Impact on insurance?
Discussion
Hi all. My better half has just managed to pick up another 3 points for speeding, bringing her total to 9. She is very aware of the consequences of getting caught again so will now be crawling everywhere. However, what impact to our insurance premiums can we expect? I've no points and we're joint drivers of both our cars. Is there any benefit in moving her onto one car (though that would be a pain in the arse for many reasons)?
The maths are complicated - or rather, quite a few people don't get them!
For example, many posters will write ' my insurance did not go up with a speeding fine'...and think this is all fine and dandy. Yet their premiums may be excessively high in the first place!
I was paying 200 pounds for my car, which would increas to 235 with a SP30....and my mates could not understand this was a better deal than their 500 pounds yearly for the same car, as they still reckoned it was great ' I/we did not pay a cent more for my/our SP30'.
So what you need to do is spend an entire day on the net or phone, and get quotes...then take the cheapest, even if they do 'load' the premium due to your record.
The annoying and totally unfair thing is that while the police et al remove the points after 3 years, insurers use the fines against you for 5...so 30-40 quid increases are, in fact, 150-200 increases.
More in fact, as the premium hike is compounded by the percentage increase, too.
Just like the NCD system which does in fact destroy your wallet if you claim and often easrn the insurers much more than they pay you to settle, the increases are well hidden and far more exorbitant than we realise.
For example, many posters will write ' my insurance did not go up with a speeding fine'...and think this is all fine and dandy. Yet their premiums may be excessively high in the first place!
I was paying 200 pounds for my car, which would increas to 235 with a SP30....and my mates could not understand this was a better deal than their 500 pounds yearly for the same car, as they still reckoned it was great ' I/we did not pay a cent more for my/our SP30'.
So what you need to do is spend an entire day on the net or phone, and get quotes...then take the cheapest, even if they do 'load' the premium due to your record.
The annoying and totally unfair thing is that while the police et al remove the points after 3 years, insurers use the fines against you for 5...so 30-40 quid increases are, in fact, 150-200 increases.
More in fact, as the premium hike is compounded by the percentage increase, too.
Just like the NCD system which does in fact destroy your wallet if you claim and often easrn the insurers much more than they pay you to settle, the increases are well hidden and far more exorbitant than we realise.
It seems to me that the OFT or some other organisation should involve itself in these matters. Getting SP30s/40/50s on your license is more-or-less a lottery these days and certainly doesn't affect one's risk of having an accident, but obviously the camera businesses need to represent it as such to justify their profits. So the insurance companies, also involved with profiting from the motorist, jump onto the same gravy train and fleece us a bit more.
It's a free market though so one would hope that by being a company that doesn't increase the premiums for non-risk factors would attract more customers and encourage other companies to so the same to remain competitive.
If that doesn't work, though, I guess the OFT should investigate.
Ah, but hang on a minute. If the OFT decreed that points do not equal accidents, and insurance companies weren't allowed to charge for non risk related factors like speeding, the obvious extension would be that speed camera business wouldn't be allowed to charge money for speeding either, claiming they're targetting dangerous drivers, and then the whole basis of their scam would unravel.
ETA: Actually wouldn't this be a good angle to come from? Surely an independant body like the OFT wouldn't be able to create non-existent statistics to support increased premiums would they? Then it'd be more ammunition leading to an approach to road safety that reduces accidents.
SM
It's a free market though so one would hope that by being a company that doesn't increase the premiums for non-risk factors would attract more customers and encourage other companies to so the same to remain competitive.
If that doesn't work, though, I guess the OFT should investigate.
Ah, but hang on a minute. If the OFT decreed that points do not equal accidents, and insurance companies weren't allowed to charge for non risk related factors like speeding, the obvious extension would be that speed camera business wouldn't be allowed to charge money for speeding either, claiming they're targetting dangerous drivers, and then the whole basis of their scam would unravel.
ETA: Actually wouldn't this be a good angle to come from? Surely an independant body like the OFT wouldn't be able to create non-existent statistics to support increased premiums would they? Then it'd be more ammunition leading to an approach to road safety that reduces accidents.
SM
Edited by supermono on Saturday 10th November 08:54
jondude said:
The maths are complicated - or rather, quite a few people don't get them!
For example, many posters will write ' my insurance did not go up with a speeding fine'...and think this is all fine and dandy. Yet their premiums may be excessively high in the first place!
I was paying 200 pounds for my car, which would increas to 235 with a SP30....and my mates could not understand this was a better deal than their 500 pounds yearly for the same car, as they still reckoned it was great ' I/we did not pay a cent more for my/our SP30'.
So what you need to do is spend an entire day on the net or phone, and get quotes...then take the cheapest, even if they do 'load' the premium due to your record.
The annoying and totally unfair thing is that while the police et al remove the points after 3 years, insurers use the fines against you for 5...so 30-40 quid increases are, in fact, 150-200 increases.
