33MPH in a 30 and ticket throught the post!!!
Discussion
My work colleague received a ticket from Manc police lat week for 33 in a 30, 'caught' on a gatso. I feel this is pretty harsh, especially as I'm sure the guidelines are 10% plus 2MPH....he was just doing 10%. No offer to take a course, just 3 points and £60! He already has 6 points which will mean one more and its bus pass time.
Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
sinly said:
My work colleague received a ticket from Manc police lat week for 33 in a 30, 'caught' on a gatso. I feel this is pretty harsh, especially as I'm sure the guidelines are 10% plus 2MPH....he was just doing 10%. No offer to take a course, just 3 points and £60! He already has 6 points which will mean one more and its bus pass time.
Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
Regardess of whether it is 10% or 10% +2mph, the ACPO guidelines raises the limit. So even if the limit is forty no prosecution should take place unless it is over 44mph.Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
I challenged an NIP on this, and other matters, and heard nothing more.
sinly said:
My work colleague received a ticket from Manc police lat week for 33 in a 30, 'caught' on a gatso. I feel this is pretty harsh, especially as I'm sure the guidelines are 10% plus 2MPH....he was just doing 10%. No offer to take a course, just 3 points and £60! He already has 6 points which will mean one more and its bus pass time.
Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
Draconian though it is, unfortunately your colleague has little grounds for contesting. Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
Guidelines are just that. Not legal definitions of what is/isn't acceptable.
Regarding speedometer accuracy, AFAIK speedo's can underread by up to about 14% but not overread at all. Taking that into account, at whatever speed your speedo is showing, you will be travelling at or below that speed. THerefore if you're caught exceeding the limit, your speedo will have been indicating more than the limit.
Just for the record, being nicked for 33 in a 30 is ridiculous IMO. The law's the law, I know, but surely this is something where a little discretion wouldn't go amiss.
So the speedo calibration isn't one to argue with (not had time to trawl internet finding this out if its a well known fact) but the problem here is that its logged/on the system, and so assume if the 10%+ are just guidelines, then really not much that can be done, although I'm sure a specialist lawyer would have a trick up his/her sleeve. I'm sure 99.99% of police with a radar gun would not stop someone for 33, but suppose machines just auto generate the tickets!?
Not my 'problem' at the end of the day, but does get me angry!!
Not my 'problem' at the end of the day, but does get me angry!!
I just got gatsoed for 35 in a 30. First offence in 20 yrs driving, my bro is a BiB and thinks I will get offered a course by Thames Valley. I am very observant of fixed cameras, but this one was at Paices Hill, Aldermaston and disguised from my googling a green colour. I knew it was there but had forgoten about it.
MiniMac said:
However, doesn't the front page of the 'guidelines' say something along the lines of 'must be adhered to at all times, or the integrity of the system will be compromised' or some other such nonsense.
Or am I barmy?
You might be mixing the automated enforcement code of practice, with the speed enforcement guidelines. The automated enforcement code of practice, doesn't stipulate what action should be taken at what speed. It's the speed enforcement guidelines that do.Or am I barmy?
The guidelines state quite clearly, that the Police do not have to wait until 10% +2mph over the limit before taking action. They state that action can take place before that & if action hasn't been taken by 10%+2mph over the limit, then it should (unless exceptional circumstances exist) result in at least a FPN.
In other words, as far as ACPO's policy is concerned. Unless exceptional circumstances apply, everyone caught doing 10% +2mph or more over the limit should at least be issued with a FPN & anyone else below that point should also get at least a FPN, if the officer deems it necessary in the circumstances & it's capable of proof.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 11th November 22:38
Christ ..3mph on my speedo is the width of the needle when viewed straight on (according tomy GPS)... I would be asking for court time and writing a shitty letter if it were me.. indicating that whilst you were "trying" to keep to the speed limit wandering by 10% is very harsh ... the time you checked your mirrors and blind spots most modern cars could gain 10% of the speed they were travelling in as "driver error" and hope you get a sympathetic judge
jvaughan said:
Christ ..3mph on my speedo is the width of the needle when viewed straight on (according tomy GPS)... I would be asking for court time and writing a shitty letter if it were me.. indicating that whilst you were "trying" to keep to the speed limit wandering by 10% is very harsh ... the time you checked your mirrors and blind spots most modern cars could gain 10% of the speed they were travelling in as "driver error" and hope you get a sympathetic judge
They can only be sympathetic on sentence really, not outcome.They'll have to apply the law there.
Surprised he didn't get offered a 'How to drive at the speed limits' chat instead, like AA but for 'child killers'. 3MPH over is a big tightly monitored, but I guess that would be 35MPH on a speedo or there about.
Personally I always thought it was 10% plus 1MPH and that they were only guidelines. It is up to the county's police for opting to follow this or not.
I don't think that there is anything he could do about it. Take it to court if you like but I wouldn't like to hear the out come.
Now my 87 in a 70 was tight
Barstewards.
David
Personally I always thought it was 10% plus 1MPH and that they were only guidelines. It is up to the county's police for opting to follow this or not.
I don't think that there is anything he could do about it. Take it to court if you like but I wouldn't like to hear the out come.
Now my 87 in a 70 was tight
Barstewards.David
japhilip][ ... said:
Regarding speedometer accuracy, AFAIK speedo's can underread by up to about 14% but not overread at all.
