Discussion
As you all know my car failed on the way to the Nurberg ring trip. (Whilst in England)
In short I have had my claim for parts and labour cover referred to the underwriters.
Here’s the terms and conditions from their site.
assistance for vehicles broken down as a result of taking part in any 'Motor Sport Event', including, without limitation, racing, rallying, trials or time-trials or auto test. However, for the avoidance of doubt, the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
Seams pretty clear that track days are not outside the cover, though it seems the ring maybe, what do you reckon? I know a few other TVR owners with this cover it might not be worth having if you intend to do stuff like the ring.
It hasn't been knocked back yet, so I'll wait and see.
In short I have had my claim for parts and labour cover referred to the underwriters.
Here’s the terms and conditions from their site.
assistance for vehicles broken down as a result of taking part in any 'Motor Sport Event', including, without limitation, racing, rallying, trials or time-trials or auto test. However, for the avoidance of doubt, the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
Seams pretty clear that track days are not outside the cover, though it seems the ring maybe, what do you reckon? I know a few other TVR owners with this cover it might not be worth having if you intend to do stuff like the ring.
It hasn't been knocked back yet, so I'll wait and see.
If you're on the way there I can't see how they can knock it back. If you're subject to the rules of the road - as you must be on the ring, since it's a public road - the under their terms you're not at a motorsport event, so again they can't knock it back for that either. I expect they'd kick up more of a fuss potentially, but how much different is using your car at the ring any to using it at full capability on an autobahn? Sure there's less cornering forces, but the engine, drivetrain and so on must be suject to the same stresses. What's more on a regular road, you could be carrying that speed for longer.
Steve that's exactly what I said to them,
Russ, their "investigations" department must had a sniff around pistonheads. I was sent a picture from last years trip.
I wonder if the photographer gave permission for them to use the image,
I realy can't see the problem, It is obviously not a motorsport event, as for one I hold no race licence and two I have no crash helmet on in the picture.
Russ, their "investigations" department must had a sniff around pistonheads. I was sent a picture from last years trip.
I wonder if the photographer gave permission for them to use the image,
I realy can't see the problem, It is obviously not a motorsport event, as for one I hold no race licence and two I have no crash helmet on in the picture.
RUSSELLM said:
Hi ya Nick....More importantly.....If you were in England, how did they know you were going to the Nurburgring/ on the Nurburgring ?
And actually, why does it matter where Nick was on his way to, as long as he was on public roads to get to his destination and it wasn't a rally! As for the snooping around on PH, I find that very big brother and very distasteful. Rather suggests that people aren't trusted doesn't it?Same old story isn't it - go after the people who have insurance and breakdown cover etc. and penalise them, 'cos they are easier to nail down.
Madness! Good luck Nick. Any help, just shout!
(Don't know what I can do, but I am trying to be supportive!) 
Thanks Nicky,
What they have a problem with is not where I was going, but that I had been to the ring last year.
It doesn't hold any water realy, their own terms and conditions are clear about that.
They where fine when the clutch went, infact I had reccomended their services because I was treated so fairly. I had allready been to the ring at that point, so how this can be blown out does look a little difficult.
Who knows, maybe they will play ball, I do hope so, it would be ashame not to be able to praise them, after all they are the fourth emergency service are they not?
I would presume they ran my reg, found last the last thread and thought, Ah ha, I have got to justify all this surfing PH somehow. That must have taken hours to read all that, not to mention trips over to you tube to watch all the vids.
AsI said it hasn't been blown out just yet so as of this moment I think they are great chaps at the AA can't fault them.
What they have a problem with is not where I was going, but that I had been to the ring last year.
It doesn't hold any water realy, their own terms and conditions are clear about that.
They where fine when the clutch went, infact I had reccomended their services because I was treated so fairly. I had allready been to the ring at that point, so how this can be blown out does look a little difficult.
Who knows, maybe they will play ball, I do hope so, it would be ashame not to be able to praise them, after all they are the fourth emergency service are they not?
I would presume they ran my reg, found last the last thread and thought, Ah ha, I have got to justify all this surfing PH somehow. That must have taken hours to read all that, not to mention trips over to you tube to watch all the vids.
