Is this the right policy?

[mark69sheer]

My son came home last night and said his friend had been stopped by the police as they were driving out of town to collect a friend.

The time was 11.20pm

My sons friend is a new (sub 1 yr) driver.

He was stopped for doing 34 in a 30 limit on a road leading out of town.

Now part of me thinks..well tough luck because he would have probably had 36mph indicated on his speedo.

But another part of me thinks here's a 17 yr old lad. In a car with his friends obviously trying to drive somewhere near the speed limit perhaps distracted by talking to friends he has strayed one maybe two miles and hour past the trigger speed for an offence if that and the police have issued an NIP.

Surely they would have been better knowing he had a clean licence and was a new driver to just give him a warning.
This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing. It took me a long time to develop my jaded views and my speeding offences as a youngster were allways in the range of 83mph and over on motorways so I never felt miffed about getting copped.

Doesn't policing such as this just breed resentment and apathy towards helping the police.

There is also the side issue here that the officer showed the guys the laser gun but the display was blank but then he said well my colleage and I saw it.

I don't want this thread to be about the legality or otherwise of the pull but wether policing such as this is good for the nation as a whole.

[esselte]

Did he get a NIP ie is he going to be reported for it?

[Sheriff JWPepper]

Mark, it all seems to happen to you doesn't it. Does the lad have any points already as I've have thought he would get a warning for that speed, if they bothered to stop him at all, and at the most an FPN. Can see him being summonsed unless there were other matters which were not disclosed to you.

[mark69sheer]

My son says his friend was given an NIP and that he was told he was going to get three points on his licence. he wasn't breathalised but other drivers stopped at the scene were it seemed to have been a big clampdown.
he has no previous driving convictions and is a 17yr old nearly 18yr old lad with a new polo bought by his parents.

He said he was going to go to court since when the officers showed him the laser with his torch it wasn't showing anything and the officer went back to the car and had a word with his colleague before returning and saying that they had both seen the reading.

as mentioned I am not bothered about the technical ins and outs just wether this is the right way to go about treating young motorists.


There is an argument here to say that if I was a young motorist without any points I would ingnore speed limits and drive 20mph above them whenever I felt like it knowing that at least when I got my first three points I would have earned them in the meantime I would have enjoyed the fun of blatently ignoring the limits and having some fun.

You may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb as they say.

It seems very harsh if a modern youth can end up with two similar offences to this resulting in disqualification and a retest leading to high if any insurance at all presuming he will even get any when based on his speed he was obviously trying to stay there or thereabouts to the limit.

Policing policy really does need to be considered. This target culture has just alienated another prospective fine upstanding police supporter.
He claims he we go to court and fight , They also had the 'why don't they arrest real criminals discussion as well, allthough not in earshot of the police as they are good little middle class kids.

[vonhosen]

The NIP doesn't mean he will receive a summons.
The fact he has it hanging over him, may just mean that he drives carefully for a while (if you see what I mean ).

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 24th November 22:23

[mark69sheer]

vonhosen said:

The NIP doesn't mean he will receive a summons.
The fact he has it hanging over him, may just mean that he drives carefully for a while (if you see what I mean ).

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 24th November 22:23

Well hopefully this is the case.

I don't condone getting caught for speeding in 30mph zones but this road is an arterial route the main A road from Harrogate to Leeds and it is a wide road three lanes wide where doing 34 will still feel as if you are crawling.I am allways very careful on it as I know it is regularly policed.
The stop was about 100metres from where it changes to a 50mph road.

I know when I have ever been stopped for speeding by an officer I was allways told that the evidence would be put before the chief constable and considered. lol I allways thought I wonder what he will say? but invariably I was prosecuted but I deserved it when I was young unlike this poor lad.

The officer actually told the lad he would be getting points when the lad asked what would happen.

[krallicious]

I agree that the police do need to exercise some common sense in these situations. I know that young drivers need to be a lot better educated with regard to the laws of the road, but surely a stern word would have been more effective than points and a fine.

I was caught speeding 3 months after passing my test. I was lasered by a copper in an old black ford orion that was parked in a layby. The road contained no speed signs but the lamp posts were less than 276 yards apart (I believe that is the correct distance) so the limit was 30 mph. I never knew this was a rule. I thought, no sign = national speed limit. I was doing 56. A nice policeman knocked on my door the following evening and had a chat with me. He said I was going to be summoned but as I was a new driver I would most likely receive a good ticking off, and the worse case scenario would be 3 points and a small fine. The Mag threw the book at me. 6 points and a £250 fine for 'racing'(I was the only car on the road) as she put it . I was also informed that as a new driver I should have the Highway code fresh in my mind and know that if lamp posts are less than a certain distance apart and there is no sign to indicate the speed, the road is a 30 mph road. I was never told this by my driving instructer nor read it in the Highway Code. I thought my licence would be revoked as I was in the probationary period. I felt as if the policeman had just lied to me and the justice system was a bloody joke. It was a lovely introduction to driving. And to add insult to injury, they stuck 30mph signs on the bit of road I was lasered on 3 months after my date with the Mag.

