lots of advice regarded speeding needed please

[italyciccia76]

Hi

Unfortunately I received a NIP two weeks ago for doing 53mph in a 40mph. The offence related to an incident a month ago. The reason for the delay was that I sold the car the following day and the original NIP went to the new owner, who gave them my details. I fear the offence may have taken place when someone was test driving the car hence my request for a photograph. I dont think the photograph will do any good as it was an Lotus Elise. I have a number of questions

1) How long does it take for them to supply a photograph, I am worried about the automatic 6 points if i dont return the NIP within 28 days. The request was sent by recorded delivery the day after I received the NIP.
2) I dont have the guys details wo test drove the car (he didnt buy it) will I have to take responsibility
3) I have 3 points on my licence from 3 years ago, can they come off yet?
4) What punishment am I likely to get?

Thanks for your help, I am a bit worried.

[H_Kan]

Try a forum called 'pepipoo'

Just from the top of my head, I believe that is somebody was test driving, neither you nor they can prove it was you then you may be able to escape points but still be liable for the penalty.

[BertBert]

If you had test drivers and you cannot be certain who was driving at the time and cannot with reasonable diligence find out now then you have the statutory defence under S172.

In my view you do not want a photo. If they have one they want to show you, then that is a different matter.

S172 is a horrible piece of legislation and should be fought if you have proper grounds so to do (ie the defence applies to you).

Pepipoo tells you what to do under the circs you describe.

It happened to me as reg keeper. It was not possible for me to determine with certainty who was driving and the scammers didn't proceed. I would have gone to court with it if necc as I had the S172 statutory defence.

Bert

[SS2.]

italyciccia76 said:

1) How long does it take for them to supply a photograph, I am worried about the automatic 6 points if i dont return the NIP within 28 days.

There is a defence to the late supply of information if you can demonstrate that it was not reasonably practicable to provide the information within the 28 day period permitted by statute, but that you provided it as soon as was reasonably practicable after the end of these 28 days.

If photos are required to help confirm the identity of the driver, and these were delivered late, then the above defence to a charge of failing to provide should be applicable.

italyciccia76 said:

2) I dont have the guys details wo test drove the car (he didnt buy it) will I have to take responsibility..

If you are unable to provide the driver's details, then you would be liable for prosecution for failing to supply. In court, you would be required to convince the court that you exercised reasonable diligence in attempting to identify the driver and why, despite your best efforts, the driver's identity remains unknown.

If the Magistrates believe you and concur that you took all steps which could be reasonably expected of you, then you should not be convicted.

Just one thought - how did you check that the prospective purchasers were insured to drive your vehicle ?

italyciccia76 said:

3) I have 3 points on my licence from 3 years ago, can they come off yet?

Points remain valid for totting purposes for 3 years, can be removed from your licence after 4 years and have to be declared to insurance companies for 5 years. With very few exceptions, from the date of offence.

italyciccia76 said:

4) What punishment am I likely to get?

The speed alleged would qualify for a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty. This would, of course, require someone to 'fess up to driving at the time of the alleged offence.

A conviction of failing to provide driver details carries a mandatory 6 points, a fine of typically £300, court costs of not less than £43 plus a £15 victim support surcharge..

[italyciccia76]

Thanks for your help guys.

I have already asked for the photo - and not heard anything. I assume that I should do nothing if I dont hear anything? With regards to evidence, the car was in the garage to get some body work repairs that day, and I arranged a chaps transfer with the buyer the day after. I can prove this. I was informed people had insurance before test driving the car, but didnt see anything in writing (stupid in hindsight) and to be honest even if I did have I wouldnt have kept it. It would be impossible to track via mobile phone records and there is no way I can track them.

I guess the issue is do I risk fighting it in court with this evidence or just take the points and £60 based on the evidence above? I am sure this doesnt make any difference but they also had me addressed as the company secretary and mispelled my address.

I have documented all this in the letter asking for the photo, are they likely to drop the case at this stage?

Thanks again for all your help.

[SS2.]

italyciccia76 said:

I was informed people had insurance before test driving the car, but didnt see anything in writing (stupid in hindsight)..

Not smart, IMO. The penalties upon conviction for causing or permitting to drive whilst uninsured are as severe as those of the act of driving whilst uninsured..

italyciccia76 said:

It would be impossible to track via mobile phone records and there is no way I can track them.

Why ? Do the logged phone numbers in your mobile not go back that far ? Have you considered asking the mobile phone company if there is any way that a list of received calls can be provided ? These (and others) are likely to be questions the Magistrates would want answering..

italyciccia76 said:

I guess the issue is do I risk fighting it in court with this evidence or just take the points and £60 based on the evidence above?

Your choice.. But bear in mind that it is an offence to knowingly furnish a false statement..

italyciccia76 said:

I am sure this doesnt make any difference but they also had me addressed as the company secretary and mispelled my address.

Is the NIP addressed to you personally or to a company ?

A minor error in the address will not invalidate the notice.

italyciccia76 said:

I have documented all this in the letter asking for the photo, are they likely to drop the case at this stage?

IMO, they won't drop it. In fact, its more likely that a response of 'my car was being driven by a complete stranger' will have the opposite effect..

[fluffnik]

BertBert said:

S172 is a horrible piece of legislation and should be fought if you have proper grounds so to do (ie the defence applies to you).

Every opportunity should be taken to bring the odious S172 into the disrepute it so richly deserves.