calibration, printing and colour management - going mad....

[cirks]

I've just invested in a nice shiny (brick out house size) HP B9180 printer and would like some of your expertise on getting the best results on this (or other) printers. I'm using PS Elements and a Dell 2005FPW monitor. One issue with the monitor is that it is amazingly bright and I think this is one reason why the prints I'm getting are a bit dull (ie monitor is brightening the 'reality' of the image). I have also invested in a Spyder 2 calibration tool and therefore am now working with a calibrated monitor.

So, can anyone let me know what I should have for the following :
1) Camera settings - Canon 20D currently set to Adobe RGB rather than sRGB
2) Monitor calibrated using 6500K and Gamma 2.2
3) Elements set to Color settings of "Allow me to choose" (but was 'Optimized for printing')
4) If you know the monitor, what brightness/backlight and RGB settings.

Probably asking a bit much for someone to have the same configuration but any advice would be welcome.

[Andy M]

Firstly, never allow the printer to manage the colours - it's crap!

Secondly, buy: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/camera-pr... - money very well spent in your situation

Thirdly, good luck with the Spyder 2 - I've still yet to get good results out of mine.

[_dobbo_]

6hrs 40mins video on printing?! Jesus. I'll keep sending prints to photobox I reckon!

[cirks]

Andy M said:

Firstly, never allow the printer to manage the colours - it's crap!

fortunately, that's the bit I missed from my mail...I have got the printer set to 'Application Managed Colors' so hopefully that will stop the printer mucking things up with double profiling

Andy M said:

Secondly, buy: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/camera-pr... - money very well spent in your situation

Um - does seem a tad excessive

Andy M said:

Thirdly, good luck with the Spyder 2 - I've still yet to get good results out of mine.

That's not what I wanted to hear....It was recommended

_dobbo_ said:

I'll keep sending prints to photobox I reckon!

Trouble is that Photobox doesn't end up with prints looking like they do on my monitor either

Looks like an awful lot of trial and error is going to be required

[ehasler]

It sounds like you've got the first thing sorted, which is to calibrate and profile your monitor. I used to have an original Spyder and had no problems using that with my Dell 2005 monitor, so I'm sure you'll be fine with the Spyder 2 which is supposed to be even better.

Then you need to make sure that you're using the correct profile for the printer/paper combination in Photoshop Elements. I've not used Elements before, but if it's anything like the full-fat PS, then in the print dialogue box, there should be an option to let Elements manage the colours.

There will be a drop down box to enable to you select the Print Space - in here you *should* find a list of HP profiles that were installed by the printer driver software. Pick the one that matches your paper, and then double-check the printer driver settings to ensure that colour management in the printer is switched off, and that the correct paper type/resolution etc... is selected here. Then print, and hopefully it'll be much closer to what you see on screen.

[drivin_me_nuts]

...every time you choose a different paper/media you will need to create an ICC profile for it. This is worth the time and (little) effort required if you want to ensure consistent results.

[poah]

getting your monitor properly calibrated is the first step. I use spyder2 and it works well rememebr to adjust your prints in the same conditions as you profiled the monitor. secondly use photoshop to maage colours and use the correct ICC profile for the paper. thirdly don't expect your prints to look like your screen there will be some offset normally in brightness or contrast but colours are normally spot on. it may take time to get a good print workflow but worth it.

[ehasler]

drivin_me_nuts said:

...every time you choose a different paper/media you will need to create an ICC profile for it. This is worth the time and (little) effort required if you want to ensure consistent results.

Not really true - printers like this will normally come with ICC profiles for some papers (usually their own media), and other paper suppliers often offer their own profiles for various printer models for download on their websites.

Making your own means buying costly software/hardware (£1k+) or paying a 3rd party to do it for you, and for most people won't offer any noticeable benefit over the ones supplied with the printer. Of course, if you're using a media/ink combo that you can't find an ICC profile for, and want your output to match what you see on screen as closely as possible, then it would make sense to get one made.

[drivin_me_nuts]

ehasler said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

...every time you choose a different paper/media you will need to create an ICC profile for it. This is worth the time and (little) effort required if you want to ensure consistent results.

Not really true - printers like this will normally come with ICC profiles for some papers (usually their own media), and other paper suppliers often offer their own profiles for various printer models for download on their websites.

Making your own means buying costly software/hardware (£1k+) or paying a 3rd party to do it for you, and for most people won't offer any noticeable benefit over the ones supplied with the printer. Of course, if you're using a media/ink combo that you can't find an ICC profile for, and want your output to match what you see on screen as closely as possible, then it would make sense to get one made.

. Fair point I have found that subtle variations in conditions do affect the printouts and I have found differences in the media I use from the profiles I have created and the ones I have used as supplied. The the work I do it's worth it, but for printing what I would call 'holiday snaps' then it may be a wasteful outlay

[ae111sr]

I bought a B9180 last February and had real problems getting good prints from it but all sorted now. The first thing to do is use HP Advanced Photo paper - this was my biggest mistake. I had been using Ilford Gallery paper and the ICC profile from Ilford but all my prints had too much magenta and too little green. I tried all ways to get it to work with gallery but failed. I've changed to HP paper now and I'm very happy with the results. PC is a DIY job with an iiyama TFT screen that has been calibrated with a Spyder 2. I'm now a happy bunny . This evening I've printed an A3+ (19" x 13&quot picture of a water lily and it's stunning - that one is heading for the living room wall

[cirks]

thanks for all the help so far. I have invested in some HP paper (A3+) but also have a load of Canon (and some Kodak) paper (6x4 and A4) to use up. It's this that's partly the problem - ie can't find ICC profiles for them. However, where my problems started was with the very disappointing print I did on the last 'spare' HP Advanced Paper Glossy that came with the printer. Local camera shop has also done one since on a calibrated monitor setup with a B9180 and also was surprised at the difference between what was on their screen and what emerged from the printer (they used my image). One reason I'm disappointed is that my (relatively cheap) A4 printer (Canon i865) before it packed up printed pretty acurately with absolutely no profiling or mods at all

[drivin_me_nuts]

....some here will perhaps turn their noses up but I have found that supermarket photo papers can produce really fantastic results.

For things like proof of concept I regularly use Asda Speecial Photo inkjet paper. A satin paper that about £11 for 50 (a4) sheets and produces really great results - certainly worth looking at as you start to experiment with your printer. If you are also looking at other media 'Breathing colour' do some absolutely stonkingly great papers as well as Frederix (canvas) and for the bog standard Omnijet boggo standard glossy is pretty good. Don't feel you have to stick with the papers from your printer manufacturer, others make some great products.