, assistance please
Discussion
Some muppet has misjudged his speed and driven into the back of my sister's (MY!) car.
The problem is he was driving his wife's car and it doesn't appear that he is insured for it.
They swapped details and my sister informed her insurance company and asked for a claim form.
This chap then came round to my sisters house and explained about the wife thing and asked if he could pay without involving the insurance companies.
My initial thoughts are for her to get a quote for all work required from an official Peugeot garage and then get it written down on their paper work and show him. If he is happy then get him to pay cash and cash alone for it (no cheques etc etc - just in case)
Does this sound reasonable?
The other side of this is that my sister has gone to the doctors to get checked out as she had a sore neck and headache the day after the accident. I'm hoping that this is just because she was V upset following the crash and spent most of the day in tears (shock I guess)
Anyway, if she accepts a cash payment without recourse to the insurers and it is later found that she has an injury, will she then be able to inform the respective insurance companies and claim for any treatment needed , or will taking the payment void any rights she may have to further claims?
Also, as she is aware that this guy, accidently or not, was driving without insurance should she inform the police, and if she doesn't - and later on if she has any problems collecting money or any further money needed for treatment (if appropriate) - will her failure to notify the police of this chap's circumstances, get her in trouble for anything at all? (ie: knowingly assisting a crime or something daft like that?)
Also remember that this chap knows where she lives (and she does so alone)so if anything untoward happens and he is a dodgy type will this influence any of your replies?
Apologies for the long post but there are a few questions and things that I would like to get cleared up.
Many thanks in anticipation
Phil
>>> Edited by mannginger on Saturday 28th June 17:03
The problem is he was driving his wife's car and it doesn't appear that he is insured for it.
They swapped details and my sister informed her insurance company and asked for a claim form.
This chap then came round to my sisters house and explained about the wife thing and asked if he could pay without involving the insurance companies.
My initial thoughts are for her to get a quote for all work required from an official Peugeot garage and then get it written down on their paper work and show him. If he is happy then get him to pay cash and cash alone for it (no cheques etc etc - just in case)
Does this sound reasonable?
The other side of this is that my sister has gone to the doctors to get checked out as she had a sore neck and headache the day after the accident. I'm hoping that this is just because she was V upset following the crash and spent most of the day in tears (shock I guess)
Anyway, if she accepts a cash payment without recourse to the insurers and it is later found that she has an injury, will she then be able to inform the respective insurance companies and claim for any treatment needed , or will taking the payment void any rights she may have to further claims?
Also, as she is aware that this guy, accidently or not, was driving without insurance should she inform the police, and if she doesn't - and later on if she has any problems collecting money or any further money needed for treatment (if appropriate) - will her failure to notify the police of this chap's circumstances, get her in trouble for anything at all? (ie: knowingly assisting a crime or something daft like that?)
Also remember that this chap knows where she lives (and she does so alone)so if anything untoward happens and he is a dodgy type will this influence any of your replies?
Apologies for the long post but there are a few questions and things that I would like to get cleared up.
Many thanks in anticipation
Phil
>>> Edited by mannginger on Saturday 28th June 17:03
Hmmmn.
Personal advice only. I am NOT a lawyer but the principle of the thing is:
The bloke is clearly honest...he has offered to pay to make good the damage to the car. This will certainly cost him dear and he is no doubt cursing himself. Driving without insurance is a serious offence - he will certainly be wishing to avoid prosecution for it and, I expect, is willing to pay highly to avoid that.
With respect to the damage on the car I would get a quote for a fix and ask him for the cash. Do this in writing and keep copies. There is no need to mention in these letters that he does not have insurance...which would be a kindness...
If your sister is going to suffer illness due to an injury though its a different matter. One might be tempted to wait and see how that goes...if she becomes ill and a large claim needs to made against the guy and he is unable or unwilling to pay then, since he had no insurance, things are going to get very sticky and he will certainly be prosecuted.