AsI said it hasn't been blown out just yet so as of this moment I think they are great chaps at the AA can't fault them.
If that's their angle then the I'd suggest trying to answer it objectively. How did your clutch fail? If the friction material was worn out, they could argue that you'd wear it faster driving at pace around the ring - that might be reasonable. If the slave seals have gone, then I'm not so sure they could argue that one. It doesn't seem sensible that you can be wearing the seals out faster by moving the slave in and out when on a race track compared to the road.
Steve they paid out on the clutch,
The plot thickens,
Just received an email,
This is from the underwriters,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
Strange, doesn’t seem in line with the company terms and conditions as stated on their own web site.
But wait it gets better.
”In the circumstances, as the vehicle is basically ineligible for cover, the underwriters have agreed to refund the premium of £65.00 and I have made arrangement to have this amount paid into your bank account”
Horse shit,
They must think I am stupid, so they can’t blow it out, but will give me the premium back. (Homer Simpson) “Er yeah that sounds ok” (Homer Simpson)
So,
the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
But now,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
I think I need to draft a letter.
The plot thickens,
Just received an email,
This is from the underwriters,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
Strange, doesn’t seem in line with the company terms and conditions as stated on their own web site.
But wait it gets better.
”In the circumstances, as the vehicle is basically ineligible for cover, the underwriters have agreed to refund the premium of £65.00 and I have made arrangement to have this amount paid into your bank account”
Horse shit,
They must think I am stupid, so they can’t blow it out, but will give me the premium back. (Homer Simpson) “Er yeah that sounds ok” (Homer Simpson)
So,
the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
But now,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
I think I need to draft a letter.
Nickccc said:
Steve they paid out on the clutch,
The plot thickens,
Just received an email,
This is from the underwriters,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
Strange, doesn’t seem in line with the company terms and conditions as stated on their own web site.
But wait it gets better.
”In the circumstances, as the vehicle is basically ineligible for cover, the underwriters have agreed to refund the premium of £65.00 and I have made arrangement to have this amount paid into your bank account”
Horse shit,
They must think I am stupid, so they can’t blow it out, but will give me the premium back. (Homer Simpson) “Er yeah that sounds ok” (Homer Simpson)
So,
the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
But now,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
I think I need to draft a letter.
They've paid out on the clutch and now they're cancelling your policy, or have I misunderstood ? The plot thickens,
Just received an email,
This is from the underwriters,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
Strange, doesn’t seem in line with the company terms and conditions as stated on their own web site.
But wait it gets better.
”In the circumstances, as the vehicle is basically ineligible for cover, the underwriters have agreed to refund the premium of £65.00 and I have made arrangement to have this amount paid into your bank account”
Horse shit,
They must think I am stupid, so they can’t blow it out, but will give me the premium back. (Homer Simpson) “Er yeah that sounds ok” (Homer Simpson)
So,
the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
But now,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
I think I need to draft a letter.
Nickccc said:
Steve they paid out on the clutch,
The plot thickens,
Just received an email,
This is from the underwriters,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
Strange, doesn’t seem in line with the company terms and conditions as stated on their own web site.
But wait it gets better.
”In the circumstances, as the vehicle is basically ineligible for cover, the underwriters have agreed to refund the premium of £65.00 and I have made arrangement to have this amount paid into your bank account”
Horse shit,
They must think I am stupid, so they can’t blow it out, but will give me the premium back. (Homer Simpson) “Er yeah that sounds ok” (Homer Simpson)
So,
the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
But now,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
I think I need to draft a letter.
You certainly need to NOT accept the refund. Get them to send a cheque rather than transfer into your bank account (what are they doing with those details btw?). Do not bank the cheque - otherwise I think you may find that in law it is deemed that you have accepted the basis on which it has been paid. The plot thickens,
Just received an email,
This is from the underwriters,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
Strange, doesn’t seem in line with the company terms and conditions as stated on their own web site.
But wait it gets better.
”In the circumstances, as the vehicle is basically ineligible for cover, the underwriters have agreed to refund the premium of £65.00 and I have made arrangement to have this amount paid into your bank account”
Horse shit,
They must think I am stupid, so they can’t blow it out, but will give me the premium back. (Homer Simpson) “Er yeah that sounds ok” (Homer Simpson)
So,
the AA does not consider 'Concours d'élègance' events, track test days for road-legal vehicles or rallies held exclusively on open public highways where participants are required to comply with the normal rules of the road, to be Motor Sports Events.
