Discussion
Hello all
Great to read the DAS blog of Nimbus - I am in the same siutation. Did my CBT last week and loved it - had a go on the 500 also and have booked my DAS + test for beginning of Dec.
I'd really like to get a bike quite quickly and love the raw muscle bikes - currently looking at 1200 Bandit, XJS 1300 or GSX 1400
Problem is that I am concerned they could be too much too soon?? Is there a rle to this - I am sure most will say start with a 600?? However, I regard myself as reasonably sensible and if possible would like to buy my dream bike straight away?
What do you guys think?
Simon
Great to read the DAS blog of Nimbus - I am in the same siutation. Did my CBT last week and loved it - had a go on the 500 also and have booked my DAS + test for beginning of Dec.
I'd really like to get a bike quite quickly and love the raw muscle bikes - currently looking at 1200 Bandit, XJS 1300 or GSX 1400
Problem is that I am concerned they could be too much too soon?? Is there a rle to this - I am sure most will say start with a 600?? However, I regard myself as reasonably sensible and if possible would like to buy my dream bike straight away?
What do you guys think?
Simon
6000 will be enought for you for at least a year. I bought a 600 fazer which I am selling now I have been riding over a year
. now I have been told my fazer is a Commuter bike, but its very very quick. I have drove a few quick cars plus my Kit car but the fazer is another thing. its very quick and I'm not a small guy (6ft 2" and 15 stone)
its was a great bike to get miles under my belt, used to riding all weather as I was also commuting to work. and gave me confidance after passing my DAS a year Oct past
you will not need a ltr or bigger to start with and may be too much.
To add I am getting a Speed triple in March and after 18months of riding feel I have enought experance to ride a bloody fast bike, But only just
as they say "don't run before you can walk"
hope that helps
. now I have been told my fazer is a Commuter bike, but its very very quick. I have drove a few quick cars plus my Kit car but the fazer is another thing. its very quick and I'm not a small guy (6ft 2" and 15 stone)its was a great bike to get miles under my belt, used to riding all weather as I was also commuting to work. and gave me confidance after passing my DAS a year Oct past
you will not need a ltr or bigger to start with and may be too much.
To add I am getting a Speed triple in March and after 18months of riding feel I have enought experance to ride a bloody fast bike, But only just
as they say "don't run before you can walk"
hope that helps
I passed my DAS earlier this year, and had the same thoughts as you. I asked advice from friends and my instructor. After weighing it all up I got a FZS Fazer 600. Great bike and as fast as you need, well initally ! As im experiencing learning to ride properly starts after you have passed the test, I would advice a 600 for a while, just my opinion. Hope it all goes well and you get a good bike.
All the best.
All the best.
I bought my first bike back in April, a ZX6R. I think it was the right bike as it is very progressive (some would say slow) up to 7000rpm, and for a while I didn't feel the need to go past that. It also meant I didn't scare myself if I open the throttle a bit much out of a turn, as the bike wouldn't just shoot away. Now that I am used to it, I rarely let it under 8000rpm, and it is very quick indeed...
I had a ride on my dad's 1100zrx back in september, and the extra power and low down torque make it a much smoother ride, and very manageable after a few months on a 600, but it might have been a little too much straight from the off...
I had a ride on my dad's 1100zrx back in september, and the extra power and low down torque make it a much smoother ride, and very manageable after a few months on a 600, but it might have been a little too much straight from the off...
Personally I went straight to a ZRX1100, great bike just a tad pretty as some so and so keyed it just recently. The bottom line is just ride to your comfort zone and as long as you remember the extra power and braking ability you have on larger bikes you cannot go wrong. Get whatever you feel comfortable with.
I got a Jap 600 as my first bike but i only did 600 miles on it before I got fed up with rampaging up and down the gearbox so I traded it in for a 1050 Triple. The extra torque makes it a very easy ride and suits the way I want to ride the bike.
Test ride a few after your test and get what suits you best.
Test ride a few after your test and get what suits you best.
Any bike you get of more than about 500cc, or even smaller, will be more capable than you are so whether you don’t use all of a 600 or don’t use all of a 1400 makes little difference. The smaller bikes will be easier because that are physically lighter. This may be important as it is quite likely that you will drop the bike while maneuvering at slow speed. (Walking pace or less). – Most newbies do! However, if a 1400 is what you want and you are happy to handle the extra physical size, then go for it.
