Do I need to report this?
Discussion
So last night I am on my way home. Having taken off from lights I am in the left lane of three doing c.30mph. There are cars parked in the left hand lane up ahead. The right hand lane leads to a right turn traffic light and sometimes you get cars waiting in the middle lane to join the right-turners (the right turn bit becomes two lanes just before the light, which changes to green seconds before the straight-on light further up.
Seeing the parked cars in the left lane, I check mirrors and indicate and start to pull towards middle lane. I have no intention of taking the whole middle lane as I don't need more than half of it to round the parked cars safely and will immediately return to left lane. By this time my speed is already slightly decreasing because of the junction up ahead.
Before starting to move across I have seen a car a fair way back that appears still to be accelerating. However, there's a substantial gap (several car lengths - perhaps 30 yards).
However, having made the move across, I note that he still seems to be accelerating - this despite the stopped traffic up ahead. I do not move any further to the right. Doing so would have forced him to slow down - normally a bad thing but perhaps a good one in this instance, as you'll see.
I am surprised that he keeps on coming, trying to squeeze through a non-existent gap on my right. Perhaps he is assuming that, because of the relative values of the cars, I will simply stop and let him through. To be clear, I could easily have accelerated and stopped him trying to go past, but that did not seem responsible and would have require me to break the limit.
As he comes alongside, my speed is close to 20mph and his close to 40mph. I can see that I am being forced to close the gap between my car and the parked ones, but his is still getting extremely close to my right hand side (he has queuing cars in lane 3 to his right). So I hit the brakes and sound the horn. Braking is straight line and I come to a halt. Between starting to brake and stopping the left side of his car (near rear wheel arch) clips the right side of mine (near front wheel arch) as he starts to cut left in the lane.
The only damage to his car (in his words) is a bit of trim that came off and I retrieved from the road. This had landed a few yards in front of my car (prior to me moving my car out of the way). I could not tell at the time if there was any damage to mine (it was dark) but it now looks like it's just a minor scratch.
The problem comes as follows: having taken details of a witness (knowing that I had not been the reckless one and hoping that the witness had seen that), I spoke to the other driver, who had been noting down the details of my car. I asked for his details (as required, right?) and he refused to give them. He then launched into a rant about how I had driven like a pr1ck despite him having been (a) speeding and (b) misjudging width; and he responded to my every attempt to engage him in conversation, or for me to insist that our opinions didn't matter but that we needed to exchange details, with "I couldn't give a fvck." That was repeated several times and he was shouting.
He said that rather than give me his details he'd go to a police station and give them in. As if I would trust him to do that. As luck would have it, a police car came past. I knocked on the window and mentioned that he was refusing to give his details. As they parked their car, the other chap said to me "So you're a grass as well, are yah?"
The policemen kept us apart, asked us both to provide our details and, when I suddenly thought that providing the other guy with my address might end up with my car smashed up or house burnt down, they did a registration check and simply presented us with each other's names and registration numbers.
So... no big deal really, but unpleasant and I'm surprised I ended up neither shouting nor punching the guy when he was at his most unpleasant.
But... if I have no damage and have no intention of making a claim, do I need to report the incident to my insurers? I don't particularly want to have an accident on my record, especially if there's no claim and I don't consider myself to have been the guilty party. But I wonder whether I need to do so, in case he does? At the point when he was refusing to give details and I didn't know if I had any damage, he was suggesting that he wouldn't. But now, who knows?
Any sensible thoughts would be welcome. Sorry about the length but I'm sure I may end up recycling this on a form!
Seeing the parked cars in the left lane, I check mirrors and indicate and start to pull towards middle lane. I have no intention of taking the whole middle lane as I don't need more than half of it to round the parked cars safely and will immediately return to left lane. By this time my speed is already slightly decreasing because of the junction up ahead.
Before starting to move across I have seen a car a fair way back that appears still to be accelerating. However, there's a substantial gap (several car lengths - perhaps 30 yards).