By law, speedometers must be accurate or OVER-READ (by up to 10%, IRCC), not under-read (i.e if the true speed is 30mph, the speedometer must read between 30 and 33, not less than 30) - StreakyThere was that recent case on here of a poster getting an NIP for 76 on a 70 DC in Kent. They wrote to the scammers (helped that the scammers published the threshold speed on their website) and the charge was dropped.
I certainly would not bend over and get the vaseline out as certain posters suggest - at least not until contacting the scammers - 33 is reasonable for a blip whilst endeavouring to keep to the limit.
The ACPO guidelines are generally upheld by the scammers or I would not be in possession of a clean licence despite driving a fair mileage!
I certainly would not bend over and get the vaseline out as certain posters suggest - at least not until contacting the scammers - 33 is reasonable for a blip whilst endeavouring to keep to the limit.
The ACPO guidelines are generally upheld by the scammers or I would not be in possession of a clean licence despite driving a fair mileage!
jvaughan said:
Christ ..3mph on my speedo is the width of the needle when viewed straight on (according tomy GPS)... I would be asking for court time and writing a shitty letter if it were me.. indicating that whilst you were "trying" to keep to the speed limit wandering by 10% is very harsh ... the time you checked your mirrors and blind spots most modern cars could gain 10% of the speed they were travelling in as "driver error" and hope you get a sympathetic judge
If this made use of police time then I'm sure that most police would ignore it. After all, they ignore dreadful behaviour in towns every Friday and Saturday night. But because it's automated and costs the police nothing, they might as well send out the NIP. It really is sad.In the meantime, really dangerous drivers ARE being ignored because it costs police time.
I would write and bug them for replies and explanations. You may never hear again.
I may be wrong, but I think this may be more a case of the police trying it on for trying it on's sake. For example, send 100 of these fines to hard working taxpayers, and about 60-70 or so WILL pay with no argument, so why not?
It is a gamble, yes - but I kinda think a letter reminding them of guidelines and that this is why you will not pay, may well be the end of it.
The police know this is a bit risky to take to court, and if they lose the support of the courts in their area, that is not good.
Of course, they may well know that the magistrates in their area are all members of the green party and haters of cars, so you will indeed go down!!!
I may be wrong, but I think this may be more a case of the police trying it on for trying it on's sake. For example, send 100 of these fines to hard working taxpayers, and about 60-70 or so WILL pay with no argument, so why not?
It is a gamble, yes - but I kinda think a letter reminding them of guidelines and that this is why you will not pay, may well be the end of it.
The police know this is a bit risky to take to court, and if they lose the support of the courts in their area, that is not good.
Of course, they may well know that the magistrates in their area are all members of the green party and haters of cars, so you will indeed go down!!!
sinly said:
My work colleague received a ticket from Manc police lat week for 33 in a 30, 'caught' on a gatso. I feel this is pretty harsh, especially as I'm sure the guidelines are 10% plus 2MPH....he was just doing 10%. No offer to take a course, just 3 points and £60! He already has 6 points which will mean one more and its bus pass time.
Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
They just set up a Speed Aware.. cut off 35 mph. Appreciate speeding over the limit is speeding irrespective of how much, but surely there must be an argument that the speedometer could be out of calibration etc. Notice says that if you are to contest, then it will be through the courts....any advise on this one please guys/girls!?
Shades of LanCASH£££££££££re over again. I would be challenging this especially if no offer of course. They made biggest PR thing in MEN last August -ish about it.
Check speed limit too. As far as am aware - they not enforcing residential 20 mph in Manchester area.
Also .. go to the local MEN with your NIP und the tabloids too to show up the GREED element of this .. along with photo of road in question here.
Also send copy to lieben Paulie Smith at Safespeed. He can make waves on bad PR for them und good PR for him und the rest of us rebels
on this story as well. 
Whilst the offence is complete at 30.01mph, ACPO whilst laying down enforcement guidelines, retracts these in their document so that they can have it both ways. 3 mph over at 30 is draconian in my view (unless in the area of a school or other outstanding feature needing special safety measure) and hardly covers the width of a needle as stated.
I would be tempted to write back asking that they check their record and printer (a badly printed 8 can look like a 3?) and if printer in order draw their attention to the ACPO rule 10% + 2 which advises prosecution 35 onwards. For consistency the majority of forces follow these rules. N Wales could be an exception I would gather?
If they insist on continuing then query the availability of a speed awareness course?
dvd
I would be tempted to write back asking that they check their record and printer (a badly printed 8 can look like a 3?) and if printer in order draw their attention to the ACPO rule 10% + 2 which advises prosecution 35 onwards. For consistency the majority of forces follow these rules. N Wales could be an exception I would gather?
If they insist on continuing then query the availability of a speed awareness course?
dvd
Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 12th November 08:52
I think the key point is that the guy already has 6 points... The guidelines indicate that 'persistent offenders' should not be offered courses or leniency. I attended one of these speed education courses after a 36 in a 30 (when guidelines were 10% +3), and we were told in no uncertain terms that the offer of a course rather than points only happens once, so therefore I assume my licence was 'tagged' electronically to show I'd already done a course and not to offer another. And I'm sure it was no coincidence that the 14 of us on the course all had clean driving licences...
PS: the course was actually very good!
PS: the course was actually very good!
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