Discussion
My wife was radar-gunned doing 44 in a 30 limit and ticketed. She drove home (15 miles away) where she was phoned by the policeman who said there was a 'discrepancy' over the incident, and that he needed to visit her. He and a colleague turned up later in the day and changed her copy of the ticket,plus his own, in the surname line. They had originally inserted her middle name and not her surname there, which they corrected.
Was the ticket invalid when issued, and if so, are they allowed to change it in this way?
PS They never visit if we are burgled, but 2 policemen spent over an hour changing the ticket!
Was the ticket invalid when issued, and if so, are they allowed to change it in this way?
PS They never visit if we are burgled, but 2 policemen spent over an hour changing the ticket!
RoadsterJo said:Not necessarily. In purely legal terms (ie. nothing to do with right & wrong) the question is: "if a legal document is filled in incorrectly, does it cease to be a legal document?"
Just to clarify speeding is illegal - an error in filling a form in happens
That is the question here, not the alleged morality of speeding.
(M'Lud)
I'd also add that if I had a contract with a client and that client wanted to amend that contract (a legal document) then it would have to be with the consent of both parties - it cannot be unilateral.
It is an interesting legal debate as to what the ramifications of refusing to allow the amendment would have been.
Madcop?
BobTheBench? 
Ruling please!
It is an interesting legal debate as to what the ramifications of refusing to allow the amendment would have been.
Madcop?
BobTheBench? Ruling please! Okay, Okay - you do go on...
My understanding is that a form has to be filled in correctly for any kind of ticket to stick. I had a mate who was stuck on for not wearing a seatbelt - on getting to the station to show the relevant documents the lady on the desk ripped the ticket up as she spotted an error (wrong model of vehicle completed) and said it was invalid...
I still think we should help out upholders of the law in completing the relevant paperwork and put our hands up and foot down as appropriate.
My understanding is that a form has to be filled in correctly for any kind of ticket to stick. I had a mate who was stuck on for not wearing a seatbelt - on getting to the station to show the relevant documents the lady on the desk ripped the ticket up as she spotted an error (wrong model of vehicle completed) and said it was invalid...
I still think we should help out upholders of the law in completing the relevant paperwork and put our hands up and foot down as appropriate.
JonRB said:
I'd also add that if I had a contract with a client and that client wanted to amend that contract (a legal document) then it would have to be with the consent of both parties - it cannot be unilateral.
It is an interesting legal debate as to what the ramifications of refusing to allow the amendment would have been.
Madcop?
These are Conditional Offers of Fixed Penalty. If you accept the offer, you accept it warts and all. So if you pay the £60, get three points, matter is finished. No disputes, no challenges, no appeal. If the offer is withdrawn before you accept it - too bad. If the cops then issue a new, similar but amended offer, start all over again.
Bottom line is there was no contract. There was an unaccepted offer. You only accept when you tender your licence for endorsement and pay the £60.
Remember though, if you don't take up the offer, the COFP has no legal relevance in any future prosecution. The cops turn up in court, identify the accused, and say "We say her doing ... in a ... limit" - Guilty. There is no mileage in trying to argue that at the time the cops didn't know her full name, but now they do. Might be a line in arguing that cops were so inept they didn't know what they were doing in filling in a name on the form, how could they be sure they were working a complicated piece of electronic machinery right ? Cast doubt on their credibility. Not the strongest of cases I would hear in court though.
RoadsterJo said:
Okay, Okay - you do go on...
I still think we should help out upholders of the law in completing the relevant paperwork and put our hands up and foot down as appropriate.
Currently I take the view that if I get caught for speeding its my fault, and thats tough. However as I haven't been caught yet my views might change if/when I am!
However I do think my attitude would tend to depend on the speed I was doing, the time of day, the road and traffic conditions, and how I was caught.
If I was stopped by real life policeman I would tend to view that I deserved it as I feel they are more likely to be speed chacking at genuine traffic blackspots, or are lilkely to have been following me for some time and I should have seen them!
If I was caught by a camera my attitude is likely to be different due to it having no discretion, although again it may be a bit dependent on my speed.
Fixed cameras though should generally be visible so I'd be kicking myself for not spotting it. Mobile cameras are more difficult because they can see you before you see them!
I can understand that this is a great topic to talk about and will invite answers of all sorts.
I can say from experience that its quite difficult to fill out these forms (if your new to it) accurately and mistakes have been made by every Police Officer at one time or another.
I would say that this (these) officers were "brave" in tracking you down at your home address in order to rectfy the problem. Some will and some definately wouldnt.
I take your point about getting 2 Officers to rectify the ticket and consequently when you have been Burgled then no one attends....it sadly affects us all.
All that i can say is "you have people to cook the meals and others to eat it".
In other words, from the Burglary side of things, then the box of reporting Officers was obviously empty YET again.
I can say from experience that its quite difficult to fill out these forms (if your new to it) accurately and mistakes have been made by every Police Officer at one time or another.
I would say that this (these) officers were "brave" in tracking you down at your home address in order to rectfy the problem. Some will and some definately wouldnt.
I take your point about getting 2 Officers to rectify the ticket and consequently when you have been Burgled then no one attends....it sadly affects us all.
All that i can say is "you have people to cook the meals and others to eat it".
In other words, from the Burglary side of things, then the box of reporting Officers was obviously empty YET again.
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