But now,
“A track day is clearly for “racing” your car whether or not in competition with others”
I think I need to draft a letter.
At the moment, you should keep your options open. It does all sound very unreasonable. In fact, just get your solicitor to write a letter, it will hardly cost anything and you can spend the time out on your motorbike instead!
Nick, don't forget the ring is officially, and technically,a public road, a part of the german autobahn network. Also, didn't you tell me you were going mostly as a holiday, with doing the ring as perhaps part of the holiday? making the breakdown primarily a result of going on holiday, not of taking part in any event
Edited by AlVal on Thursday 15th November 19:39
AlVal said:
Nick, don't forget the ring is officially, and technically,a public road,
Although in addition to the German Highway Code there's also the 'Hausrecht' which for instance allows the Nürburgring GMBH to deny access to the track to cars that are road registered and road legal in the country they're registered in. It seems they now insist on TüV approvals for non-standard parts even though they're -obviously- not mandatory for cars registered in the UK or The Netherlands. A bit of a weird situation for a 'public' road - although the fact that it's a privately run toll road may be the legal foundation for the 'Hausrecht' to apply. AlVal said:
a part of the german autobahn network.
Not by a stretch of the imagination 
Gazzab said:
confusing....
the AA warranty only covers £500 (or £1K if the old type) less the excess. So not much use for engine rebuild.
You say you broke down in the UK. I dont understand what grounds they have to even mention the Ring. What is the relevance. Or have I missed the point?
Yeh but they pay towards the cost of the repair...In this case £475.the AA warranty only covers £500 (or £1K if the old type) less the excess. So not much use for engine rebuild.
You say you broke down in the UK. I dont understand what grounds they have to even mention the Ring. What is the relevance. Or have I missed the point?
Nickccc said:
Steve that's exactly what I said to them,
Russ, their "investigations" department must had a sniff around pistonheads. I was sent a picture from last years trip.
I wonder if the photographer gave permission for them to use the image,
I realy can't see the problem, It is obviously not a motorsport event, as for one I hold no race licence and two I have no crash helmet on in the picture.
Nick, I'd be intersted to know the various scenarios where they wont pay out.Russ, their "investigations" department must had a sniff around pistonheads. I was sent a picture from last years trip.
I wonder if the photographer gave permission for them to use the image,
I realy can't see the problem, It is obviously not a motorsport event, as for one I hold no race licence and two I have no crash helmet on in the picture.
Is it because "your car & you" have previously been on the ring ?
Or is it because "the car only" has been on the ring ? In which case, what happens if the previous owner of my car has been on there, is my car ruled out ?
The other thing is, it's all well & good saying here's your premium back, but had you known that they change their terms & condition when they don't want to pay on a claim, surely you would have had another warranty in place.
A decent solicitor should be able to sort it.
If they don't pay out, this thread should be shown to the wider audience on "General gassing"
Blimey 
Go gettum Nick
I have to say, although Ive had more than my fair share of claims from the AA Parts & Labour, reading this makes me glad my car no longer qualifies next year, due to age limits.
However, if they stick to their guns over this point, I shant be taking out the planned policies for my Audi and Mrs Fubes's child chariot. I will also be cancelling my 18 odd year membership with the AA out of principle and get the varying members of my family, who on my reccomendation are with the AA, to cancel theirs (with a potential 10 more Parts & Labour warranties). And Im sure Im not the only one to do so.
Hit them where it hurts, i.e. in their pockets!
Go gettum Nick I have to say, although Ive had more than my fair share of claims from the AA Parts & Labour, reading this makes me glad my car no longer qualifies next year, due to age limits.
However, if they stick to their guns over this point, I shant be taking out the planned policies for my Audi and Mrs Fubes's child chariot. I will also be cancelling my 18 odd year membership with the AA out of principle and get the varying members of my family, who on my reccomendation are with the AA, to cancel theirs (with a potential 10 more Parts & Labour warranties). And Im sure Im not the only one to do so.
Hit them where it hurts, i.e. in their pockets!
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