However, having made the move across, I note that he still seems to be accelerating - this despite the stopped traffic up ahead. I do not move any further to the right. Doing so would have forced him to slow down - normally a bad thing but perhaps a good one in this instance, as you'll see.
I am surprised that he keeps on coming, trying to squeeze through a non-existent gap on my right. Perhaps he is assuming that, because of the relative values of the cars, I will simply stop and let him through. To be clear, I could easily have accelerated and stopped him trying to go past, but that did not seem responsible and would have require me to break the limit.
As he comes alongside, my speed is close to 20mph and his close to 40mph. I can see that I am being forced to close the gap between my car and the parked ones, but his is still getting extremely close to my right hand side (he has queuing cars in lane 3 to his right). So I hit the brakes and sound the horn. Braking is straight line and I come to a halt. Between starting to brake and stopping the left side of his car (near rear wheel arch) clips the right side of mine (near front wheel arch) as he starts to cut left in the lane.
The only damage to his car (in his words) is a bit of trim that came off and I retrieved from the road. This had landed a few yards in front of my car (prior to me moving my car out of the way). I could not tell at the time if there was any damage to mine (it was dark) but it now looks like it's just a minor scratch.
The problem comes as follows: having taken details of a witness (knowing that I had not been the reckless one and hoping that the witness had seen that), I spoke to the other driver, who had been noting down the details of my car. I asked for his details (as required, right?) and he refused to give them. He then launched into a rant about how I had driven like a pr1ck despite him having been (a) speeding and (b) misjudging width; and he responded to my every attempt to engage him in conversation, or for me to insist that our opinions didn't matter but that we needed to exchange details, with "I couldn't give a fvck." That was repeated several times and he was shouting.
He said that rather than give me his details he'd go to a police station and give them in. As if I would trust him to do that. As luck would have it, a police car came past. I knocked on the window and mentioned that he was refusing to give his details. As they parked their car, the other chap said to me "So you're a grass as well, are yah?"
The policemen kept us apart, asked us both to provide our details and, when I suddenly thought that providing the other guy with my address might end up with my car smashed up or house burnt down, they did a registration check and simply presented us with each other's names and registration numbers.
So... no big deal really, but unpleasant and I'm surprised I ended up neither shouting nor punching the guy when he was at his most unpleasant.
But... if I have no damage and have no intention of making a claim, do I need to report the incident to my insurers? I don't particularly want to have an accident on my record, especially if there's no claim and I don't consider myself to have been the guilty party. But I wonder whether I need to do so, in case he does? At the point when he was refusing to give details and I didn't know if I had any damage, he was suggesting that he wouldn't. But now, who knows?
Any sensible thoughts would be welcome. Sorry about the length but I'm sure I may end up recycling this on a form!
Good yarn.
'Tis a difficult one. If you report it to your insurance company, you will have a higher premium next year - without a doubt.
If you don't ... what? I guess that would be the move to make if you fear he will be back and smash your house/car up.
I personally would be VERY disappointed with the Police, as that sounds like a piss-poor response. I'd hope that they would have taken statements from you and him and any witnesses, looked at the relative damages and made a judgement which they could then pass on to insurance companies, thus getting your scratch repaired on his insurance. (However, I am grown-up enough to realise that while this is standard course in other European countries, it never happens in the UK.)
What to do? If you think you have a good case, the witnesses are firmly on your side, and you want that scratch repaired, pursue it through your insurance company.
Otherwise, I'd probably be chalking it up to (bitter) experience.
Oli.
'Tis a difficult one. If you report it to your insurance company, you will have a higher premium next year - without a doubt.
If you don't ... what? I guess that would be the move to make if you fear he will be back and smash your house/car up.
I personally would be VERY disappointed with the Police, as that sounds like a piss-poor response. I'd hope that they would have taken statements from you and him and any witnesses, looked at the relative damages and made a judgement which they could then pass on to insurance companies, thus getting your scratch repaired on his insurance. (However, I am grown-up enough to realise that while this is standard course in other European countries, it never happens in the UK.)