I don't envy you and your sister's dilemma. Light damage to the car and no harm done I'd say go for a private settlement and save this poor bloke some crap.
Nasty damage to the car and your poor sister going to unwell for a period...difficult to say.
I do hope one of our legal PHers can enlighten you on the legal implications of going through your sister's insurance company.
My very best wishes to your sister for a quick recovery and fix to the car. I hope her headache is just shock and reaction rather than anything else...
Personal advice only. I am NOT a lawyer but the principle of the thing is:
The bloke is clearly honest...he has offered to pay to make good the damage to the car. This will certainly cost him dear and he is no doubt cursing himself. Driving without insurance is a serious offence - he will certainly be wishing to avoid prosecution for it and, I expect, is willing to pay highly to avoid that.
With respect to the damage on the car I would get a quote for a fix and ask him for the cash. Do this in writing and keep copies. There is no need to mention in these letters that he does not have insurance...which would be a kindness...
If your sister is going to suffer illness due to an injury though its a different matter. One might be tempted to wait and see how that goes...if she becomes ill and a large claim needs to made against the guy and he is unable or unwilling to pay then, since he had no insurance, things are going to get very sticky and he will certainly be prosecuted.
I don't envy you and your sister's dilemma. Light damage to the car and no harm done I'd say go for a private settlement and save this poor bloke some crap.
Nasty damage to the car and your poor sister going to unwell for a period...difficult to say.
I do hope one of our legal PHers can enlighten you on the legal implications of going through your sister's insurance company.
My very best wishes to your sister for a quick recovery and fix to the car. I hope her headache is just shock and reaction rather than anything else...
I had a similar event where the woman's (who rear-ended me) husband who claimed to be a 'mechanic' would repair the car. I declined cos there's no way of telling how good his work is.
Since you should have all his details, write a statement of what happened and get him to sign it. Take it to your solicitor and sue him for damages.
The same process would happen if you went through your insurer.
Since you should have all his details, write a statement of what happened and get him to sign it. Take it to your solicitor and sue him for damages.
The same process would happen if you went through your insurer.
I assume therefore that he does not have comprehensive insurance in his own right on a different car? Otherwise he would, I assume, be insured 3rd party to drive any car. Might be worth checking.
The other thing to do is pop round to his house to check he lives where he said he did, might be able to guess his financial standing as well from investigating.
I suppose you have nothing to lose my speaking to your insurance company and asking them the answers to your questions. Skipping the reference to him not eing insured!
Suppose it depends whther you think he is to be trusted, whether he has been polite and civil at all times etc.
If he wasn't insured is there any benefit to pursuing it through the insurance company? After all he could b charged, lose his licence, job etc and then have no means to pay compensation anyway!
The other thing to do is pop round to his house to check he lives where he said he did, might be able to guess his financial standing as well from investigating.
I suppose you have nothing to lose my speaking to your insurance company and asking them the answers to your questions. Skipping the reference to him not eing insured!
Suppose it depends whther you think he is to be trusted, whether he has been polite and civil at all times etc.
If he wasn't insured is there any benefit to pursuing it through the insurance company? After all he could b charged, lose his licence, job etc and then have no means to pay compensation anyway!
He will definitely be better off by paying for your repairs, but he should have sorted out his insurance, so you take care of yourself. If he was insured you'd get you car repaired, a hire car, and compensation for your sisters injuries with a minimum of hassle.
I'm in the process of a similar claim due to an uninsured driver. It's been long, a real pain in the arse, and I will not get back nearly all of my losses, so I can fully empathise with why you might want to take the easy option and allow him to pay. You're undoubtedly taking a risk though by not reporting it. If he can't hand over a sizeable wad of cash immediately, I'd cover myself and report it.
Again, I am not a legal expert, but you do have an important decision to make quickly. You are obliged to report a road traffic accident to the Police as soon as possible and within 24 hours. You are probably also required, by you insurance company, to notify them of any accidents whether you are going to claim or not. If you don't do either of these soon you'll make things a lot more complicated if he changes his mind about paying up, or can't afford to.