More in fact, as the premium hike is compounded by the percentage increase, too.
Just like the NCD system which does in fact destroy your wallet if you claim and often easrn the insurers much more than they pay you to settle, the increases are well hidden and far more exorbitant than we realise.
Don't mean to sound rude, but are your mates stupid? Maybe you could explain to them that 500 > 2x 235? Failing that pass me their details - I've just decided to set up as an insurance broker! For example, many posters will write ' my insurance did not go up with a speeding fine'...and think this is all fine and dandy. Yet their premiums may be excessively high in the first place!
I was paying 200 pounds for my car, which would increas to 235 with a SP30....and my mates could not understand this was a better deal than their 500 pounds yearly for the same car, as they still reckoned it was great ' I/we did not pay a cent more for my/our SP30'.
So what you need to do is spend an entire day on the net or phone, and get quotes...then take the cheapest, even if they do 'load' the premium due to your record.
The annoying and totally unfair thing is that while the police et al remove the points after 3 years, insurers use the fines against you for 5...so 30-40 quid increases are, in fact, 150-200 increases.
More in fact, as the premium hike is compounded by the percentage increase, too.
Just like the NCD system which does in fact destroy your wallet if you claim and often easrn the insurers much more than they pay you to settle, the increases are well hidden and far more exorbitant than we realise.
Please check this is still true, but Frizzell (aka Liverpool Victoria) don't load for speeding points, they only want to know if a single offence resulted in a ban. What Car use them for the insurance they offer. I last got points a couple of years ago and they weren't interested in even being told.
Their rating system must be a bit wierd though, as they're either very competitive (for me) or stupidly expensive (for other people I've pointed towards them). It's a good policy though and they handled a little claim effortlessly.
Their rating system must be a bit wierd though, as they're either very competitive (for me) or stupidly expensive (for other people I've pointed towards them). It's a good policy though and they handled a little claim effortlessly.
egomeister said:
jondude said:
The maths are complicated - or rather, quite a few people don't get them!
For example, many posters will write ' my insurance did not go up with a speeding fine'...and think this is all fine and dandy. Yet their premiums may be excessively high in the first place!
I was paying 200 pounds for my car, which would increas to 235 with a SP30....and my mates could not understand this was a better deal than their 500 pounds yearly for the same car, as they still reckoned it was great ' I/we did not pay a cent more for my/our SP30'.
So what you need to do is spend an entire day on the net or phone, and get quotes...then take the cheapest, even if they do 'load' the premium due to your record.
The annoying and totally unfair thing is that while the police et al remove the points after 3 years, insurers use the fines against you for 5...so 30-40 quid increases are, in fact, 150-200 increases.
More in fact, as the premium hike is compounded by the percentage increase, too.
Just like the NCD system which does in fact destroy your wallet if you claim and often easrn the insurers much more than they pay you to settle, the increases are well hidden and far more exorbitant than we realise.
Don't mean to sound rude, but are your mates stupid? Maybe you could explain to them that 500 > 2x 235? Failing that pass me their details - I've just decided to set up as an insurance broker! For example, many posters will write ' my insurance did not go up with a speeding fine'...and think this is all fine and dandy. Yet their premiums may be excessively high in the first place!
I was paying 200 pounds for my car, which would increas to 235 with a SP30....and my mates could not understand this was a better deal than their 500 pounds yearly for the same car, as they still reckoned it was great ' I/we did not pay a cent more for my/our SP30'.
So what you need to do is spend an entire day on the net or phone, and get quotes...then take the cheapest, even if they do 'load' the premium due to your record.
The annoying and totally unfair thing is that while the police et al remove the points after 3 years, insurers use the fines against you for 5...so 30-40 quid increases are, in fact, 150-200 increases.
More in fact, as the premium hike is compounded by the percentage increase, too.
Just like the NCD system which does in fact destroy your wallet if you claim and often easrn the insurers much more than they pay you to settle, the increases are well hidden and far more exorbitant than we realise.
Too right! 
I am in a similar situation and have "acquired" nine points now.
I have and would certainly recommend that anyone in this position inform their insurers accordingly as this is a material fact subject to the insurance contract, which could result in a claim being voided if the insurers wee not informed of said fact.
Whether they will apply a loading mid term is not clear but I would expect the next renewal to be set an an increase as the points shown are used by insurers as a rating factor, whether fair or not.
Interestingly in joint insured policies where two parties are insured under the same contract, it tends to be the youngest of the two drivers that will be used as the principle rating factor and if it is the older of the two that is the points "earner", then this will have a lesser impact on the premium levied.
Kind regards.
I have and would certainly recommend that anyone in this position inform their insurers accordingly as this is a material fact subject to the insurance contract, which could result in a claim being voided if the insurers wee not informed of said fact.