What to do? If you think you have a good case, the witnesses are firmly on your side, and you want that scratch repaired, pursue it through your insurance company.
Otherwise, I'd probably be chalking it up to (bitter) experience.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
I personally would be VERY disappointed with the Police, as that sounds like a piss-poor response.
They only get involved if there's an injury. I think they were very helpful.However, my real question is: given that I'm not too bothered about the minor scratch (possibly T-cuttable) is there anything to lose by not reporting?
cheeky said:
zcacogp said:
I personally would be VERY disappointed with the Police, as that sounds like a piss-poor response.
They only get involved if there's an injury. I think they were very helpful.However, my real question is: given that I'm not too bothered about the minor scratch (possibly T-cuttable) is there anything to lose by not reporting?
zcacogp said:
Good yarn.
'Tis a difficult one. If you report it to your insurance company, you will have a higher premium next year - without a doubt.
Assuming he had his "No claims Protection" in order, then it should not alter next years premiums. I have claimed on Esure for a minor damage, due to my fault I might add, they paid out, and next next years premiums is actually 9 quid cheaper.'Tis a difficult one. If you report it to your insurance company, you will have a higher premium next year - without a doubt.
rustybin said:
cheeky said:
zcacogp said:
I personally would be VERY disappointed with the Police, as that sounds like a piss-poor response.
They only get involved if there's an injury. I think they were very helpful.However, my real question is: given that I'm not too bothered about the minor scratch (possibly T-cuttable) is there anything to lose by not reporting?
(i) I am not legally obliged to report it;
(ii) will not get into any bother if he reports it and I don't.
Owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road whereby a non injury accident occurs and there is damage to any other vehicle then driver must stop and supply to any reasonable person, hisve his name and address and that of the owner of the vehicle and vehicle details. If not done at the scene as soon as reasonably practicable report to Police within 24 hours. Offence not to do so.
But in this case Plod made sure details exchanged so law complied with.
Notification to Insurance Co. What does it say in your policy -that they should be informed any incidents likely to cause them to be at risk?
So you don't report but the other fellow bangs you with a massive claim for damage to his. Are you going to foot it or put it through your Insurance Company who you have not informed?
Up to you of course but I would play it straight.
dvd
But in this case Plod made sure details exchanged so law complied with.
Notification to Insurance Co. What does it say in your policy -that they should be informed any incidents likely to cause them to be at risk?
So you don't report but the other fellow bangs you with a massive claim for damage to his. Are you going to foot it or put it through your Insurance Company who you have not informed?
Up to you of course but I would play it straight.
dvd
zcacogp said:
If you report it to your insurance company, you will have a higher premium next year - without a doubt.
Why does everyone trot out this ill-informed tosh every time insurance and claims are mentioned? It's not a given by a long shot. I made a £40,000 claim and my next years premium was actually lower.cheeky said:
rustybin said:
cheeky said:
zcacogp said:
I personally would be VERY disappointed with the Police, as that sounds like a piss-poor response.
They only get involved if there's an injury. I think they were very helpful.However, my real question is: given that I'm not too bothered about the minor scratch (possibly T-cuttable) is there anything to lose by not reporting?
(i) I am not legally obliged to report it;
(ii) will not get into any bother if he reports it and I don't.
I am 99% certain that you do not have any legal obligation to report any accident to anyone other than the Police and only then in the event of an injury.
ETA: DVD has clarified perfectly why one should never trust a lay persons commited view. (Though in my defence rightish in context). However, I would still take the flyer and not bother telling the insurance company.
Edited by rustybin on Tuesday 20th November 15:22
timskipper said:
zcacogp said:
If you report it to your insurance company, you will have a higher premium next year - without a doubt.
