Starter / earth question

[DaveR]

Edited highlights:

Press black button, starter makes tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick noise. Interior lights flickering so I assume it’s drawing some current and problem is mechanical. Starter sent off for re-furb.

Refit re-furbed starter. Same prob.

Refurb guy assures me that starter was tested on their test bed and certified as OK before it left them and suggests maybe bad earth.

I’ve now had the battery out, cleaned up terminals, cleaned up everything on the positive route via the 100A fuse and cleaned up the earth point on the chassis to where the earth lead from the battery connects. Even ran a parallel earth via a jump lead to earh point while battery was out.

No joy.

I noticed that where the battery earth lead connectd the chassis, there are two other earth leads anchored to the same point. Anyone know where these go? Obviously the starter’s earth path is the bell housing but is this earted via the engine mounts or is one of the aforementioned earth leads the earth to the engine/clutch assembly? If so, to whereabouts is it bolted?

Car currently on gravel and I can’t get under it so difficult to follow the leads myself.

Thanks in advance.

Dave.

[Buffoon]

Don't know answer to your question, but you mention using a parallel lead from earth stud to battery. That proves one lead. You need to run a lead from neg batt terminal to engine block, as you do not mention cleaning up the engine's earth.

Hope you get it sorted

[marcus1970]

DaveR said:

Edited highlights:

Press black button, starter makes tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick noise. Interior lights flickering so I assume it’s drawing some current and problem is mechanical. Starter sent off for re-furb.

Refit re-furbed starter. Same prob.

Refurb guy assures me that starter was tested on their test bed and certified as OK before it left them and suggests maybe bad earth.

I’ve now had the battery out, cleaned up terminals, cleaned up everything on the positive route via the 100A fuse and cleaned up the earth point on the chassis to where the earth lead from the battery connects. Even ran a parallel earth via a jump lead to earh point while battery was out.

No joy.

I noticed that where the battery earth lead connectd the chassis, there are two other earth leads anchored to the same point. Anyone know where these go? Obviously the starter’s earth path is the bell housing but is this earted via the engine mounts or is one of the aforementioned earth leads the earth to the engine/clutch assembly? If so, to whereabouts is it bolted?

Car currently on gravel and I can’t get under it so difficult to follow the leads myself.

Thanks in advance.

Dave.

Get some jump leads on it and use the power of another car to get the starter going . It sounds like your battery is low on juice.

I had this on mine just after I'd changed the starter and jump leads did the trick.

MB

[DaveR]

Thanks for the suggestion but the battery's fine and I've already tried jumping it off another car. Sadly not that simple!

[Nefarious]

Try "hot-wiring" the starter by touching the third terminal on the back of the starter solaniod to live. If it fires enthusiastically, then you know the problem is in the wiring. If it's still reluctant, then it's a battery/starter problem.

If it's a switching circuit problem, then perhaps look to the immobiliser as a culprit - remover the helmet holder, and follow the black wires back to the junction box. If you join the two red/white wires directly together, you're bypassing the starter part of the immobiliser circuit. Starter relay may also be worth investigating.

Oh, and the engine earth is right at the bottom of the block, on the nearside. That's where one of the two earth cables you saw on the chassis earth point goes. I'd guess the other one goes straight to the alternator.

Keep us posted, as I haven't fully sorted my (very similar) starting problems yet.

Edited by Nefarious on Tuesday 13th November 10:49

[DaveR]

Thanks Nefarious.

By 'third terminal' do you effetively mean the small bore cable with the spade connector?

Also whereabouts is the starter relay? Is that in one of the black boxes velcro'd up under the instrument binnacle or somewhere else?

[Nefarious]

Yep - itty-bitty wire on the back of the solanoid

Starter relay, I believe, is in the back with all the fuses (behind the carpet panel on the drivers side).

[ridds]

There should be an earth lead (one of the two attached to the battery to chassis earths) that is connected to the engine.

I think mine goes striaght to the block or very near by.

Engine mounts are rubber, hence you need an engine to chassis earth.

[Mr Tank]

Hi

Not quite the same problem but went to the green beastey today so I could fit new intermidate exhust pipes!

The car tried to start but the battery was low. Hooked it up to my starter/batt pack, and it fired up, then died. Tried again, started up and died. Tried again and all I get is a clicking and whirring from starter. Starter/batt pack is fully charged, so its not the batt/power.

Any ideas?

