Defender Pay Thing - Yes / No?
Discussion
Buy a magazine such as Land Rover Owner Interational and that will give the low-down on model choice. Be aware that the 'Defender' only appeared in at agout 'F' reg (1990-91 ish) with the introduction of the 200 TDi engine. Many earlier models are described as Defender but have TD engines which are not as good (although are cheaper). The Defender (or 90 generally) is superb off road - although you could try older cars such as 88" Series 3 which are very cheap. Look out for engine type (on 90's) and also look for rust to bulkheads and chassis - very expensive to fix!
Depending on money,then the TD powered 90,s are best to be avoided.Notoriously unreliable.They had terrible problems with oil being blown in to the turbo,s.Thats the reason why the Army stayed naturally aspirated until the introduction of the Wolf Defender.LandRover nearly lost the contract with the M.O.D over this.
Good advice so far chaps.
In December’s Land Rover Monthly there’s a separate buyers guide that gives a good initial overview of models, and individual model / engine pitfalls.
The one I had my eye on comes out quite well a 1985 90 with the 3.5 V8. No LPG but as its not going to be going far, that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
I’ve emailed the chap for further information, and may have a look at the weekend. If I decide to take things further I’ll get an inspection of some sort done, as the rust / rot problems worry me.
If you have any other thoughts, keep them coming!
In December’s Land Rover Monthly there’s a separate buyers guide that gives a good initial overview of models, and individual model / engine pitfalls.
The one I had my eye on comes out quite well a 1985 90 with the 3.5 V8. No LPG but as its not going to be going far, that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
I’ve emailed the chap for further information, and may have a look at the weekend. If I decide to take things further I’ll get an inspection of some sort done, as the rust / rot problems worry me.
If you have any other thoughts, keep them coming!
On the petrol v diesel front, the diesels are obviously torquey and robust but their biggest advantage is the waterproofness as they have no ignition circuit to get flooded. The V8 has a big problem with the distributor being at the front of the engine and automatically sprayed with water as soon as the fan is dipped in the wet stuff. There are solutions to the problem but they are partial and a bit of a faff. On the plus side, blatting up a hill with a V8 at full chuff is... ...well, brilliant.
On a more general note I would suggest you try and find something that has been prepared for off roading if possible otherwise you could end up spending the purchase price again on armour, tyres etc. I would suggest an off road prepared Series 3 may be a better bargain than a road biased Defender and certainly 90 that needs a steering guard, diff guards , recovery points and mud tyres fitting just to protect your investment.
(Don't tell anyone here I said so but some of the other off roaders are bargains if you just want to pay and play. You would be amazed at the obstacles the little Suzukis can throw themselves over if they have been properly modded.)
On a more general note I would suggest you try and find something that has been prepared for off roading if possible otherwise you could end up spending the purchase price again on armour, tyres etc. I would suggest an off road prepared Series 3 may be a better bargain than a road biased Defender and certainly 90 that needs a steering guard, diff guards , recovery points and mud tyres fitting just to protect your investment.
(Don't tell anyone here I said so but some of the other off roaders are bargains if you just want to pay and play. You would be amazed at the obstacles the little Suzukis can throw themselves over if they have been properly modded.)
McSwerve II said:
Conversely, is there not a potential problem with the diesel engines that they suck up water into the cylinder and blow the whole thing?
Or is that why you have that drainpipe stuck to the roof?
Both the petrol and diesels can suck water in and hydrolock. The diesels are slightly more vulnerable due to their extra high compression ratio but it is academic really. That is indeed what the drain pipe (snorkel) is for.Or is that why you have that drainpipe stuck to the roof?
Yep that is why they have the drain pipe. Also consider that for the money you are talking about you can get a Range Rover Classic or a Discovery, which with a 2" suspension lift and 235/85 tyres on will be able to do as much as a standard Defender.
V8s are fun but as mentioned are thirsty, hydrophobic and can be quiet complicated.
Diesels are nie on bomb proof in 200/300tdi guise, not bad on fuel and will run under water.
Which ever you choose, change the fluids every 5000 miles and have fun. Defenders are ridiculously easy to maintain and parts are reasonably priced, but they do need constant checking. I have had a Freelander, a v8 Disco II, a V8 Rangie and now have a 110. You could say I am a fan of the marque.
If you have the magazine you can see how much stuff there is to bolt on.
Toys eh??!
V8s are fun but as mentioned are thirsty, hydrophobic and can be quiet complicated.
Diesels are nie on bomb proof in 200/300tdi guise, not bad on fuel and will run under water.
Which ever you choose, change the fluids every 5000 miles and have fun. Defenders are ridiculously easy to maintain and parts are reasonably priced, but they do need constant checking. I have had a Freelander, a v8 Disco II, a V8 Rangie and now have a 110. You could say I am a fan of the marque.
If you have the magazine you can see how much stuff there is to bolt on.
Toys eh??!McSwerve II said:
Good advice so far chaps.
In December’s Land Rover Monthly there’s a separate buyers guide that gives a good initial overview of models, and individual model / engine pitfalls.
The one I had my eye on comes out quite well a 1985 90 with the 3.5 V8. No LPG but as its not going to be going far, that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
I’ve emailed the chap for further information, and may have a look at the weekend. If I decide to take things further I’ll get an inspection of some sort done, as the rust / rot problems worry me.
If you have any other thoughts, keep them coming!
The 90s are pretty much the same as the Defenders - ie coil sprung etc, but not all had power steering - which is a nice addition to a heavy vehicle!In December’s Land Rover Monthly there’s a separate buyers guide that gives a good initial overview of models, and individual model / engine pitfalls.
The one I had my eye on comes out quite well a 1985 90 with the 3.5 V8. No LPG but as its not going to be going far, that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
I’ve emailed the chap for further information, and may have a look at the weekend. If I decide to take things further I’ll get an inspection of some sort done, as the rust / rot problems worry me.
If you have any other thoughts, keep them coming!
Liszt said:
Also consider that for the money you are talking about you can get a Range Rover Classic or a Discovery, which with a 2" suspension lift and 235/85 tyres on will be able to do as much as a standard Defender.
I have started the mud plugging lark after buying a Disco as my day to day car and deciding I should find out what it could do. The only problems I have found is that whereas a battered Defender/Series looks like a utility vehicle properly used, a battered Discovery looks unloved. I reckon I have lost a couple of grand in value since I bought it a year ago purely because it now look off roaded. This despite having about a grands worth of additional kit on it. Also, the departure angle is dire particularly with a tow bar.Consequently, I should be picking up a V8 converted Series 3 this weekend. One to polish, one to play.
McSwerve - personally I'd go for a factory V8 if you can. TDi's are OK, but nowhere near as much fun as a V8 and whilst they run better when wet, if any water gets in them they die. If I filled my V8 with muddy water it used to take half an hour to get it running again. The reason you want a factory V8 is that they were fitted with the much stronger LT85 santana gearbox and four-pin diffs to handle the extra power. Much better than a TD or TDi with an LT77 and two pins. In five years of abuse I never managed to break the box, diffs or halfshafts which meant I never failed to drive home unlike some TDi's with weaker drivelines.
The only real downside is the V8 stopping when it gets wet. I bought a tube of marine grade silicon grease, 8 'carrot' plug top covers, a set of magnecor leads and a 3 litre bottle of pop when I bought mine. Smear plugs with the grease and fit carrots. Smear outside of dizzy and coil with grease. Cut the end off the bottle of pop and attach some elastic to the bottom so it can be dropped over the dizzy before playing in water and secured with the elastic. Hey presto - a V8 that kept running in muddy water until it reached the drivers waist, which I always took as a warning that you were already in deep enough! If I ever went deeper and it did conk out, the starter motor will usually crank you out of the water whilst knowing your engine will still work when you dry it out with no destroyed injector pumps etc.
I am however biased by the fact that my V8 has a Rimmer Bros complete s/s sports exhaust system with s/s tubular headers and thus sounds rather nicer than a TDi!
The only real downside is the V8 stopping when it gets wet. I bought a tube of marine grade silicon grease, 8 'carrot' plug top covers, a set of magnecor leads and a 3 litre bottle of pop when I bought mine. Smear plugs with the grease and fit carrots. Smear outside of dizzy and coil with grease. Cut the end off the bottle of pop and attach some elastic to the bottom so it can be dropped over the dizzy before playing in water and secured with the elastic. Hey presto - a V8 that kept running in muddy water until it reached the drivers waist, which I always took as a warning that you were already in deep enough! If I ever went deeper and it did conk out, the starter motor will usually crank you out of the water whilst knowing your engine will still work when you dry it out with no destroyed injector pumps etc.
I am however biased by the fact that my V8 has a Rimmer Bros complete s/s sports exhaust system with s/s tubular headers and thus sounds rather nicer than a TDi!
rustybin said:
Consequently, I should be picking up a V8 converted Series 3 this weekend. One to polish, one to play.
You'll have some great fun - my first ever Land Rover was a Series III with an SD1 V8 dropped in. You'll soon learn how easy it is to replace broken halfshafts as you'll be doing it weekly! 
If the standard springs have been left on since the V8 was added, you'll find them far too hard with the much lighter ally V8 in it, so get a set of 4 springs from an Airportable (lightweight) LR and fit them. You'll have a much softer ride and far better axle atriculation plus fewer visits to the chiropractor!
biglepton said:
rustybin said:
Consequently, I should be picking up a V8 converted Series 3 this weekend. One to polish, one to play.
You'll have some great fun - my first ever Land Rover was a Series III with an SD1 V8 dropped in. You'll soon learn how easy it is to replace broken halfshafts as you'll be doing it weekly! If the standard springs have been left on since the V8 was added, you'll find them far too hard with the much lighter ally V8 in it, so get a set of 4 springs from an Airportable (lightweight) LR and fit them. You'll have a much softer ride and far better axle atriculation plus fewer visits to the chiropractor!
rustybin said:
biglepton said:
rustybin said:
Consequently, I should be picking up a V8 converted Series 3 this weekend. One to polish, one to play.
You'll have some great fun - my first ever Land Rover was a Series III with an SD1 V8 dropped in. You'll soon learn how easy it is to replace broken halfshafts as you'll be doing it weekly! If the standard springs have been left on since the V8 was added, you'll find them far too hard with the much lighter ally V8 in it, so get a set of 4 springs from an Airportable (lightweight) LR and fit them. You'll have a much softer ride and far better axle atriculation plus fewer visits to the chiropractor!
i know of 2 fairly impressive beasties that are coming up for sale shortly.
one is a 100" hybrid- with a 90 softtop, a 3.5 V8, auto box, and front roll over hoop.
The other is a red truck cab V8 with auto which i beleive has a locking rear diff (pretty sure it's an ARB, but could be a GKN), has a full rollcage and external wing bars. Both run on BFG MTs with a spare set of simex if you want them.
Prices are only slightly higher than you are currently asking, but you will get an extremely capable vehicle which won't brake or need a huge amount of money spending on to remain effective (and competitive in the future).
the hybrid has a front 8274 and i think the red 90 has an XD 9000 iirc
you will also lose sod all money on them becuase you will sell them for the same price in 12-18 months.
PM me if you would like names and phone numbers.
one is a 100" hybrid- with a 90 softtop, a 3.5 V8, auto box, and front roll over hoop.
The other is a red truck cab V8 with auto which i beleive has a locking rear diff (pretty sure it's an ARB, but could be a GKN), has a full rollcage and external wing bars. Both run on BFG MTs with a spare set of simex if you want them.
Prices are only slightly higher than you are currently asking, but you will get an extremely capable vehicle which won't brake or need a huge amount of money spending on to remain effective (and competitive in the future).
the hybrid has a front 8274 and i think the red 90 has an XD 9000 iirc
you will also lose sod all money on them becuase you will sell them for the same price in 12-18 months.
PM me if you would like names and phone numbers.
and here's the link to one of them that went on sale today
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=19725
it's a bargain.
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=19725
it's a bargain.
rustybin said:
(Don't tell anyone here I said so but some of the other off roaders are bargains if you just want to pay and play. You would be amazed at the obstacles the little Suzukis can throw themselves over if they have been properly modded.)
I've done the Langdale Quest thingy in a SJ410 three times now, love it every time. I remember the first time I went and was faced with (what I thought) was a massively steep hill, and never believed it would make it...but it did with ease. Was quite amusing when wife stalled one when up to the windscreen in water 
me and a mate in the back were standing on the seats trying not to get wet!pugwash4x4 said:
and here's the link to one of them that went on sale today
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=19725
it's a bargain.
Some vehicle and obviously worth what he's asking but still out of my price range unfortunately.http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=19725
it's a bargain.
Thanks for the pointer though.
Well I collected mine on Friday. A black 1987 90.
The V8 sounds great with the ‘custom’ exhaust system. I didn’t think that sub 60mph could be such fun.
Didn’t seem that thirsty on the way home either.
Haven’t had much time to play yet. But I think I’ll be going to the local ‘pay and play’ site next Sunday.
Before and after pics to follow…..
The V8 sounds great with the ‘custom’ exhaust system. I didn’t think that sub 60mph could be such fun.
Didn’t seem that thirsty on the way home either.
Haven’t had much time to play yet. But I think I’ll be going to the local ‘pay and play’ site next Sunday.
Before and after pics to follow…..
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