Big zoom advice for Nikon?
Discussion
Hi guys.
Quite fancy motorsport photography and also having something for when I go on safari. However having real difficulty working out which lens is the best choice to go with my d300. I'm considering the following (with my thoughts below) :
1 Nikon 70-200 AFS VR & TC 14E
+ One of the best lenses nikon makes.
+ Ideal for portraits etc.
+ It will keep its value and I'll have that warm feeling of knowing I have a brilliant lens.
- I have no real interest in portraits, and the warm feeling will pass quickly if it doesn't cut the mustard in reach terms.
- Not really got the reach I want, even with a TC and people seem to frown on using them with zooms.
- heavy.
- big overlap with my 18-200 afs vr which is my practical lens...
2 Nikon 80-400 VR
- No AFS
+ VR
- gen 1 VR
- tried one today and focussing disappointed, although not the easiest test as I was trying to track a bus in continuous focus at 20m and it tended to work in leaps from being in focus pausing and losing it, then leaping again. Also this one just didn't want to focus at 400mm on the wall 30m away - was fine at 380mm.
- expensive and yet somewhat disappointing.
-(?) will nikon do an AFS version, and if so will this be worth 50p second hand as everyone dumps them for the upgrade.
3 Sigma 50-500 ('Bigma')
+ AFS (equiv)
- No VR which is a significant downside with this much reach.
- big & heavy.
- apparently not the greatest optics, but at 999 USD thats maybe not a fair complaint?!
4 Nikon 70-300 AFS VR
+ AFS
+ VR
+ light
+ cheap as chips.
- to an extent you get what you pay for.
- reach not quite what I want.
5 Nikon 300 F4
+ AFS.
+ very good quality.
+ works well with converters.
- its a prime so lacking in flexibility and I don't really know whether it will suit.
- no VR.
I think ideally I'd wait a bit longer before commiting to anything as I confess I've only recently got into photography. However, I'm in new york next week, the fx rate is blinding and potentially even if I buy the wrong lens I can ebay it and not lose hideous amounts.
What I really want is a canon 100-400, but I wanted the 18-200 nikor, and I prefer the d300 to the canon alternatives in the price bracket.
So what to buy, what to buy? Cost is an issue, but doesn't hold massive sway if the lens is potentially a keeper (e.g. 70-200). Recommendations please!
p.s. forgot to say, what reach do I need for taking photos at circuits so that I'm not regularly thinking I wish I had more. Obviously this is an APS-C camera so it does have 1.5x crop.
Quite fancy motorsport photography and also having something for when I go on safari. However having real difficulty working out which lens is the best choice to go with my d300. I'm considering the following (with my thoughts below) :
1 Nikon 70-200 AFS VR & TC 14E
+ One of the best lenses nikon makes.
+ Ideal for portraits etc.
+ It will keep its value and I'll have that warm feeling of knowing I have a brilliant lens.
- I have no real interest in portraits, and the warm feeling will pass quickly if it doesn't cut the mustard in reach terms.
- Not really got the reach I want, even with a TC and people seem to frown on using them with zooms.
- heavy.
- big overlap with my 18-200 afs vr which is my practical lens...
2 Nikon 80-400 VR
- No AFS
+ VR
- gen 1 VR
- tried one today and focussing disappointed, although not the easiest test as I was trying to track a bus in continuous focus at 20m and it tended to work in leaps from being in focus pausing and losing it, then leaping again. Also this one just didn't want to focus at 400mm on the wall 30m away - was fine at 380mm.
- expensive and yet somewhat disappointing.
-(?) will nikon do an AFS version, and if so will this be worth 50p second hand as everyone dumps them for the upgrade.
3 Sigma 50-500 ('Bigma')
+ AFS (equiv)
- No VR which is a significant downside with this much reach.
- big & heavy.
- apparently not the greatest optics, but at 999 USD thats maybe not a fair complaint?!
4 Nikon 70-300 AFS VR
+ AFS
+ VR
+ light
+ cheap as chips.
- to an extent you get what you pay for.
- reach not quite what I want.
5 Nikon 300 F4
+ AFS.
+ very good quality.
+ works well with converters.
