TVR to Elise - should i do it ?

[S2 Giles]

Hi Lotus peeps

I currently drive a good condition TVR S Series with 2.9i V6 which is putting out 171Hp & 224 lb/ft of torque. However after 7 years with this car i am looking to possibly change.

I love the Chimeara & Griffith 500's but am concerned that they are looking dated already and if i'm going to keep it for a few years i'd like something fresher.

So i've turned my attention to the Elise, i think its a beautiful looking car with many of the handling traits i'm looking for (i had a Westfield before the TVR).

My concern is the power - i've never been in an Elise, so could do with some feedback from you guys as to whether i'll be happy with the output.
I like engine noise, i like accelleration & handling, top speed doesnt worry me too much. I'm just worried about the torque levels

Also what should i buy, a S1 sport160 or a S2 standard car ?

I'd appreciate any thoughts you have as to whether its for me....... and i know i should drive one to find out, which i will.
Thanks

[Paul RN]

You'll have problems in the torque level unless you're looking at some of the more powerful Elises/Exiges or a Audi converted one. As you have said you'll need to drive a few to be sure, keep in mind they are quick cars just not overly torguey.

[piooly]

Try an S1 sport 160, it may not have the ultimate torque but you may prefer the raggable feel it has, letting the engine scream etc.... Quite addictive but you have to work at it. Depends on your driving style. If you are a liad back driver then the elise might not be the car for you.

[Saied]

Do you have a budget in mind?

[S2 Giles]

I reckon the budget would be about £12,000

I used to drive a Honda Accord Type-R and did 70k in that, so i'm used to pushing the red line, that doesnt worry me.

The bottom line is, what is faster on a 1/4 mile strip, an Elise or a Griff 500.

My old westfield was quicker than my TVR but the TVR has more space for luggage. I was hoping the Elise would be somewhere in between.

[Saied]

I would discount a standard tune K-powered S2 Elise. Its acceleration at higher speeds will probably feel a bit tame after the torque of a TVR.

For your budget, the higher tuned K-engined examples would be a good starting point to look. The Sport 160 has already been mentioned and is a good choice. If you'd prefer an S2, you may be able to get a 111 (160 bhp, under 800kg, 0-60 in around 5.5 seconds)

[S2 Giles]

Pure Lotus seem to have loads of good examples, a couple of S1 160's & a S2 111S but its only running 135.

What are they like as a dealer, reputation ?

They have loads of adverts on PH classifieds

[subaqua]

If the 1/4 mile is your bottom line, then I have to say that I imagine the griff 500 would kill most Lotus products in your price range, but that's missing the point of the Elise entirely, which is that most journeys from A-B aren't in a totally straight line. The steering feel and responsive handling of the Elise means that you'll get there just as fast as the TVR and you'll arrive with a huge grin.

The upshot here I reckon, is to get out and try a few and see what you think - thats the only way you'll stand a chance of understanding. I would add that there isn't any point of doing a test drive when the roads are soaking wet.... best get to understand how they handle in the dry!

[Sam_68]

S2 Giles said:

The bottom line is, what is faster on a 1/4 mile strip, an Elise or a Griff 500.

If that's genuinely your bottom line, then go for the Griffith: it will murder any unsupercharged Elise, even a Sport 160, in a straight line.

BUT, a well-driven Elise will murder a Griffith on any sort of twisty road.

I've owned both... I went from a near standard Elise S1 to a Griffith 500, which I kept for about a year before trading back to a Sport 160 Elise.

The Griffith looked great, sounded great and was very, very swift in a straight line, but had just about the most crude, clumsy and unpredictable handling of any sportscar it's been my misfortune to own... the chassis was simply overwhelmed by the engine's torque. Point-to-point on challenging roads, my Seat Leon Cupra company car at the time was a much quicker way to travel than the Griffith, never mind an Elise! If you wanted to stay alive, that is...

In answer to the other part of your question, if you decide to give the Elise a chance, think about a VVC-engined 111S rather than the Sport 160. The Sport 160 needs working hard to get at the performance, even by Elise standards, so will feel particularly gutless if you are used to the torque of a TVR. The 111S gives nearly identical performance to the S160, in real world driving, but has a much broader torque spread so delivers it in a much more accessible manner.

[S2 Giles]

Thank you very much for the input so far

I'm not only concerned about a 1/4 mile time... more which is a quicker car.

I really want to take it out on a summers day with the wife & luggage and feel that i could leave most cars behind and have some real fun. I think i need to try one.

really i want something fast, fun and tweakable with a more modern twist than the TVR.

I assume i can upgrade shocks, springs etc but what can i do to the engine, do people chip them for better fuelling & change cams. Is there a massive parts supply & is the engine DIY friendly ?