[Parrot of Doom]

Maybe the 17 year old lad gave the officer a bit of lip. You never know.

[Towie]

My lad or wife diligently drove out of Norwich at exactly 39mph last weekend. Except they was in a 30 limit. NiP arrived this morning

[ypauly]

Parrot of Doom said:

Maybe the 17 year old lad gave the officer a bit of lip. You never know.

seconded
i cant believe a police officer would be so petty
i have been stopped on several occasions and always given the benefit of the doubt. maybe because i was polite and respectful always answered straight questions with straight answers

[mark69sheer]

Parrot of Doom said:

Maybe the 17 year old lad gave the officer a bit of lip. You never know.

I will ask about 'the lip' allthough I find it very unlikely knowing the lad concerned.


On 'the lip' topic I see on TV scrotes F'ing and blinding at police and they are just told to behave and move on.

I guess this is another example of picking on the law abiding tax paying conforming element of society while allowing the scroat scumbag element to F and blind to their hearts content , rob burgle steal and stuff drugs into their body and a whole host of apologists are standing by from counsellors to social services to ensure nothing happens to them.

[TripleS]

Unless there was some element of 'lip' or suchlike from the young man, I would have preferred the officers to advise him to take more care about his speed, and try to get a general safe driving message across, and leave it at that in this case.

I rather feel that would have done more good than possibly stirring up any latent rebellious feelings that the youngster may have. It does, after all, sound like a very minor trangression, and I'm sure they could find plenty of more deserving cases for stern action.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Edited by TripleS on Sunday 25th November 18:56

[Big Fat F'r]

mark69sheer said:

This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing.

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

That aside, can we have a bit of sense here. What the hell has happened to growing up and taking it like a man.

I can assure you that back in the day, I was involved with everything from petty to not so petty. Yet not once did we seriously knock the BiB. Yes, we moaned, but that was it. It didn't ruin our lives, we didn't feel picked on, and we didn't form bad impressions of the Rozzers, who were only doing a job.

One of the reasons was that we didn't have do gooders like yourself telling us how hard done by we were.

There are some really bad things going on in the world. So tell the young lad to grow up and take it on the chin. Then do the same yourself, and stop propogating this rot.

BFF

[Greendubber]

Big Fat F'r said:

mark69sheer said:

This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing.

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

That aside, can we have a bit of sense here. What the hell has happened to growing up and taking it like a man.

I can assure you that back in the day, I was involved with everything from petty to not so petty. Yet not once did we seriously knock the BiB. Yes, we moaned, but that was it. It didn't ruin our lives, we didn't feel picked on, and we didn't form bad impressions of the Rozzers, who were only doing a job.

One of the reasons was that we didn't have do gooders like yourself telling us how hard done by we were.

There are some really bad things going on in the world. So tell the young lad to grow up and take it on the chin. Then do the same yourself, and stop propogating this rot.

BFF

Agreed.

[esselte]

Big Fat F'r said:

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

what are you trying to say?.....

[TripleS]

Greendubber said:

Big Fat F'r said:

mark69sheer said:

This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing.

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

That aside, can we have a bit of sense here. What the hell has happened to growing up and taking it like a man.

I can assure you that back in the day, I was involved with everything from petty to not so petty. Yet not once did we seriously knock the BiB. Yes, we moaned, but that was it. It didn't ruin our lives, we didn't feel picked on, and we didn't form bad impressions of the Rozzers, who were only doing a job.

One of the reasons was that we didn't have do gooders like yourself telling us how hard done by we were.

There are some really bad things going on in the world. So tell the young lad to grow up and take it on the chin. Then do the same yourself, and stop propogating this rot.

BFF

Agreed.

Not agreed. More good would have been done by having a quiet word in a case like this.

The 'take it on the chin' attitude is all very well when somebody is caught doing something more serious, and stern action becomes more appropriate, but in this case a degree of alienation may have been created quite unnecessarily. With young drivers in particular, the police ought to be showing a degree of understanding and trying to encourage the right attitude. That would be a better investment.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Big Fat F'r]

TripleS said:

Greendubber said:

Big Fat F'r said:

mark69sheer said:

This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing.

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

That aside, can we have a bit of sense here. What the hell has happened to growing up and taking it like a man.

I can assure you that back in the day, I was involved with everything from petty to not so petty. Yet not once did we seriously knock the BiB. Yes, we moaned, but that was it. It didn't ruin our lives, we didn't feel picked on, and we didn't form bad impressions of the Rozzers, who were only doing a job.