One thing I would strongly suggest is that you try a number of different bikes before you decide. While you may like the looks of muscle bikes, you may find that riding them is not for you or that you find the positioning of the bars/pegs/seat just don’t fit your size/shape. Likewise, you may find the revvy nature of a 600 sports bike better suits your style or that a slow revving big twin is more to your liking. Until you try, you wont know.
Whichever you choose, ride safe and enjoy.
One thing I would strongly suggest is that you try a number of different bikes before you decide. While you may like the looks of muscle bikes, you may find that riding them is not for you or that you find the positioning of the bars/pegs/seat just don’t fit your size/shape. Likewise, you may find the revvy nature of a 600 sports bike better suits your style or that a slow revving big twin is more to your liking. Until you try, you wont know.
Whichever you choose, ride safe and enjoy.
ive just got a gsx1400 6 weeks ago after 8 months on a RF600. if im honest i reckon i would have crashed the gsx if i went straight on it. it is just so damn fast without trying id have got into trouble before i realised.
if i was you id try a few bikes once you pass & see what suits. a 600 bandit for instance looks similar but wont get you into trouble as quick.
wahtever you get though, have fun.
if i was you id try a few bikes once you pass & see what suits. a 600 bandit for instance looks similar but wont get you into trouble as quick.
wahtever you get though, have fun.
Another point if it matters: fuel economy on some of the bigger bikes is little better than average cars. I can get my 1300 down to 22 mpg without trying too hard. Well OK, 120 with the screen up, bolt upright... down my driveway of course... does tend to knacker the average which is about 41mpg. I'd expect to see 60+ from a 600 (I was getting that from unfaired 550s on carbs in the '80s).
In my day (steam-age) we passed our test and went 125 250 500 big.
You can kill yourself on a 250 no problem, 500 it's easy, 750 it's very quick, 1 litre+ it's instant. Don't hurry.
600's are heaps of fun, chuckable, cheap. I'd recommend a CBR600, very forgiving, brake whilst leaning over, reliable, fun.
You can kill yourself on a 250 no problem, 500 it's easy, 750 it's very quick, 1 litre+ it's instant. Don't hurry.
600's are heaps of fun, chuckable, cheap. I'd recommend a CBR600, very forgiving, brake whilst leaning over, reliable, fun.
I got a new 600 Honda Hornet as my first bike earlier this year. Do NOT take any notice of anyone who says (including possibly your own ego!) a 600 isn't quick enough. I own some very, very quick cars and up to 120 ish it'll live with or even outperform most of them. However it's not in straight line performance that the dangers lie IMO but in corners, basic road craft and awareness etc etc and I feel a lighter more physically manageable bike like a 600 gives you time to concentrate on these. All in my own - very limited compared with others on here - experience that is.
Finally I've got a 'mature' friend who has been riding since he was a kid both on road, off road and on track and he took his son's 600 Bandit to a track day where I watched him comprehensively dust a lot of much 'faster' bigger kit. On road he's awsomely quick too, but makes it look so smooth and safe. It ain't what you've got but how you use it as they say
Finally I've got a 'mature' friend who has been riding since he was a kid both on road, off road and on track and he took his son's 600 Bandit to a track day where I watched him comprehensively dust a lot of much 'faster' bigger kit. On road he's awsomely quick too, but makes it look so smooth and safe. It ain't what you've got but how you use it as they sayOrdinary Bloke said:
In my day (steam-age) we passed our test and went 125 250 500 big.
You can kill yourself on a 250 no problem, 500 it's easy, 750 it's very quick, 1 litre+ it's instant. Don't hurry...
Ditto You can kill yourself on a 250 no problem, 500 it's easy, 750 it's very quick, 1 litre+ it's instant. Don't hurry...
Ultimately, if everyone stayed within their limits they could all jump on R1's at 16. In reality though, we all push the limits occasionally (then read above).
Learners used to ride 250's which was then dropped to 125 to cut down on the number of deaths. Direct Access had bypassed this rule and now allows you to leapfrog straight to anything you want. Personally I think this is dangerous.