If he's an honest person who's made a genuine mistake, it's one that will certainly cost him thousands of pounds in the longer term (to insure a car, the criminal punishment for this is negligible), so he may well be keen to pay.
If you do report it and you were fully comprehensively insured, your insurance company will have to pay for repairs. The MIB only cover a minimum of uninsured losses and personal injury. You will loose NCB and your own insurance renewal will be loaded for the next 5 years because you've made a 'fault' claim. Think about this and your excess and get some 'hypothetical' quotes for insurance renewal before claiming for the repair costs from your insurer. Yes, the stupid thing is, if you report it you may end up better off by paying for the repairs yourself.
I'd get some legal advice if I were you. I'd be very surprised if they didn't strongly advise you to report it. Does your insurance have legal expenses cover for uninsured losses or a free helpline? The RAC do if not.
Whiplash takes a while to set in, your sister will find it gets worse before it gets better and in a months time the constant discomfort will be getting to her too, even if the worst of the pain has passed. Go to see a doctor (at the hospital if your GP is closed on Sunday). You have to do this if you are going to successfully claim for the injury.
Sorry for the essay, but that was a red-hot topic for me at the moment.
Good luck with it all
Andy
I'm in the process of a similar claim due to an uninsured driver. It's been long, a real pain in the arse, and I will not get back nearly all of my losses, so I can fully empathise with why you might want to take the easy option and allow him to pay. You're undoubtedly taking a risk though by not reporting it. If he can't hand over a sizeable wad of cash immediately, I'd cover myself and report it.
Again, I am not a legal expert, but you do have an important decision to make quickly. You are obliged to report a road traffic accident to the Police as soon as possible and within 24 hours. You are probably also required, by you insurance company, to notify them of any accidents whether you are going to claim or not. If you don't do either of these soon you'll make things a lot more complicated if he changes his mind about paying up, or can't afford to.
If he's an honest person who's made a genuine mistake, it's one that will certainly cost him thousands of pounds in the longer term (to insure a car, the criminal punishment for this is negligible), so he may well be keen to pay.
If you do report it and you were fully comprehensively insured, your insurance company will have to pay for repairs. The MIB only cover a minimum of uninsured losses and personal injury. You will loose NCB and your own insurance renewal will be loaded for the next 5 years because you've made a 'fault' claim. Think about this and your excess and get some 'hypothetical' quotes for insurance renewal before claiming for the repair costs from your insurer. Yes, the stupid thing is, if you report it you may end up better off by paying for the repairs yourself.
I'd get some legal advice if I were you. I'd be very surprised if they didn't strongly advise you to report it. Does your insurance have legal expenses cover for uninsured losses or a free helpline? The RAC do if not.
Whiplash takes a while to set in, your sister will find it gets worse before it gets better and in a months time the constant discomfort will be getting to her too, even if the worst of the pain has passed. Go to see a doctor (at the hospital if your GP is closed on Sunday). You have to do this if you are going to successfully claim for the injury.
Sorry for the essay, but that was a red-hot topic for me at the moment.
Good luck with it all
Andy
Question... Would you drive without insurance!
This happened to my mother and she ended up trusting the guy who then did a runner.
IMHO you should report this to the police and claim back the costs of the damage or hand it over to your insurance company.
Also it's about time the law changed in the UK so that insurance is clearly visible in the windscreen (Or rear numberplate).Or even adopt the OZ scheme of when you tax your car it is also covered for 3rd party insurance.
This happened to my mother and she ended up trusting the guy who then did a runner.
IMHO you should report this to the police and claim back the costs of the damage or hand it over to your insurance company.
Also it's about time the law changed in the UK so that insurance is clearly visible in the windscreen (Or rear numberplate).Or even adopt the OZ scheme of when you tax your car it is also covered for 3rd party insurance.
apeebles said:
Question... Would you drive without insurance!
