Pre-tuning checks?
Discussion
Hi all - I've owned my 4.5 for a couple of months now, and read plenty on here about remapping releasing a few more horses and (IMO as important) making the engine smoother lower down the rev range. I'm thinking of going for a remap (or at least the trackcar tuning chip and RR checks) in the new year at some point.
With this in mind, my question is whether it's worth getting compression tests (or any other checks) done before starting down this route.
I know with turbo'd cars it's very wise to get compression tests done before "turning the wick up" through chipping/bigger turbo etc but have not heard any mention of people doing such checks on a Cerb (other than an initial RR run to check baseline bhp, power/torque curves and fuelling). I'm discounting S6 compression checks done for peace of mind, rather than pre-tuning.
Any views? Does chipping/remapping put any more stress on the engine? Logically, I would expect it to, but I don't know whether the "tuning" aspect of 4.5 mapping is quite light, and as such is about making the engine run more efficiently?
PS - My car had a good inspection report by Rob Ingleby, and is currently in the process of having a new clutch and Gaz Nickels, and has recently had all new purple pipes, so this seems like a logical next step (i.e. I (hopefully) won't be spending mapping money when it would be better spent elsewhere!
)
With this in mind, my question is whether it's worth getting compression tests (or any other checks) done before starting down this route.
I know with turbo'd cars it's very wise to get compression tests done before "turning the wick up" through chipping/bigger turbo etc but have not heard any mention of people doing such checks on a Cerb (other than an initial RR run to check baseline bhp, power/torque curves and fuelling). I'm discounting S6 compression checks done for peace of mind, rather than pre-tuning.
Any views? Does chipping/remapping put any more stress on the engine? Logically, I would expect it to, but I don't know whether the "tuning" aspect of 4.5 mapping is quite light, and as such is about making the engine run more efficiently?
PS - My car had a good inspection report by Rob Ingleby, and is currently in the process of having a new clutch and Gaz Nickels, and has recently had all new purple pipes, so this seems like a logical next step (i.e. I (hopefully) won't be spending mapping money when it would be better spent elsewhere!
)I put mine on a local RR to get an ideas as to how healthy the engine was before I spent money on any tuning work. Probably a good place to start for £30-40.
As for wasting money on a re-map I would say your only going to be wasting money if you do it before you do any other mods your planning i.e. induction and exhaust as to get the best from them you'll need to map it again. Then again coming from a turbo tuning background you probably already know that.
If your cars healthy and theres nothing that needs repairing/replacing then you definatly not going to be wasting your money on a re-map. I did loads of research before I had mine done and its probably the most cost effective way to get more HP and improve the power delivery that you can do to 4.5 cerb. Go for it
As for wasting money on a re-map I would say your only going to be wasting money if you do it before you do any other mods your planning i.e. induction and exhaust as to get the best from them you'll need to map it again. Then again coming from a turbo tuning background you probably already know that.
If your cars healthy and theres nothing that needs repairing/replacing then you definatly not going to be wasting your money on a re-map. I did loads of research before I had mine done and its probably the most cost effective way to get more HP and improve the power delivery that you can do to 4.5 cerb. Go for it
Nah. I think I'm right here in saying that the valve timing would be the single biggest cause of power loss in your engine beyond checking you'd actually got all eight plugs firing Do static compression/leak test while you have the plugs out and you can see TDC.
Doing the valves yourself is not THAT difficult but requires a degree of confidence.
The most dangerous bit is removing the cam wheel bolts (drop one down the front and you will be a long time kicking yourself.
Do static compression/leak test while you have the plugs out and you can see TDC.Doing the valves yourself is not THAT difficult but requires a degree of confidence.
The most dangerous bit is removing the cam wheel bolts (drop one down the front and you will be a long time kicking yourself.
Ah, I see, thanks - is poor cam-timing a common issue then? From what you're saying, if I took it to a rolling road, and it knocked out 330-360bhp (i.e. roughly standard figures for a non Red Rose 4.5) it could still be out?
I'm not particularly mechanically minded - in fact, if I ever find myself with a cam wheel bolt in my hand, it's time to call the producers of "When Car Maintenance Goes Bad"
I'm not particularly mechanically minded - in fact, if I ever find myself with a cam wheel bolt in my hand, it's time to call the producers of "When Car Maintenance Goes Bad"
BCA said:
I think you'll find Trackcar wont try any upgrades on your car unless he is happy that it is all running healthily anyway...
I don't think its a slight on indies. But I don't think jules would know.How would you know a Cerbs timing was out. It may be producing a degree of bhp less but how d'ya know whether thats just because its a good engine or not. A cerb with its timing suboptimal would run just as healthily (unless it was way out of course).
Does any indie do a cam timing and tappet check before a remap as standard? I doubt it.
caduceus said:
_Neal_ said:
, just a fiat coupé 20vt 
Great great car I had one before the Cerb, and its the only car I have owned so far that I would definately buy another of. Apart from the Cerb ofcourse
Cyclone also had one before his Cerb - any other closet Coupé owners on here?
julian64 said:
A cerb with its timing suboptimal would run just as healthily (unless it was way out of course).
When you say "just as healthily" do you mean just as safely, or just as powerfully, but not as safely? If it's the former, then surely checking pre-tuning is OTT? Could be b*llocks, but it would seem to me that if you're making solid bhp, fuelling right etc, just have the re-map/chip done, then re-check when you (in the ordinary course of maintenance) have the tappets/timing done.
Be interesting to the hear views of trackcar and other indies/tuners on this.
If you are looking for a good company to take your car to try TrackVroad in Clitheroe. There technicians have built and worked on many race car engines, (Including TVR's) and they really seem to know there stuff! plus they are down to earth guys aswel and will only advise you on stuff which is tried and tested! not just perfomance parts which will cost ££££ and only last two mins!
Also i have spoke to many people at TVR meetings who recomend them for setting up aftermarket suspension, thats why my cerbs going there!
Also i have spoke to many people at TVR meetings who recomend them for setting up aftermarket suspension, thats why my cerbs going there!
kirk2118 said:
If you are looking for a good company to take your car to try TrackVroad in Clitheroe. There technicians have built and worked on many race car engines, (Including TVR's) and they really seem to know there stuff! plus they are down to earth guys aswel and will only advise you on stuff which is tried and tested! not just perfomance parts which will cost ££££ and only last two mins!
Also i have spoke to many people at TVR meetings who recomend them for setting up aftermarket suspension, thats why my cerbs going there!
Which parts only last 2 mins? Also i have spoke to many people at TVR meetings who recomend them for setting up aftermarket suspension, thats why my cerbs going there!
_Neal_ said:
julian64 said:
A cerb with its timing suboptimal would run just as healthily (unless it was way out of course).
When you say "just as healthily" do you mean just as safely, or just as powerfully, but not as safely? If it's the former, then surely checking pre-tuning is OTT? Could be b*llocks, but it would seem to me that if you're making solid bhp, fuelling right etc, just have the re-map/chip done, then re-check when you (in the ordinary course of maintenance) have the tappets/timing done.
Be interesting to the hear views of trackcar and other indies/tuners on this.
Julian64 is right though in that if the car appears sound and makes good hp to start with (anything like 330hp plus for a 4.5 cerbie) then I'd just go ahead and remap it rather than go looking for faults that probably aren't there ...
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