I see a lot of posts from riders saying that they've done Direct Access and went from no bike to a 600 for a year to gain experience, then after a year (probably 1-2000 dry Sunday miles) got an R1 as they were OK to handle the power now
In my day this would have seemed utterly insane, but in today's get-it-now, 0% credit world, it seems to be the norm. Gone are the days when financial constraints meant a gentle progression up the range and now 1 litre bikes seem the norm in the first year
I would always recommend patience and although it's not cool, a 250, then 5/600, then big bike. Anything else is dicing with trouble in my opinion.
Todays rider are generally older, wiser and have families etc, so are more careful, but it only takes one mis-judgement to launch an R1 into a car/hedge/wall etc as many on here will testify.
Be patient and it will make you a better rider
m3psm said:
Ultimately, if everyone stayed within their limits they could all jump on R1's at 16. In reality though, we all push the limits occasionally (then read above).
Learners used to ride 250's which was then dropped to 125 to cut down on the number of deaths. Direct Access had bypassed this rule and now allows you to leapfrog straight to anything you want. Personally I think this is dangerous.
I see a lot of posts from riders saying that they've done Direct Access and went from no bike to a 600 for a year to gain experience, then after a year (probably 1-2000 dry Sunday miles) got an R1 as they were OK to handle the power now
In my day this would have seemed utterly insane, but in today's get-it-now, 0% credit world, it seems to be the norm. Gone are the days when financial constraints meant a gentle progression up the range and now 1 litre bikes seem the norm in the first year
I would always recommend patience and although it's not cool, a 250, then 5/600, then big bike. Anything else is dicing with trouble in my opinion.
Todays rider are generally older, wiser and have families etc, so are more careful, but it only takes one mis-judgement to launch an R1 into a car/hedge/wall etc as many on here will testify.
Be patient and it will make you a better rider
By suggesting that people use the capacity/performance of the bike to make up for their misjudgement I think you are missing a couple of fundamental points.Learners used to ride 250's which was then dropped to 125 to cut down on the number of deaths. Direct Access had bypassed this rule and now allows you to leapfrog straight to anything you want. Personally I think this is dangerous.
I see a lot of posts from riders saying that they've done Direct Access and went from no bike to a 600 for a year to gain experience, then after a year (probably 1-2000 dry Sunday miles) got an R1 as they were OK to handle the power now
In my day this would have seemed utterly insane, but in today's get-it-now, 0% credit world, it seems to be the norm. Gone are the days when financial constraints meant a gentle progression up the range and now 1 litre bikes seem the norm in the first year
I would always recommend patience and although it's not cool, a 250, then 5/600, then big bike. Anything else is dicing with trouble in my opinion.
Todays rider are generally older, wiser and have families etc, so are more careful, but it only takes one mis-judgement to launch an R1 into a car/hedge/wall etc as many on here will testify.
Be patient and it will make you a better rider
A misjudgement on a bike of any capacity has the potential to launch you into a car/hedge/wall.
Modern 400s are putting out similar power levels to 650’s & 750’s of the late 70’s/early 80’s (without the weight the old bikes had to carry) when the 125cc learner restriction came in so comparing capacity is nothing more than focussing on an arbitrary number.
DAS direct access to larger bikes is only available to those who are older (and hopefully more mature) thus are considerably more likely to understand their own limitations than the average 17 year old passing his test on a 125.
There is no one, however experienced, who is able to ride a modern sports thou to anywhere near it’s capabilities on the roads. In fact, I would suggest that there is no one able to ride a modern sports 600 to anywhere near it’s capabilities on the road. As such, we are ALL having to ride within our own limits rather than those of the bikes. Newbies are no different.
Rather than concentrating on the irrelevant capacity of the bike a new rider chooses I would always recommend that a rider gets the bike they are happy with, for the reasons they want but on the understanding that whatever that bike, it will almost certainly be able to do more than they can! I always recommend that everyone also takes advanced road based training as this is the ONLY totally proven method of reducing the risks to any rider, new or experienced.
black-k1 said:
...Rather than concentrating on the irrelevant capacity of the bike a new rider chooses I would always recommend that a rider gets the bike they are happy with, for the reasons they want but on the understanding that whatever that bike, it will almost certainly be able to do more than they can! I always recommend that everyone also takes advanced road based training as this is the ONLY totally proven method of reducing the risks to any rider, new or experienced.