Whether they will apply a loading mid term is not clear but I would expect the next renewal to be set an an increase as the points shown are used by insurers as a rating factor, whether fair or not.
Interestingly in joint insured policies where two parties are insured under the same contract, it tends to be the youngest of the two drivers that will be used as the principle rating factor and if it is the older of the two that is the points "earner", then this will have a lesser impact on the premium levied.
Kind regards.
supermono said:
Getting SP30s/40/50s on your license is more-or-less a lottery these days and certainly doesn't affect one's risk of having an accident,
No, but there is a correlation between speeding convictions and claims costs. The point being we as insurers don't have to explain WHY this is the case, we just need to prove it is. And obviously we have an awful lot of statistics 
It is similar to the modifications problem, why DOES bodykit increase claims costs far more than say bhp increase ? If you spec up a car from L to GLXI as options, you are more likely to cost insurers more than if you bought the GLXI in the first place.
Bear in mind we are not interested so much in your accident rate, but how much it costs each time. Perhaps people with speeding convictions are going faster when the have accidents, and thus damage more of other people's property and squishy bits ?
Women drivers fall into this category, they don't statistically have less accidents, they just tend to cost less per accident.
Noger said:
No, but there is a correlation between speeding convictions and claims costs.
That's an astonishingly unbelievable claim to make. Can you provide some basis for this? You don't need to explain why, as you said. To keep it simple I'm only interested in the driver with a single SP30 compared with one with a clean license.
SM
jez-m said:
Hi all. My better half has just managed to pick up another 3 points for speeding, bringing her total to 9. She is very aware of the consequences of getting caught again so will now be crawling everywhere. However, what impact to our insurance premiums can we expect? I've no points and we're joint drivers of both our cars. Is there any benefit in moving her onto one car (though that would be a pain in the arse for many reasons)?
I am assuming she's paying the uplift!!The french insurance system I worked on asked for number of days suspension of licence in the last 3 years. And you can get on the spot suspension. That was AGF/Allianz. And I know AXA do the same.
The estimate of increased likelihood of an accident following an SP30 is about 8-12%.
The problem is that the rise in speed cameras mean that people in the " a few points" category are now the norm. Hence the rise in insurers "ignoring" the first few.
It isn't that they are ignored, it is just they are not being used to identify risk groups anymore.
The estimate of increased likelihood of an accident following an SP30 is about 8-12%.
The problem is that the rise in speed cameras mean that people in the " a few points" category are now the norm. Hence the rise in insurers "ignoring" the first few.
It isn't that they are ignored, it is just they are not being used to identify risk groups anymore.
Vesuvius 996 said:
I am assuming she's paying the uplift!!
Hmmm, that's a conversation we're yet to have! She is buying a Snooper of equivalent though.I wouldn't mind so much if she's been caught by a human instead of one of those large, well sign posted, bright yellow camera things...
I'm curious to know why my quotes have increased by around 10% following a non-fault claim that has gone through the third party insurer? It seems that I am now a greater risk because someone drove into the back of me while I was stopped at the lights.
Edited by firstmk1 on Monday 12th November 21:00
firstmk1 said:
I'm curious to know why my quotes have increased by around 10% following a non-fault claim that has gone through the third party insurer?
And so you might be, as am I. A friend once had a car damaged by a third party whilst parked, and dealt with the claim himself without any reference to her own insurance company (Stevie Wonder's company paid). When I said she should report it she said they can go bollox, why should she give them the opportunity to increase her premiums when she wasn't even in the car. When pressed she said perhaps I should report it also, since I was involved just like her by not driving the car at the time either.Very interested in the legal position she'd be in if she claimed in future and failed to disclose the damage.
Could they really defend a non-payment of a claim on this basis? Would they have to prove in court that this information would have affected the risk? I sure hope so. If anything her risk profile is improved as she'll think of f-wits more when she parks in future.
SM
jez-m said:
Hi all. My better half has just managed to pick up another 3 points for speeding, bringing her total to 9. She is very aware of the consequences of getting caught again so will now be crawling everywhere. However, what impact to our insurance premiums can we expect? I've no points and we're joint drivers of both our cars. Is there any benefit in moving her onto one car (though that would be a pain in the arse for many reasons)?
Yes, prepare her to be shunted from behind 
Many insurance companies can be quite realistic about 'bog standard' speeding convictions - they understand the roadside cashpoint scams as much as we all do. They only load for the heavy stuff. I was mortified to have six points once [for 'real world' irrelevant trivialities] and they didnt charge me any more for my insurance.
BB
firstmk1 said:
I'm curious to know why my quotes have increased by around 10% following a non-fault claim that has gone through the third party insurer?
Your insurance has a no claims policy, and not a no blame policy.So, even if it's not your fault, your premium will still go up as you were involved in an accident.
The insurance company does not lose, or they would not bother anymore, and chill out on a beach somewhere hot.
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