993 technical help

[F355spider]

Hi all

I've recently aquired a '97 993 c4 Cab and could do with finding any usefull forums for technical advice. Couple of immediate probs are that the climate controls not working and the oil guage isnt working.

All help appreciated

cheers

Rob

[Silver993tt]

how did you determine that the oil gauge isn't working?

[Pickled Piper]

Best sources for tech help are P-car.com, PCGB forum, Rennlist forum and here. Not necessarily in that order.

Are you sure your that your oil level gauge is not working? I was under the misapprehension that mine was faulty for over a year. The level looked fine on the dipstick. However, it just needed about half a pint adding to register on the level gauge.

pp

[BST]

...far from an expert but basically;

you have a dry sump.. the oil level and or pres. gauge only show true readings when A the car is up to temperature, and B you are at tick over.

So in a nutshell, go for a drive (long) warm her up, ensure she is up to temperature and find somewhere to stop on a level... hand brake on and out of gear, this is a true reading.

As you push her hard all the oil is sucked out of the sump (dry sump) and your oil level dial will show '0' and pres. will raise to 5bar...

Hope this helps, not had car long so I stand corrected if wrong???

B.

[F355spider]

Pickled Piper said:

Best sources for tech help are P-car.com, PCGB forum, Rennlist forum and here. Not necessarily in that order.

Are you sure your that your oil level gauge is not working? I was under the misapprehension that mine was faulty for over a year. The level looked fine on the dipstick. However, it just needed about half a pint adding to register on the level gauge.

pp

Gauge runs in the red and has not moved. Driven car for a good hour, registers half on the dip on tick over at temperature.

Edited by F355spider on Monday 26th November 20:03

[F355spider]

Any ideas on the climate control? Ordinary heater works - with either bloody hot or freezin cold. Sadly nowt inbetween..

[tertius]

Oil level guage or oil temperature guage or oil pressure? I assume not the last as I don't think this has a red section, but can't be bothered to pop outside to check ..

[thegoose]

F355spider said:

Pickled Piper said:

Best sources for tech help are P-car.com, PCGB forum, Rennlist forum and here. Not necessarily in that order.

Are you sure your that your oil level gauge is not working? I was under the misapprehension that mine was faulty for over a year. The level looked fine on the dipstick. However, it just needed about half a pint adding to register on the level gauge.

pp

Gauge runs in the red and has not moved. Driven car for a good hour, registers half on the dip on tick over at temperature.

Edited by F355spider on Monday 26th November 20:03

Do make sure your oil is up to temperature when you check, otherwise the thermostat isn't open so it won't be flowing everywhere. If you can securely leave it running for half an hour that may work better to warm it up as no air is moving to cool it. You may be able to check for oil-flow by feeling under the driver's side (on RHD) sill cover to see if the pipes are warm (or at leat the "engine out to oil cooler" pipe) or in the front of the front wheelarch on the cooler itself (the actual front wing itself will warm up eventually too). The oil temp gauge should be past the first mark when warm enough.

[F355spider]

thegoose said:

F355spider said:

Pickled Piper said:

Best sources for tech help are P-car.com, PCGB forum, Rennlist forum and here. Not necessarily in that order.

Are you sure your that your oil level gauge is not working? I was under the misapprehension that mine was faulty for over a year. The level looked fine on the dipstick. However, it just needed about half a pint adding to register on the level gauge.

pp

Gauge runs in the red and has not moved. Driven car for a good hour, registers half on the dip on tick over at temperature.

Edited by F355spider on Monday 26th November 20:03

Do make sure your oil is up to temperature when you check, otherwise the thermostat isn't open so it won't be flowing everywhere. If you can securely leave it running for half an hour that may work better to warm it up as no air is moving to cool it. You may be able to check for oil-flow by feeling under the driver's side (on RHD) sill cover to see if the pipes are warm (or at leat the "engine out to oil cooler" pipe) or in the front of the front wheelarch on the cooler itself (the actual front wing itself will warm up eventually too). The oil temp gauge should be past the first mark when warm enough.

Given that i had driven the car for over an hour, i would have thought the oil would have had more than enough opportunity to be up to temperature?

[F355spider]

tertius said:

Oil level guage or oil temperature guage or oil pressure? I assume not the last as I don't think this has a red section, but can't be bothered to pop outside to check ..

Oil level gauge, the one on the furthest left..

[graeme36s]

the goose is spot on. Driving the car for an hour is no guarantee that the engine oil is warm enough to open the thermostat. The oil tempreature guage needs to be between the half to three quarters mark to get a true reading. Your other problem is likely to be the console unit. Not cheap I'm afraid. Never had to replace one but I think you won't get much change from a £1000

[F355spider]

graeme36s said:

the goose is spot on. Driving the car for an hour is no guarantee that the engine oil is warm enough to open the thermostat. The oil tempreature guage needs to be between the half to three quarters mark to get a true reading. Your other problem is likely to be the console unit. Not cheap I'm afraid. Never had to replace one but I think you won't get much change from a £1000

Okey cheers Graeme, i guess it was pretty cold this afternoon as i drove the car back home. Thought on the climate control it might be something like a sensor fault, i understand theres a couple located behind the unit?