This happened to my mother and she ended up trusting the guy who then did a runner.
IMHO you should report this to the police and claim back the costs of the damage or hand it over to your insurance company.
Also it's about time the law changed in the UK so that insurance is clearly visible in the windscreen (Or rear numberplate).Or even adopt the OZ scheme of when you tax your car it is also covered for 3rd party insurance.
This wouldn't help in this instance though.
My reading was that the driver was driving his wifes car and at the time believed he was insured. When he got home and retrieved the insurance policy he found out he wasn't.
As a matter of interest is genuibuely believing you are insured a defense for driving without insurance?
Ignorance is no excuse. If you are not sure you should check!! Obviosuly the gut did make a mistake - by failin to ensure he was adequately insured. His problem not yours. Do what you need to do to put you in a situation you were in before the crash (the purpose of damages) and ignore how 'nice' he may be.
Yup, seemingly nice guy or not, you're taking a big personal risk trusting him. There is next to no relationship between the legal and civil cases against him though. It's worth at least seeking advice on whether the criminal part is necessary in order to make the civil case valid.
I wonder though how many owners of high performance cars with specialist fully comp insurance believe they're covered to drive other cars. Many don't give this cover, and if your policy doesn't say you are covered, you're not.
I wonder though how many owners of high performance cars with specialist fully comp insurance believe they're covered to drive other cars. Many don't give this cover, and if your policy doesn't say you are covered, you're not.
rat said:
I wonder though how many owners of high performance cars with specialist fully comp insurance believe they're covered to drive other cars. Many don't give this cover, and if your policy doesn't say you are covered, you're not.
Similar to this, many companies write it into their policy that you have 3rd party cover to drive other cars but attach exclusion clauses to this (which may conveniently be on another page) so whilst on the face of it it looks like you may be covered if you read deeper you might find that you are not.
My advice:
Phone your insurance company and notify them of the incident. Get them to fix the motor and give them his details. If he wants to pay them direct he is perfectly entitled to do so, and he does not need to tell anyone he is not insured for the incident. You get your motor fixed without any risk - except if he then welches on the deal and doesn;t pay the insurer, in which case you lose a couple of year's no claims and your excess, for which you sue him in Small Claims. The insurer will sue him in Big Claims and Plod will probably want a word with him as well, so he'd be better off to pay up and keep shtumm.
Phone your insurance company and notify them of the incident. Get them to fix the motor and give them his details. If he wants to pay them direct he is perfectly entitled to do so, and he does not need to tell anyone he is not insured for the incident. You get your motor fixed without any risk - except if he then welches on the deal and doesn;t pay the insurer, in which case you lose a couple of year's no claims and your excess, for which you sue him in Small Claims. The insurer will sue him in Big Claims and Plod will probably want a word with him as well, so he'd be better off to pay up and keep shtumm.
This is the area of law I work in so I will try and explain how it works simply.
If someone is injured, that injured person has 3 years in which to issue proceedings against those responsible for those injuries unless the injured person is a child or someone incapable of looking after their own affairs in which case there is no time limit.
If the driver is uninsured, you can make a claim through the MIB (Motor Insurance Beurau) which has two categories Uninsured and untraced and the claim is dealt with exactly the same as if the claim went through the insurance company. The downside is that there are very strict protocols as far as MIB claims are concerned and therefore help will be needed to represent you which many insurers won't do.
An injury has to be worth a minimum of £1000 before you can obtain a no win no fee agreement, otherwise you won't get your legal fees back, and the whole process will probably take in the region of 18 months to settle (often longer with MIB claims) or £5000 for damage only accidents.
The important thing is to get a medical examination and report it to the Police. The driver will be reported, and this will help substantiate you claim later on.
If an MIB claim is met, they invariably then go after the third party to recover their costs and this will run into thousands, but if you are genuinely injured, then deal with it through the proper channels as ypu may regret it later on.
