Traction control in the wet...
Discussion
The other night, after I moneyed in a local poker tournament, I fancied getting a bit sideways. The roads were wet, so I could do it at a slow speed and it was late so no one else was on the private test track either.
I mangeged to do it relatively easily, full on side ways action, must have slid 3 or 4 meters at probably less that 20mph. However I then realised the traction control was still on. Should it have let me done that or does it only come on over a certain speed?
One thing I have noticed though is that it is hard to get into reverse. I've had some TVR's in the past and an Esprit and it was nothing out of the ordinary to have trouble selecting reverse. On all gear boxes, sticking it in 5th or 4th first made it much eaiser. I would just like to check to see if that sounds normal to you guys?
Finally, some times when the car is warmed up and I've been sitting in traffic, if I go into first from a stand still, I do get a short grinding sound (actually more of a clunk than a grind) and the "Traction Control" picture pops up on the dash for a second or so (sometimes so quick its hard to see)... this is the main thing thats got me thinking the box might be foobared.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
(Its 2006 so still under warranty, so probably wise to take it to a dealers. Anyone used Drive in Aldershot?)
I mangeged to do it relatively easily, full on side ways action, must have slid 3 or 4 meters at probably less that 20mph. However I then realised the traction control was still on. Should it have let me done that or does it only come on over a certain speed?
One thing I have noticed though is that it is hard to get into reverse. I've had some TVR's in the past and an Esprit and it was nothing out of the ordinary to have trouble selecting reverse. On all gear boxes, sticking it in 5th or 4th first made it much eaiser. I would just like to check to see if that sounds normal to you guys?
Finally, some times when the car is warmed up and I've been sitting in traffic, if I go into first from a stand still, I do get a short grinding sound (actually more of a clunk than a grind) and the "Traction Control" picture pops up on the dash for a second or so (sometimes so quick its hard to see)... this is the main thing thats got me thinking the box might be foobared.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
(Its 2006 so still under warranty, so probably wise to take it to a dealers. Anyone used Drive in Aldershot?)
Edited by Ston on Friday 23 November 06:58
Traction control shold be on at all speeds.
Theres' two parts to the system:
Traction control - just reduces power to stop the back wheels spinning
Stability Control - applies the brakes individually to all four wheels to help prevent spinning.
I'm not sure if the stability control aspect is on all the time but I would expect it to be.
The SC works by detecting variations in all four wheel speed - however in the rain you can deliberatley do stuff that limits its effectiveness. You certainly shouldn't have been able to apply power on oversteer though.
At the end of the day, it can't do anything about the laws of physics so can't keep control in all circumstances. one of the problems with the old Evo's was that the systems were stunning at keeping the car under tight control right up to the limit but once you oversteped the mark it was gone in a big way.
Theres' two parts to the system:
Traction control - just reduces power to stop the back wheels spinning
Stability Control - applies the brakes individually to all four wheels to help prevent spinning.
I'm not sure if the stability control aspect is on all the time but I would expect it to be.
The SC works by detecting variations in all four wheel speed - however in the rain you can deliberatley do stuff that limits its effectiveness. You certainly shouldn't have been able to apply power on oversteer though.
At the end of the day, it can't do anything about the laws of physics so can't keep control in all circumstances. one of the problems with the old Evo's was that the systems were stunning at keeping the car under tight control right up to the limit but once you oversteped the mark it was gone in a big way.
greens vauxhall said:
The T/C on Monaro's is just a throttle relaxer!! Has no spark/fueling reduction and no braking action. 
Ah - That'd be it
Kinda figured the monaro had a similar setup to the VXR8 but if it is traction control through throttle manipulation then that is very basic and will only give limited benefit. Probably must useful when accelerating away in a straight line but conering it could make things a little entertaining!
T/C on the Monaro is very basic and it will let you get a couple of feet sideways before it kicks in, although it feels like a lot more! I never turn mine off as I'm not a good enough driver to do full sideways powerslides like most of you lot 
As regards the gearbox, mine was very difficult to get into reverse and Vauxhall replaced the gearbox under warranty. If yours is too old I think the problem is reletively easy to fix if you are a decent mechanic. There is a solenoid that stops you selecting reverse when you are moving forward and I believe this can get bunged up if the car is not in regular use. Take it Mark at Rapid or Roger at Monkfish as they will tell you if it's terminal.