[tertius]

F355spider said:

tertius said:

Oil level guage or oil temperature guage or oil pressure? I assume not the last as I don't think this has a red section, but can't be bothered to pop outside to check ..

Oil level gauge, the one on the furthest left..

In my car the one on the furthest left is the fuel gauge ...

Reading left to right I have: [fuel gauge, oil level], [oil temp, oil pressure], tacho, speedo, clock

(square brackets indicate guages that share a dial)

Final thing to check (you may have mentioned this) - is the car absolutely level when you check it?

However, I suspect if the dipstick is giving a sensible reading AND the gauge is not then you are right you may have a problem with the gauge. I didn't think the dipstick would give a meaningful reading if the engine weren't hot.

[MTBR]

On my car, the oil level gauge only works with the top third or maybe even less of the dip stick. With the oil at 50% on the dip, the oil may be too low to register on the electric gauge, mine would be. Don't worry, you still have plenty of oil in the engine. The really important gauges are the oil pressure gauge and then the oil temp gauge.

As part of getting to know your car, you can check the dip stick at various points on the temp gauge, to see how the level changes with oil temp. It moves more than you might expect
.
The oil should only be near the top mark on the dip when it is _all_ hot.
You can "see" the stat open if you pay attention to the temp gauge during the first 15 miles or so from cold. The temp rises and then drops back, as the stat opens, then rises again as the rest of the oil reaches running temp.

The trap for the unfamiliar, is that if you fill the oil tank up to the top mark (on the dip stick) with the oil merely warm, then when the oil gets really hot (which it does, if your drive it the way it is supposed to be driven) you will find a large cloud of smoke following you around! Joking aside, it's really not good for the engine.

I aim to keep my oil level such that; when the temp gauge is around the 3/4 mark, the dip stick is just off the full mark. This coincides with the oil level gauge being just above the half mark. I would expect the electric gauges in each car to be slightly different, but provided you know how the gauge and the dip stick compare for your car, it is a useful indicator.

The oil level gauge can very easily make you anxious, but a quick glance at the oil pressure gauge is usually reassuring!

Edit: The climate control is a complete mystery to me!

Edited by MTBR on Tuesday 27th November 02:58

[F355spider]

tertius said:

F355spider said:

tertius said:

Oil level guage or oil temperature guage or oil pressure? I assume not the last as I don't think this has a red section, but can't be bothered to pop outside to check ..

Oil level gauge, the one on the furthest left..

In my car the one on the furthest left is the fuel gauge ...

Reading left to right I have: [fuel gauge, oil level], [oil temp, oil pressure], tacho, speedo, clock

(square brackets indicate guages that share a dial)

Final thing to check (you may have mentioned this) - is the car absolutely level when you check it?

However, I suspect if the dipstick is giving a sensible reading AND the gauge is not then you are right you may have a problem with the gauge. I didn't think the dipstick would give a meaningful reading if the engine weren't hot.

Yes car absolutely level (in my garage) and i meant furthest 'oil related' gauge on the left Dipstick IS giving sensible reading as initially stated.

[F355spider]

MTBR said:

.

The trap for the unfamiliar, is that if you fill the oil tank up to the top mark (on the dip stick) with the oil merely warm, then when the oil gets really hot (which it does, if your drive it the way it is supposed to be driven) you will find a large cloud of smoke following you around! Joking aside, it's really not good for the engine.

Edited by MTBR on Tuesday 27th November 02:58

Cheers ! Yes its very easy to be fooled by a dry sump, Ferraris are the same way. Vividly remember the taste of oil as i syphoned the excess oil that i'd over filled my first 355 with. Fortunately i'd realised my error and hadnt got as far as running the engine!

So nothing concrete on the climate control problem from anyone?

[Silver993tt]

F355spider said:

So nothing concrete on the climate control problem from anyone?

Maybe it simply needs a regas?

[Pickled Piper]

Silver993tt said:

F355spider said:

So nothing concrete on the climate control problem from anyone?

Maybe it simply needs a regas?

The climate control on these cars is something of a misnomer. The control is so poor that you end up continually adjusting the temperature knob. If left to its own devices it does tend to blow either hot or too cold with nothing in beween.

I would recommend having it plugged into a diagnostic unit at a Porsche garage. this will tell you if the control unit is functioning correctly and if there any obvious sensor failures.

Sorry can't be any more help.

pp

[F355spider]

Silver993tt said:

F355spider said:

So nothing concrete on the climate control problem from anyone?

Maybe it simply needs a regas?

Re-gassed in July 07 so 'should' still be ok..

[king_kenny]

Hello,
My first post..im a rennlister..been lurking for a while though.

I would suggest you search on forums.rennlist.com and search in the 993 or 964 forums searching under HVAC. There is also some technical info on the system on www.porsche964.co.uk. The 964 and 993 systems are VERY similar. If you want to diagnose on this forum, we will need to know exactly what you are doing and what the system is doing. Basically there are 5 servos in all.... 1 for opening/closing to external air, one for opening/closing footwell flow, one for opening closing windscreen flow, and 2 cold/hot air mixers... there is also a temp sensor in the control unit in the dash.

Faults can occur with he servos, the control unit, the temp sensor and the hot air blower in the engine comp...
Taj.