If someone is injured, that injured person has 3 years in which to issue proceedings against those responsible for those injuries unless the injured person is a child or someone incapable of looking after their own affairs in which case there is no time limit.
If the driver is uninsured, you can make a claim through the MIB (Motor Insurance Beurau) which has two categories Uninsured and untraced and the claim is dealt with exactly the same as if the claim went through the insurance company. The downside is that there are very strict protocols as far as MIB claims are concerned and therefore help will be needed to represent you which many insurers won't do.
An injury has to be worth a minimum of £1000 before you can obtain a no win no fee agreement, otherwise you won't get your legal fees back, and the whole process will probably take in the region of 18 months to settle (often longer with MIB claims) or £5000 for damage only accidents.
The important thing is to get a medical examination and report it to the Police. The driver will be reported, and this will help substantiate you claim later on.
If an MIB claim is met, they invariably then go after the third party to recover their costs and this will run into thousands, but if you are genuinely injured, then deal with it through the proper channels as ypu may regret it later on.
loaf said:
My advice:
Phone your insurance company and notify them of the incident. Get them to fix the motor and give them his details. If he wants to pay them direct he is perfectly entitled to do so, and he does not need to tell anyone he is not insured for the incident. You get your motor fixed without any risk - except if he then welches on the deal and doesn;t pay the insurer, in which case you lose a couple of year's no claims and your excess, for which you sue him in Small Claims. The insurer will sue him in Big Claims and Plod will probably want a word with him as well, so he'd be better off to pay up and keep shtumm.
This is good advice since most motor policies include legal cover so you are insured for the costs of recovery. Be honest and tell the other driver why you are doing this, he can simply call your insurance company and say he is not claiming on insurance and will make payment himself.
There is no need to report an accident in which no one is hurt, so he will only be prosecuted, if you choose to report his lack of insurance to the Police, and if they can be bothered to do something.
tonybav said:
My advice:
Phone your insurance company and notify them of the incident. Get them to fix the motor and give them his details. If he wants to pay them direct he is perfectly entitled to do so, and he does not need to tell anyone he is not insured for the incident. You get your motor fixed without any risk - except if he then welches on the deal and doesn;t pay the insurer, in which case you lose a couple of year's no claims and your excess, for which you sue him in Small Claims. The insurer will sue him in Big Claims and Plod will probably want a word with him as well, so he'd be better off to pay up and keep shtumm.
This is good advice since most motor policies include legal cover so you are insured for the costs of recovery. Be honest and tell the other driver why you are doing this, he can simply call your insurance company and say he is not claiming on insurance and will make payment himself.
There is no need to report an accident in which no one is hurt, so he will only be prosecuted, if you choose to report his lack of insurance to the Police, and if they can be bothered to do something.
Yeah thanks for that advice, it looks like the saqfest option for all I think. I knew I could get some decent answers here. Thanks for everyones help. My sister appears well at the moment so lets just hope that stays the same (I hate the idea of her claiming whiplash it just smacks of money grabbing, but if she is genuinly injured, then I guess she is enitled to something to help with costs of treatment)
I'll try to keep you updated with what happens.
Cheers
Phil
I hope your sister is okay.
She is certainly in a tricky situation. The guy could be in real trouble if she reports him and he seems (on the little evidence here) as an honest person who made a mistake. At the moment he is willing to pay for the damage and is trying to make ammends.
I don't envy the choice here. She can believe him and not report him to Police etc. Thus preserving an honest persons good name etc. Or she can mistrust him and shop him to the Police etc.
In general people are decent and honest (despite what the press would have yu believe) and I think the advice to go through your sister insurance but explain to him that he can make payment direct to them without declaring his uninsured status is the safest.
He can use whatever excuse he likes (if he needs to make any) as to why he is not involving his own insurance company.