Why does everyone trot out this ill-informed tosh every time insurance and claims are mentioned? It's not a given by a long shot. I made a £40,000 claim and my next years premium was actually lower.Come renewal time, the premium had gone up (despite another years' NCB) and the fact that I had had an accident in the last 12 years was clearly stated.
If you had a happier experience, I am pleased for you.
Oli.
If the police know, tell your insurer. At renewal if not sooner.
And yes your premium most likely WILL go up, even without a claim...shouldn't, but it does. I finally got the truth out of my insurer that my 'non-fault' accident back in 2002 has loaded my policy by 8% since then (!!! Probably £3-400 extra cost to me over the 5 years! Whereas if I got 3 points on my license, they wouldn't have done anything...go figure!).
You may also want to report the other chap's behaviour before the police arrived TO the police. Not for them to do anything or even talk to him about, but just to have on-record in case he turns up at your house, IYSWIM.
And yes your premium most likely WILL go up, even without a claim...shouldn't, but it does. I finally got the truth out of my insurer that my 'non-fault' accident back in 2002 has loaded my policy by 8% since then (!!! Probably £3-400 extra cost to me over the 5 years! Whereas if I got 3 points on my license, they wouldn't have done anything...go figure!).
You may also want to report the other chap's behaviour before the police arrived TO the police. Not for them to do anything or even talk to him about, but just to have on-record in case he turns up at your house, IYSWIM.
rustybin said:
I am 99% certain that you do not have any legal obligation to report any accident to anyone other than the Police and only then in the event of an injury.
You are 99% certain to have a legal obligation to report it to your insurance company under the terms and conditions you agreed upon on entering into the contract. Any accident is deemed a material fact and should be declared failure to do so can result in cancellation of insurance.The real question is whether the insurance company is likely to learn of the accident through any other means.
Vipers said:
Assuming he had his "No claims Protection" in order, then it should not alter next years premiums. I have claimed on Esure for a minor damage, due to my fault I might add, they paid out, and next next years premiums is actually 9 quid cheaper.
The thing is,no claims bonus gives you a discount.Now lets say you have 3 years and this gives you 20% off your premium.
You make a claim.The insurance company work your premium out to be £783 the next year.
All they do is take 20% of the premium that could now have gone up due to an accident or claim.
Therefore no claims bonus does not mean your premium will not be affected.
You SHOULD inform your insurance company of any accident you are involved in whether you intend to claim or not.
You do not breach any laws by no doing so but you will breach the contract you have with them if you do not. Check the small print on the policy schedule. You will find the obligations on disclosing information to the insurance company in there.
You do not breach any laws by no doing so but you will breach the contract you have with them if you do not. Check the small print on the policy schedule. You will find the obligations on disclosing information to the insurance company in there.
Mg6b said:
You SHOULD inform your insurance company of any accident you are involved in whether you intend to claim or not.
You do not breach any laws by no doing so but you will breach the contract you have with them if you do not. Check the small print on the policy schedule. You will find the obligations on disclosing information to the insurance company in there.
You do not breach any laws by no doing so but you will breach the contract you have with them if you do not. Check the small print on the policy schedule. You will find the obligations on disclosing information to the insurance company in there.
100% correct, I believe.I recently had a non fault claim with someone driving into the back of me. It was all dealt with via his insurers and settled at a garage of my choice etc etc, but at all stages they made sure that I informed my insurance company but did not want to persue a claim. I renewed with the company at the start of November and there was no price increase due to this - just a big price drop and another years NCD! (and I'm a young driver (19)).
bluepolarbear said:
rustybin said:
I am 99% certain that you do not have any legal obligation to report any accident to anyone other than the Police and only then in the event of an injury.
You are 99% certain to have a legal obligation to report it to your insurance company under the terms and conditions you agreed upon on entering into the contract. Any accident is deemed a material fact and should be declared failure to do so can result in cancellation of insurance.The real question is whether the insurance company is likely to learn of the accident through any other means.
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