I am thinking starter gone! (I hope not.)

Andy.

[Nefarious]

If it started twice, and then dies, then I doubt the starter motor is the culpret. Bad earth is a possibility, so it's maybe worth running a fairly high-gauge cable from the negative on the battery to one of the bolts on the starter motor and seeing if that makes any difference. Otherwise, IMO you're looking at an engine problem, not a starter problem.

[marcus1970]

Mr Tank said:

Hi

Not quite the same problem but went to the green beastey today so I could fit new intermidate exhust pipes!

The car tried to start but the battery was low. Hooked it up to my starter/batt pack, and it fired up, then died. Tried again, started up and died. Tried again and all I get is a clicking and whirring from starter. Starter/batt pack is fully charged, so its not the batt/power.

Any ideas?

I am thinking starter gone! (I hope not.)

Andy.

Sounds like not enough power.

Get yourself a new battery or some heavy duty jump leads and then give it another go...

Those starter packs aren'r nearly man enough for the job if you're power is very low. I had the same and was getting the wallet out for a new starter, until I used some very robust heavy weight jump leads. Even then, it didn't fire for a while and kept cutting out. Left the other car running and the ignition on for a while and then started her up whilst the other car was on 4000rpm and she finally burst into life.

MB

Edited by marcus1970 on Sunday 18th November 07:47

[Mr Tank]

Hi

Well had it on charge for 16hrs, checked all the earth leads etc. Tried again and still the starter cliks and whirls and doesn't engage the engine!
So it defiantly starter off for more investigation!
Help any body done this before (Sill question)

Thanks in advance
Andy.

p.s. O'well will have to work on the "wedge" today instead.

[ridds]

What sort of clicking and whirring are you getting? Does it sound like the starter is rubbing on anything when it's turning?

One thing these suffer from badly is failed engagement due to zero lead in on the flywheel and starter teeth.

Try putting the car in gear and rocking it back and forth a little. This will move the flywheel and thus possibly making it easier for the starter to engage. Works all the time on mine.

[Mr Tank]

[quote=ridds)

Try putting the car in gear and rocking it back and forth a little. This will move the flywheel and thus possibly making it easier for the starter to engage. Works all the time on mine.
[/quote]

I was planning to give that a try after lunch!

[Mr Tank]

Well tried rocking the car in gear, but the starter will still not engage engine.
So it looks like a new starter or a defiant removeal for inspection!

Any hints on how the best way to do that!!!

Andy

[marcus1970]

Mr Tank said:

Well tried rocking the car in gear, but the starter will still not engage engine.
So it looks like a new starter or a defiant removeal for inspection!

Any hints on how the best way to do that!!!

Andy

Have you tried bump starting it?

You can then drive the car until fully warmed up and the battery fully charged.

Then drive it to the easiest place for you to work on it. Put the car in first and slowly release the clutch (with your foot on the brake) until it stalls - this may then release the part that is sticking. Put your foot on the clutch and then try to start her up. If it still won't engage and start the engine then you're looking at a new starter motor. The Nissan one is meant to be quite good and takes about 3 to 4 hours if you're going to do it yourself.

MB

[slowtypa]

Sometimes on cars of this age corrosion between the cable and the crimped on lug can be a problem.
Try either soft or silver soldering the lug onto the end of the cable.


It is usual to check the connection to battery and earth but seldom does anyone think to check the crimped connection on the end of the earth/cable.

Worth a try

Ray

[Mr Tank]

Hi again
Well tried all the suggestions, even had Mr Sheen help bump starting the car but it will not go. Sarter still just clicks and makes a whiring sound. So I think its off with the starter. Has any one done this recently and as I have not attempted it yet, are there any tips on how to DIY!

Andy.

[marcus1970]

Mr Tank said:

Hi again
Well tried all the suggestions, even had Mr Sheen help bump starting the car but it will not go. Sarter still just clicks and makes a whiring sound. So I think its off with the starter. Has any one done this recently and as I have not attempted it yet, are there any tips on how to DIY!

Andy.

It should bump start even if the starter motor is knackered...

MB

[Mr Tank]

Hi
Well removed starter this morning (1-1/2 hrs) and yes its the starter, the clucth inside has gone.
The good thing about removing it, this has given me the chance to replace the 100am fuse and holder as I had to remove that as well. That should sort out the intermittant charging for a while (Untill it corrodes)
Now to get a new starter? Any ideas!!!!!

Andy