One of the reasons was that we didn't have do gooders like yourself telling us how hard done by we were.

There are some really bad things going on in the world. So tell the young lad to grow up and take it on the chin. Then do the same yourself, and stop propogating this rot.

BFF

Agreed.

Not agreed. More good would have been done by having a quiet word in a case like this.

The 'take it on the chin' attitude is all very well when somebody is caught doing something more serious, and stern action becomes more appropriate, but in this case a degree of alienation may have been created quite unnecessarily. With young drivers in particular, the police ought to be showing a degree of understanding and trying to encourage the right attitude. That would be a better investment.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Each to his own.

Lets remember, the lad himself hasn't complained, just Mr Unlucky on his behalf.

In the old days, the lad's family and friends would have called him an idiot for doing it, or an idiot for getting caught. But nowadays the bleeding heart softies tell him how unlucky he is, and how harsh he has been treated, and how he needs to be molly coddled. No wonder a lot of them grow up to think the world owes them a living.

The world owes them sod all, and the sooner they realise it the better. Bring back flogging, get those on the dole up chimneys cleaning them, and make speeding a Capital offence - then he would have something to worry about.

Oh, and how do you know that more good would have been done by simply having a word. I know a lot of little scroats that didn't change until they got something official.

BFF

Edited by Big Fat F'r on Sunday 25th November 12:40

[Hooli]

maybe because in those 'old days' people mention the thing the plod had a word with you about was actually a genuine reason for plod to be involved. rather than a slight misdemenour which isnt worth more than a word.

[Greendubber]

TripleS said:

Greendubber said:

Big Fat F'r said:

mark69sheer said:

This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing.

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

That aside, can we have a bit of sense here. What the hell has happened to growing up and taking it like a man.

I can assure you that back in the day, I was involved with everything from petty to not so petty. Yet not once did we seriously knock the BiB. Yes, we moaned, but that was it. It didn't ruin our lives, we didn't feel picked on, and we didn't form bad impressions of the Rozzers, who were only doing a job.

One of the reasons was that we didn't have do gooders like yourself telling us how hard done by we were.

There are some really bad things going on in the world. So tell the young lad to grow up and take it on the chin. Then do the same yourself, and stop propogating this rot.

BFF

Agreed.

Not agreed. More good would have been done by having a quiet word in a case like this.

The 'take it on the chin' attitude is all very well when somebody is caught doing something more serious, and stern action becomes more appropriate, but in this case a degree of alienation may have been created quite unnecessarily. With young drivers in particular, the police ought to be showing a degree of understanding and trying to encourage the right attitude. That would be a better investment.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

At the end of the day the officer is doing his job, enforcing the law, its what he's paid to do.

We don't know the full circs here do we?. The lad could have been doing 50mph in a 30mph limit but I can bet Mark wouldn't post that as it wouldn't allow him to bitch and moan as he always does.

2 sides to every story, you're basing your opinion on what someone who seems to have a real issue with the Police is saying, I'd prefer to keep an open mind considering his previous posts.

[mark69sheer]

Big Fat F'r said:

mark69sheer said:

This young man now has within his first year of driving already had poor experience of policing.

You, your family and friends have to be the unluckiest group of people alive.

That aside, can we have a bit of sense here. What the hell has happened to growing up and taking it like a man.

I can assure you that back in the day, I was involved with everything from petty to not so petty. Yet not once did we seriously knock the BiB. Yes, we moaned, but that was it. It didn't ruin our lives, we didn't feel picked on, and we didn't form bad impressions of the Rozzers, who were only doing a job.

One of the reasons was that we didn't have do gooders like yourself telling us how hard done by we were.

There are some really bad things going on in the world. So tell the young lad to grow up and take it on the chin. Then do the same yourself, and stop propogating this rot.

BFF

When I was younger I used to speed and I got my punishment. 95mph on the motorway 90mph on the motorway and 83mph on the motorway.
three endorsements as they were in those days.
I never once felt hard done by and still had ultimate respect for the police. I was in the army at the time and got my tickets when travelling home on weekend leave.
Don't do the crime if you cant do the time as they say.
I haven't spoke to the lad or discussed it with my son. I am only passing on what he told me when he came in that night.
I don't want to get involved.
But am I unlucky?
This didn't happen to me just a friend of my son so I aren't unlucky.
I just report what I see its as I say pure coincidence and certainly not a propogation of rot as you described it.

Due to the fact that there was more than one motorist stopped at any one time this was obviously some form of clampdown.
The lad got caught up in it and now he has suffered.
I dare say he will take it on the chin as you say because unlike me he wasn't around when the system was better and had more sense so he will go along with Global Warming and Speed Kills and probably just accept it even though its a system generated deception.

As for me growing up , sadly that is exactly what I have done and perhaps I wish I still had childlike naivety.

Unfortunately my eyes have been opened