She is certainly in a tricky situation. The guy could be in real trouble if she reports him and he seems (on the little evidence here) as an honest person who made a mistake. At the moment he is willing to pay for the damage and is trying to make ammends.
I don't envy the choice here. She can believe him and not report him to Police etc. Thus preserving an honest persons good name etc. Or she can mistrust him and shop him to the Police etc.
In general people are decent and honest (despite what the press would have yu believe) and I think the advice to go through your sister insurance but explain to him that he can make payment direct to them without declaring his uninsured status is the safest.
He can use whatever excuse he likes (if he needs to make any) as to why he is not involving his own insurance company.
cpearson said:That's why I think using the insurance company is the way to go. He can then do what he likes with the insurance company but if he starts getting funny about paying then they will sue him. It would probably then come to light that he has no insurance. Then the Police could be involved at that point.
He has put you in a bad situation. He might seem nice enough, but you can never be sure. i know nothing of the legalities but i wouldn't put your neck out to far for him, coz anything could happen.
May be i should be more trusting??
You could always claim not to remember the conversation about insurance clearly due to shock.
The way I see it, she’s notified the insurance company and asked for a claim form etc so she’s done her bit, now she has to go and get a quote for the repairs, she can then tell him how much it is, if he pays up she can just ring her insurance and cancel her claim.
It will get tricky if he doesn’t pay, I’m in that situation at the moment, my neighbour hit my car and wasn’t insured, he couldn’t afford the repairs so my insurance paid out, it will go to court eventually, but the accident happened in November and they still haven’t taken any action yet!
I have since had to reinsure my car and lost 2 years NCD for my claim, it increased my premium by nearly £1k, she will be better off taking his money if he comes up with it.
Also when I phoned the police they weren’t interested and told me to let my insurance company deal with it.
It will get tricky if he doesn’t pay, I’m in that situation at the moment, my neighbour hit my car and wasn’t insured, he couldn’t afford the repairs so my insurance paid out, it will go to court eventually, but the accident happened in November and they still haven’t taken any action yet!
I have since had to reinsure my car and lost 2 years NCD for my claim, it increased my premium by nearly £1k, she will be better off taking his money if he comes up with it.
Also when I phoned the police they weren’t interested and told me to let my insurance company deal with it.
As a few people have said to phone the insurance co, it might be worth thinking about something first - even if you do phone them and later retract the claim, it still goes on your history as a non-fault accident.
I'm currently going through this at the minute, after t-boning a car who shouldn't have been on my side of the road. The police said it was 50/50, my insurers did too, his didn't though and it went through. Eventually they said 50/50 and I could claim for my damage through my insurers, and he through his. He chose to claim (I think it was a write off) and I didn't. I still have to declare it now though as being a 50/50 NFA even though I didn't claim a penny.
(two more years to wait before the 5yr barrier)
It's something to bear in mind...
I'm currently going through this at the minute, after t-boning a car who shouldn't have been on my side of the road. The police said it was 50/50, my insurers did too, his didn't though and it went through. Eventually they said 50/50 and I could claim for my damage through my insurers, and he through his. He chose to claim (I think it was a write off) and I didn't. I still have to declare it now though as being a 50/50 NFA even though I didn't claim a penny.
(two more years to wait before the 5yr barrier)
It's something to bear in mind...
cb-dave said:
As a few people have said to phone the insurance co, it might be worth thinking about something first - even if you do phone them and later retract the claim, it still goes on your history as a non-fault accident.
'Non-fault' means different things depending on your viewpoint - in this case, your view is the accident wasn't your fault...and you'd be right, at least from a moral point of view. To an insurance company, 'non-fault incident' is one for which the company doesn't pay out, or makes full recovery if it does pay out. Thus, if your car gets nicked and burnt out (provided you took all reasonable steps to prevent the loss) this in no way is your 'fault' but will be termed a 'fault' claim by the insurer. Note this DOES NOT mean the insurer blames you, it is just a figure of speech.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff