E36 328i - yay or nay?
Discussion
Just a quick question. I'm buying another car in the new year, was looking at a 200sx but have just noticed how cheap 328s have become (I'll be spending around 2k). I'll be after a car that can be used on track and for drift days as well as being a daily driver, although I'm not worried about practicality, comfort or equipment. It would probably be the coupe, although I would consider the estate, with the only other stipulation that it's manual. So what are they like to own? It would have to handle well and not just be quick in a straight line. Also, are they really that reliable, will pattern parts still cost when it does go wrong and how easy are they to work on? Are they easy to tune and do early models suffer from bore wear? Finally, is the Sport tag just a trim level or would it be worth seeking one out?
Hello mate, used to have a few BMWs so thought I'd drop my tuppence worth in...
All BMWs handle well, IMHO, compared with the relevant competition [drive anything from an equivalent C class through a SAAB to Mondoe after a 3 series and you'll see what I mean]. All coupes - even 'lowly' 316s - came with M-Tech suspension [as did six cylinder E30 tourings, but I'm not sure about E36 tourings...]. The Sport pack is therefore very desirable on the saloon, what with the suspension/wheel/bodywork/trim upgrades.
Can't help with technical stuff like bore wear: I'm a mechanical muppet! Nicasil rings a bell; sure someone will be along soon to elaborate....
Inny.
All BMWs handle well, IMHO, compared with the relevant competition [drive anything from an equivalent C class through a SAAB to Mondoe after a 3 series and you'll see what I mean]. All coupes - even 'lowly' 316s - came with M-Tech suspension [as did six cylinder E30 tourings, but I'm not sure about E36 tourings...]. The Sport pack is therefore very desirable on the saloon, what with the suspension/wheel/bodywork/trim upgrades.
Can't help with technical stuff like bore wear: I'm a mechanical muppet! Nicasil rings a bell; sure someone will be along soon to elaborate....
Inny.
Get the 328 sport as it's a great car. But you need to find one that is fitted with an LSD if you are going to go sideways. Most of the 1996 cars onwards had traction control instead. But the LSD was an option so just because you have no TC does not mean the car has LSD instead.
Nikasil issue. Pre 1997 cars had engine bores lined with a material called Nikasil that corroded with the high sulphur petrol that was about at the time. Many of these were replaced under warranty with an Alusil version. There are loads and loads of nikasil cars still kicking about and they are fine but it is a well known problem. Sign up to www.e36coupe.com and so a search for Nikasil in the forum
Nikasil issue. Pre 1997 cars had engine bores lined with a material called Nikasil that corroded with the high sulphur petrol that was about at the time. Many of these were replaced under warranty with an Alusil version. There are loads and loads of nikasil cars still kicking about and they are fine but it is a well known problem. Sign up to www.e36coupe.com and so a search for Nikasil in the forum
a well looked after nikalsil can go on for just as long as a non nikasil,There are many different veiws on this but chances are if it hasnt gone wrong yet and isnt showing any sighns of giving up then it should be fine for a good time to come.
Like other comments fella go for the sport,a better looking coupe plus if you get an early one then youl find a nice LSD.good luck!
Like other comments fella go for the sport,a better looking coupe plus if you get an early one then youl find a nice LSD.good luck!
"You could buy a nikasil car that seemed fine and it could fail within weeks"
I knew youd say that fella,Im on E36coupe an awfull lot and i just dont beleive that there fine one minuete and then give up the next although i have heard the odd story .
Then there are stories that talk about how a nikasil has gone on forever and iv heard them in person,I think you have to take the bad with the good in this case and take into account some people look after there engines alot better than others witch does make a difference whatever materials are incorporated into the engine.
Im not saying Nikasils are faultless,just saying that if you find a well looked after early sport with LSD that unfortunantly has the nikasil issue and isnt showing sighns then go for it and take the chance.
As for the reason i say go for the sport is because as a bonus and just a little more he will get the added looks with the M-tec kit and the chances are the interior will be nicer I.E sports seats,I know he is not looking for any creature comforts but for very little extra now days a sport is the perfect choice.
I knew youd say that fella,Im on E36coupe an awfull lot and i just dont beleive that there fine one minuete and then give up the next although i have heard the odd story .
Then there are stories that talk about how a nikasil has gone on forever and iv heard them in person,I think you have to take the bad with the good in this case and take into account some people look after there engines alot better than others witch does make a difference whatever materials are incorporated into the engine.
Im not saying Nikasils are faultless,just saying that if you find a well looked after early sport with LSD that unfortunantly has the nikasil issue and isnt showing sighns then go for it and take the chance.
As for the reason i say go for the sport is because as a bonus and just a little more he will get the added looks with the M-tec kit and the chances are the interior will be nicer I.E sports seats,I know he is not looking for any creature comforts but for very little extra now days a sport is the perfect choice.
Edited by rossi-328i-sport on Tuesday 13th November 18:38
Thanks for the replies and advice. As for the Sport package, it doesn't seem it will be of much use aside the LSD as I'm not bothered about an M Tech bodykit (don't want to make it look like an M3 because it isn't one) or the interior (I'll probably have buckets and harnesses if it goes on the track a lot, I've never really liked leather seats either and have no problem with cloth). Is it an easy/cheap enough job to retro fit an LSD? If so, I'm thinking the best option would be to buy an early car with base interior and equipment, then spend the remainder on the slipper and a decent suspension kit
Some good advice here. I'd echo the sentiment about going for a good 328 Coupe as opposed to the Sport although if a good sport came up at the right price... In an ideal world you'd find a car with no aircon or sunroof but I suspect you'll struggle.
The Nikasil thing is a grey area but one thing I would say is that it literally can be a case of a car being fine one minute and dead the next. I saw it on my dad's 528. Literally 100% fine, then wouldn't start the next time and had to be karted off to BMW for a new block. Its easy enough to find a car with a replacment block so I'd personally not take the risk.
I think I'm right in saying that the 318is had a LSD and might be easier to come by in a scrappy if you want to pilfer bits. Loads of suspension options available and you will definitley want to upgrade the brakes because, in all honesty the standard ones are pretty cack. I suspect for track use you'd be looking for new calipers/discs rather than just a pad upgrade.
Other things to consider: There is a loads of weight saving potential. Everything is heavy, so just changing the seats and ripping out some of the interior will make a big difference. The exhaust weighs a tonne as well so a sports one could work wonders for noise and save a fair few kilos as well. If you got serious about it I bet you could get the weight down by the best part of 150 kg.
The 328 is also a little strangled at high revs which may not suit trackwork but a cheap simple mod is to fit a 325 manifold which will allow the car to breath freely all the way to the limiter and liberate some useful power as well.
The E36 is a lovely car with a lovely balance to the chassis. It wouldn't take much to make a lovely track car of one. Good luck with it all.
The Nikasil thing is a grey area but one thing I would say is that it literally can be a case of a car being fine one minute and dead the next. I saw it on my dad's 528. Literally 100% fine, then wouldn't start the next time and had to be karted off to BMW for a new block. Its easy enough to find a car with a replacment block so I'd personally not take the risk.
I think I'm right in saying that the 318is had a LSD and might be easier to come by in a scrappy if you want to pilfer bits. Loads of suspension options available and you will definitley want to upgrade the brakes because, in all honesty the standard ones are pretty cack. I suspect for track use you'd be looking for new calipers/discs rather than just a pad upgrade.
Other things to consider: There is a loads of weight saving potential. Everything is heavy, so just changing the seats and ripping out some of the interior will make a big difference. The exhaust weighs a tonne as well so a sports one could work wonders for noise and save a fair few kilos as well. If you got serious about it I bet you could get the weight down by the best part of 150 kg.
The 328 is also a little strangled at high revs which may not suit trackwork but a cheap simple mod is to fit a 325 manifold which will allow the car to breath freely all the way to the limiter and liberate some useful power as well.
The E36 is a lovely car with a lovely balance to the chassis. It wouldn't take much to make a lovely track car of one. Good luck with it all.
Gad-Westy said:
I think I'm right in saying that the 318is had a LSD and might be easier to come by in a scrappy if you want to pilfer bits. Loads of suspension options available and you will definitley want to upgrade the brakes because, in all honesty the standard ones are pretty cack. I suspect for track use you'd be looking for new calipers/discs rather than just a pad upgrade.
I think the LSD was an option, it was never a standard fit item, and that was probably more on the 328 than the 318iS ... wish mine had the LSD.The giveaway is if the car has traction control (the ASC button in front of the gearstick), then it won't have the LSD.
altho the choice is yours i'd personaly go bmw all the way. dont ask me why cos i dont know myself but for some reason it becomes like an obsession, i brought a e36 328i cab and altho its in my garage after a head on i dont even consider another car..... and believe me i get bored of cars. [over 60 in eight years] if you do decide to go e36 then im sure you'll agree once you get used to it. I must admit tho all this talk about nikasil and engine death has got me a tad worried. in my exprnc the bmw is fairly easy to work on and source cheeeep parts for so with regaurds to your question i'd say yay. you see nothing but the nissan drifting so dare to be different
Nikasil issue
(and as has been said already, most cars that are going to experience this failure, will have experienced it by now)
Other than that, they're fairly bulletproof. I bought a 96 328i (didn't know about Nikasil until after I bought it - got lucky though - never had a problem). Bought it with 109k on the clock - sold it with 140k on the clock. No real expenses other than general wear and tear.
ETA:
Another thread on the E36 328i
(and as has been said already, most cars that are going to experience this failure, will have experienced it by now)
Other than that, they're fairly bulletproof. I bought a 96 328i (didn't know about Nikasil until after I bought it - got lucky though - never had a problem). Bought it with 109k on the clock - sold it with 140k on the clock. No real expenses other than general wear and tear.
ETA:
Another thread on the E36 328i
Edited by turbo tim on Thursday 15th November 22:23
I've just been through an almost identical procedure. I ended up with a 95 328i sport coupe as it just sort of fell into my lap. 165k on the clock but idle was smooth, pulls well and a quick compression test was spot on.
Although the change between the car running and not running may be sudden, it WILL show symptoms before failing.
When looking at a car, make sure you are starting it from stone cold. When cold, any engine will produce less compression, as the pistons and bores are designed for a good fit when hot, and expanded. Differing expansion rates mean that the pistons are a little 'loose' when cold. This is when any lack of compression will show up.
If starting is difficult or laboured it COULD be the bore linings, but it could be a £60 idle control valve.
When idling hot or cold, open the driver door all the way and watch the top corner. If different bores are showing varying stages of wear, there will be an incorrect balance factor to the engine giving a lumpy idle. This shows up by a rocking motion in the body as the chassis takes up the crankshaft torque reaction. The top corner of the door will accentuate this rocking and will be a visible movement. A car with a smooth idle should be rock steady.
Obviously, look for oil being burnt. Blue smoke is almost always bad. If there's a big puff after startup, which clears after a few seconds, it's probably work exhaust valve seals or guides allowing a pool of oil to form in the headers when cold. Permanent blue smoke is the bores or rings. Unless the seller is giving it away don't bother.
The 'Nikasil issue' was always more prevalent in the north, where north sea oil, rich in sulphur provided much of the fuel. In the south, more arabian import oil with low sulphur reduced it. The sulphur reacts with water in the air during combustion, producing sulphuric acid, which eats the bores.
All fuel now has greatly reduced sulphur due to environmental concerns, BUT, all engines wear out their bores, and many of the M52's had a head start. One word of advice though. I'd much rather go with a nikasil blocked car with a strong idle and good history than a steel blocked car with no history. Bad/infrequent oil changes will hurt just as much.
One good point with a nikasil block is the way it can be used as a bargaining chip to pull a price down.
Although the change between the car running and not running may be sudden, it WILL show symptoms before failing.
When looking at a car, make sure you are starting it from stone cold. When cold, any engine will produce less compression, as the pistons and bores are designed for a good fit when hot, and expanded. Differing expansion rates mean that the pistons are a little 'loose' when cold. This is when any lack of compression will show up.
If starting is difficult or laboured it COULD be the bore linings, but it could be a £60 idle control valve.
When idling hot or cold, open the driver door all the way and watch the top corner. If different bores are showing varying stages of wear, there will be an incorrect balance factor to the engine giving a lumpy idle. This shows up by a rocking motion in the body as the chassis takes up the crankshaft torque reaction. The top corner of the door will accentuate this rocking and will be a visible movement. A car with a smooth idle should be rock steady.
Obviously, look for oil being burnt. Blue smoke is almost always bad. If there's a big puff after startup, which clears after a few seconds, it's probably work exhaust valve seals or guides allowing a pool of oil to form in the headers when cold. Permanent blue smoke is the bores or rings. Unless the seller is giving it away don't bother.
The 'Nikasil issue' was always more prevalent in the north, where north sea oil, rich in sulphur provided much of the fuel. In the south, more arabian import oil with low sulphur reduced it. The sulphur reacts with water in the air during combustion, producing sulphuric acid, which eats the bores.
All fuel now has greatly reduced sulphur due to environmental concerns, BUT, all engines wear out their bores, and many of the M52's had a head start. One word of advice though. I'd much rather go with a nikasil blocked car with a strong idle and good history than a steel blocked car with no history. Bad/infrequent oil changes will hurt just as much.
One good point with a nikasil block is the way it can be used as a bargaining chip to pull a price down.
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