- its a prime so lacking in flexibility and I don't really know whether it will suit.
- no VR.
I think ideally I'd wait a bit longer before commiting to anything as I confess I've only recently got into photography. However, I'm in new york next week, the fx rate is blinding and potentially even if I buy the wrong lens I can ebay it and not lose hideous amounts.
What I really want is a canon 100-400, but I wanted the 18-200 nikor, and I prefer the d300 to the canon alternatives in the price bracket.
So what to buy, what to buy? Cost is an issue, but doesn't hold massive sway if the lens is potentially a keeper (e.g. 70-200). Recommendations please!
p.s. forgot to say, what reach do I need for taking photos at circuits so that I'm not regularly thinking I wish I had more. Obviously this is an APS-C camera so it does have 1.5x crop.
Edited by DanH on Thursday 29th November 01:57
I've got a Nikon D80 and use a Nikkor 300mm F4 for motorsport. It gives a noticeably better image than my Nikkor 70-200mm VR F4 IMHO - although that's not a bad lens. It's also metal and built like a brick $hit house. Yes you lose some flexibility but especially for circuit work where you're probably taking a lot of shots in one position then it works well. My other two penn'orth is to get a monopod. Zoom or prime at 300mm any movement will give a less than sharp image and for £40 or so they will make all the difference. I've got a Manfrotto for what it's worth.
Good luck.
Good luck.
I have the 80-400 and as you say it is quite tricky (and slow) to focus. As you saw it's also HUGE so not best suited to rattling around with on safari. I also have the 70-300 (not the VR version, but same glass) which as you know is a LOT smaller and easier to carry round. The thing is, with your D300 your images will be the same size as mine (D2X) and can easilly crop down considerably without destroying quality. this photo is a crop from the 70-300... using much less than 50% of the frame.
http://www.stevecarter.com/2005/ng5.jpg
Having said all this If I'm out in my car with my tripod, I'll take the 80-400 as the extra length is really useful.
Steve
http://www.stevecarter.com/2005/ng5.jpg
Having said all this If I'm out in my car with my tripod, I'll take the 80-400 as the extra length is really useful.
Steve
I'd say that most of my motor racing shots were taken with lens focal lengths from about 200mm - 600mm on a full frame DSLR (so 130mm - 400mm for your camera).
I mainly use a 100-400, and did have a 300mm f2.8 (600mm with a 2xTC), but this hardly got used so I sold it recently.
The lens range of the 80-400 sounds ideal, although it sounds like the slow focusing could be an issue. What about the 200-400? Quite pricey and big/heavy, but looks like a very good lens and probably the one I'd go for.
I mainly use a 100-400, and did have a 300mm f2.8 (600mm with a 2xTC), but this hardly got used so I sold it recently.
The lens range of the 80-400 sounds ideal, although it sounds like the slow focusing could be an issue. What about the 200-400? Quite pricey and big/heavy, but looks like a very good lens and probably the one I'd go for.
Thanks guys. I think I'm going to have another go with the 80-400 and look into the sigma option 120-300 as that sounds a nice and fast piece of glass.
Can't afford the 200-400 f4 unfortunately. Its 2.5k in NY + taxes + import duty, and even more over here. Also somewhat on the large and professional side!
Steve - I didn't think the 80-400 was too big. Much easier than the 70-200!
Can't afford the 200-400 f4 unfortunately. Its 2.5k in NY + taxes + import duty, and even more over here. Also somewhat on the large and professional side!
Steve - I didn't think the 80-400 was too big. Much easier than the 70-200!
Edited by DanH on Thursday 29th November 09:51
_dobbo_ said:
As an 80-400 owner, I'd prefer a 70-200 f/2.8 and a 2x converter. I'd possibly go for a Sigma 70-200 though, rather than the Nikon.
I'll sell you my 80-400 if you want, I never use it!
Can you expand on what you don't like a bit?I'll sell you my 80-400 if you want, I never use it!
I went back to jessops and had a play with it again. Really liked the zoom, but still not 100% happy with the focussing. I had the intermittent issue again where it would not focus at 400mm although it was ok at 399 etc. Camera would just sit there not trying to focus at all, and it wasn't like it was lit up thinking it had successful lock.