My only worry is that it'll feel breathless if i'm in the wrong gear and an imprezza boosts off in front of me

thanks

[fleetelise]

S2 Giles said:

I really want to take it out on a summers day with the wife & luggage and feel that i could leave most cars behind and have some real fun. I think i need to try one.

thanks

Out-dragging or out-driving is the question? You won't win any slip-road races on an Elise, but you might pull away through the twisties.

Bringing 1/4 mile times into the equation suggest to me that Elises shouldn't even be considered.

[Mrs Trackside]

fleetelise said:

S2 Giles said:

I really want to take it out on a summers day with the wife & luggage and feel that i could leave most cars behind and have some real fun. I think i need to try one.

thanks

Out-dragging or out-driving is the question? You won't win any slip-road races on an Elise, but you might pull away through the twisties.

Bringing 1/4 mile times into the equation suggest to me that Elises shouldn't even be considered.

There's not much boot space for luggage either. Certainly not compared to a TVR

[S2 Giles]

Ok so compare it to my WEstfield

that ran a 1700 crossflow with just 136Hp - it was quicker than my current TVR and i reckon was giving around 5.5 secs to 60 as it was so light.

Would you compare it to this ?

It looks to me like i want an S2 111 or 111S model. It has the looks and style of a moden car & the power to back it up. Looks like a budget of 13-14k is required tho. What do you think ?

[Sam_68]

S2 Giles said:

My only worry is that it'll feel breathless if i'm in the wrong gear and an imprezza boosts off in front of me

I'm still hearing 'I want lazy performance for winning pi55ing competitions', rather than 'I want a real driver's car'.

To be honest, I'd stick with a TVR, if I were you.

edited to add: Don't try racing Imprezzas on twisty roads in a TVR, though. They won't murder you. You'll murder yourself.

Edited by Sam_68 on Monday 19th November 08:09

[piper]

I used to have a TVR V8S and now drive a VX220 Turbo, handling and roadholding is in a different league to the TVR and its just as quick if not quicker, the only thing I miss is the noise.

[Shnozz]

There is no torque in the Elise so you need to drive the car accordingly and in the wrong gear it will feel very sluggish. Adjust your driving style and its a quick car at legal speeds, at 60 - 70 mph plus its not that fast in standard guise.

That said, 1/4 mile times my Elise (B&C 160 running about 145bhp) was quicker than my 4 litre Chimaera. At the 1/4 mile the elise was 11 mph lower than the chimaera, so a few seconds later the TVR would have theoretically flown past, but not too many traffic light GPs will be longer than 1/4 mile and as soon as the bends arrive the TVR wouldnt tell which way the elise had gone.

I woudl strongly recommend getting along to a Lotus on track trackday where there will be an abundance of people happy to let you passenger in their elise and you can see what they can really do in the right environment.

[Tin Hat]

You won't get on with an Elise!

[S2 Giles]

Thanks for the comments

I cant quite beleive that you guys are talking me out of it.

In essence your telling me that your Elises are all underpowered ?

I am certainly no red light racer, but i want a competitive car that i can enjoy on ALL roads

My TVR has new bushes, shocks, springs and a full set up; so i am comfortable that they are not as far off the handling pace as a standard TVR would perhaps be. It wouldnt keep up with an Elise on the bends but it wouldnt be far behind. Try a V8S with Nitrons on it & you may be shocked, power and poise

When i had my Honda type-R, i was always left feeling that it needed a bit more power (210hp & 150 lb/ft) and if i was caught in the wrong gear at the wrong time, then i couldnt get that reaction time back. I was worried that the Elise would be the same & you are confirming my worries.

Its such a beautiful looking car, i will be gutted if it disappoints me.

Maybe i should look at an Exige instead ?

i just cant beleive it

[S2 Giles]

i think a XV220 Turbo would be ideal - i'm just not sure i can live with the square styling of it.

You guys are beginning to be a little defensive so let me confirm that i am not a boy racer looking for the next car to boost, i am a dedicated enthusiast who wants the right car as i tend to keep them a while.

I live in Devon & think the twisty roads would be great for an Elise but your telling me they havnt got enough power to fly on the straights aswell

[cej]

But the type R you had was slow,even on a quarter mile. I've raced several ATRs on the drag strip in my Civic many years ago and my civic had 179hp. It's all about the weight.
Same goes for the Elise. Fastest car I've ever had ,but it has almost half the power my recent Civic had. It doesn't need it when it's 400kg lighter.

And what's the fun drag racing anyway ? I was into it many years ago,but now that I have the Elise and discovered the joy of twisty roads and driving with the roof off there's just no turning back

But if you want something seriously fast you might want to consider a Honda swapped Elise S1