In principle I agree with what you're saying, especially considering the difference in power and weight of modern bikes and nobody reaching the bikes limits on the road.I do not believe though that you can credit a keen rider with the level of self-control you're suggesting. I also believe you learn a massive amount when you have to think about how much (or little) power you have to hand.
The accelleration difference between a 600 and a 1000 can be night and day and I believe is too much for someone with limited experience.
I know I am the minority in my thinking and also that Direct Access is responsible for the resurection of the biking industry here, but every single day I see levels of riding that are truly shocking which are almost always from new bike bike riders.
black-k1 said:
Rather than concentrating on the irrelevant capacity of the bike a new rider chooses I would always recommend that a rider gets the bike they are happy with, for the reasons they want but on the understanding that whatever that bike, it will almost certainly be able to do more than they can! I always recommend that everyone also takes advanced road based training as this is the ONLY totally proven method of reducing the risks to any rider, new or experienced.
I recently started a thread under 'moving up to a Superbike' (currently running alongside this one I think) and this para from black-k1 is the most sensible thing I've read - particularly the capacity thing. It's clarified a lot of things for me in one statement and I'm now going to choose my next bike without carrying around a whole layer of unessecary questions in my head. Cheers!Edited by Pugsey on Monday 12th November 09:49
Get a 600 Hornet or the like. My hornet's fun, reliable, fast and versatile. I've used it every day for a year without a hiccup, and done 3000 miles round Europe fully laden with cargo and my fat harris.
All in I've done 12,000 miles since my DAS, and still not sure I'm ready for a bigger bike. No, that's not true - I'm sure that I'm not ready. Until I'm scraping pegs at will (and i know this is not a great test of skill) fully understand the bike and can contol it under braking, accelleration, cornering and gear changing I wouldn't consider myself safe enough to have a larger bike. Yes, it's good to challenge yourself, but for me the 600 is still challenge enough. The impulse for a bigger bike is currently 'I want, i want, i want' and not 'I need, I need'.
Perhaps I'm just a pussy, but i don't think so: I'm an advanced driver with years of high power four wheel driving behind me, and was downhill biker nuts enough that i had to stop to stay alive. I have good coordination and tend to pick things up quickly. The desire for a big bike is strong, but i think that it would be madness to go DAS to litre bike. In fact, one of my mates just got himself a litre bike this weekend having had sports bikes for more than 10 years, and he's been unable to take it past about 10k revs as yet, as it's "insanely fast". What our heart wants and what our heads can manage are not the same thing.
So, anyway, i sincerely believe that taking the time to get to know a bike, and then going up the power scale is the way to safe, gratifying, smooth riding.
Juast my tuppence.
All in I've done 12,000 miles since my DAS, and still not sure I'm ready for a bigger bike. No, that's not true - I'm sure that I'm not ready. Until I'm scraping pegs at will (and i know this is not a great test of skill) fully understand the bike and can contol it under braking, accelleration, cornering and gear changing I wouldn't consider myself safe enough to have a larger bike. Yes, it's good to challenge yourself, but for me the 600 is still challenge enough. The impulse for a bigger bike is currently 'I want, i want, i want' and not 'I need, I need'.
Perhaps I'm just a pussy, but i don't think so: I'm an advanced driver with years of high power four wheel driving behind me, and was downhill biker nuts enough that i had to stop to stay alive. I have good coordination and tend to pick things up quickly. The desire for a big bike is strong, but i think that it would be madness to go DAS to litre bike. In fact, one of my mates just got himself a litre bike this weekend having had sports bikes for more than 10 years, and he's been unable to take it past about 10k revs as yet, as it's "insanely fast". What our heart wants and what our heads can manage are not the same thing.
So, anyway, i sincerely believe that taking the time to get to know a bike, and then going up the power scale is the way to safe, gratifying, smooth riding.
Juast my tuppence.
just depends how much right wrist action you like, being married and old I don't jerk it open but am smooth and controlled 
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