Details on the reverse lock-out solenoid: www.drivetrain.com/gmt56inst.html
There is a 45 lbs spring to overcome if the solenoid is not functioning correctly which is why it could be so difficult to get into reverse.
As regards the gearbox, mine was very difficult to get into reverse and Vauxhall replaced the gearbox under warranty. If yours is too old I think the problem is reletively easy to fix if you are a decent mechanic. There is a solenoid that stops you selecting reverse when you are moving forward and I believe this can get bunged up if the car is not in regular use. Take it Mark at Rapid or Roger at Monkfish as they will tell you if it's terminal.
Details on the reverse lock-out solenoid: www.drivetrain.com/gmt56inst.html
There is a 45 lbs spring to overcome if the solenoid is not functioning correctly which is why it could be so difficult to get into reverse.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 November 11:02
Ston said:
I mangeged to do it relatively easily, full on side ways action, must have slid 3 or 4 meters at probably less that 20mph. However I then realised the traction control was still on. Should it have let me done that or does it only come on over a certain speed?
I managed about 80 meters at 35mph sideways into a road sign with the traction control on, but that was another story.Edited by Ston on Friday 23 November 06:58
Race logic is a "must have" in my opinion, but we have all discussed that one many times before
Regards Neil
habitualvoyeur said:
I managed about 80 meters at 35mph sideways into a road sign with the traction control on, but that was another story.
Race logic is a "must have" in my opinion, but we have all discussed that one many times before
Regards Neil
RLTC is an awesome piece of kit, made even better when you fine tune the settings with the correct DAT file (email me if you need it). I really wouldnt want a high powere RWD car without it.Race logic is a "must have" in my opinion, but we have all discussed that one many times before
Regards Neil
Anyone in the SE that wants RLTC fitted email me as there is a place that does really good/cheap installations near me. They have do well over 50 systems so they know what they are doing.
ringram said:
Some of us like power oversteer, its half the fun of the car. Mine was switched permanently off all the time.
Is that safe you say? Maybe not, but neither is smoking, drinking, eating or in fact living.. they are all terminal past times
Is that safe you say? Maybe not, but neither is smoking, drinking, eating or in fact living.. they are all terminal past times
...unless you have FI, then it's suicide, especially in the wet
Turbo T said:
habitualvoyeur said:
I managed about 80 meters at 35mph sideways into a road sign with the traction control on, but that was another story.
Race logic is a "must have" in my opinion, but we have all discussed that one many times before
Regards Neil
RLTC is an awesome piece of kit, made even better when you fine tune the settings with the correct DAT file (email me if you need it). I really wouldnt want a high powere RWD car without it.
Anyone in the SE that wants RLTC fitted email me as there is a place that does really good/cheap installations near me. They have do well over 50 systems so they know what they are doing.
hi can you give me the details of where they are as im looking my self at having recelogic fitted sometime when i have some spare cash thanks
wormus said:
ringram said:
Some of us like power oversteer, its half the fun of the car. Mine was switched permanently off all the time.
Is that safe you say? Maybe not, but neither is smoking, drinking, eating or in fact living.. they are all terminal past times
...unless you have FI, then it's suicide, especially in the wet Is that safe you say? Maybe not, but neither is smoking, drinking, eating or in fact living.. they are all terminal past times
Thats why I like these cars. Try is with the Jag and traction control off.. Stabilty control will not turn off you get electronic throttle reduction etc, rubbish, whats the point!Horses for courses I guess..
Stability control os different though to traction control.
Traction control will only generally come in when both rear wheels are losing traction - pulling away from traffic lights for example. Stability control is more when one wheel has lost more traction than the other so is more common in conrerning situations. As SC uses differential braking it must also reduce engine power or the brakes will be cooked very quickly.
I like having the controls switchable and I do think that "off" should mean "off"
Traction control will only generally come in when both rear wheels are losing traction - pulling away from traffic lights for example. Stability control is more when one wheel has lost more traction than the other so is more common in conrerning situations. As SC uses differential braking it must also reduce engine power or the brakes will be cooked very quickly.
I like having the controls switchable and I do think that "off" should mean "off"
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