From what I've read the 70-200 + tele is worse quality that the 400 although at least you have AFS motors and VR mk2.
Went for the 70-200 & 2x TC in the end. Not tried the TC on it yet, but lots of people rate the combo. The 70-200 is a thing of wonder.
Having never walked around with a long lens like that before though, I was surprised how much people register your presence. No way you can keep a low profile!
Having never walked around with a long lens like that before though, I was surprised how much people register your presence. No way you can keep a low profile!
Interested in your comment that you're "new to photography", and you've cracked in with a D300 and starting a shopping list of some quite exotic glass.
Speaking as a photographer of 30 years both professional and now an amateur, don't get blinded by the thought that the best equipment is going to produce instant top quality images.
Concentrate on getting your technique right, get a feel for composition (rule of thirds and when to break it!), understand exposure as even the all singing and dancing cameras don't always get it right, study light (natural!) and how to use it, and gradually you'll find you're taking better and better photos.
A safari is always a bit of a one off for instance - most of the best animal shots are taken early morning and evening when they are out, light levels can be low, so practise handholding longish lenses at low shutter speeds etc.
Best of luck whatever, watch out for British customs if you're bringing in expensive lens' from the States (have been caught once and never again!), and let us see your results. If you're off to New York, get a wide angle and get some stunning architecture shots!!
Speaking as a photographer of 30 years both professional and now an amateur, don't get blinded by the thought that the best equipment is going to produce instant top quality images.
Concentrate on getting your technique right, get a feel for composition (rule of thirds and when to break it!), understand exposure as even the all singing and dancing cameras don't always get it right, study light (natural!) and how to use it, and gradually you'll find you're taking better and better photos.
A safari is always a bit of a one off for instance - most of the best animal shots are taken early morning and evening when they are out, light levels can be low, so practise handholding longish lenses at low shutter speeds etc.
Best of luck whatever, watch out for British customs if you're bringing in expensive lens' from the States (have been caught once and never again!), and let us see your results. If you're off to New York, get a wide angle and get some stunning architecture shots!!
CivicMan said:
Interested in your comment that you're "new to photography", and you've cracked in with a D300 and starting a shopping list of some quite exotic glass.
Speaking as a photographer of 30 years both professional and now an amateur, don't get blinded by the thought that the best equipment is going to produce instant top quality images.
Concentrate on getting your technique right, get a feel for composition (rule of thirds and when to break it!), understand exposure as even the all singing and dancing cameras don't always get it right, study light (natural!) and how to use it, and gradually you'll find you're taking better and better photos.
A safari is always a bit of a one off for instance - most of the best animal shots are taken early morning and evening when they are out, light levels can be low, so practise handholding longish lenses at low shutter speeds etc.
Best of luck whatever, watch out for British customs if you're bringing in expensive lens' from the States (have been caught once and never again!), and let us see your results. If you're off to New York, get a wide angle and get some stunning architecture shots!!
Yeah I have a 10-20 wide angle. Didn't take many photos on the trip though as only had time in the evenings and that adds a whole new level of complexity. Actually finding the wide far harder to get even reasonable results with than any other lens. If a wide angle shot looks like it ought to be visually symmetrical but is even slightly out it looks terribly unbalanced.Speaking as a photographer of 30 years both professional and now an amateur, don't get blinded by the thought that the best equipment is going to produce instant top quality images.
Concentrate on getting your technique right, get a feel for composition (rule of thirds and when to break it!), understand exposure as even the all singing and dancing cameras don't always get it right, study light (natural!) and how to use it, and gradually you'll find you're taking better and better photos.
A safari is always a bit of a one off for instance - most of the best animal shots are taken early morning and evening when they are out, light levels can be low, so practise handholding longish lenses at low shutter speeds etc.
Best of luck whatever, watch out for British customs if you're bringing in expensive lens' from the States (have been caught once and never again!), and let us see your results. If you're off to New York, get a wide angle and get some stunning architecture shots!!
Anyway, you are right, time to knuckle down and learn how to use the kit now.
p.s. what happened to you at customs, and surely you'd have an issue every time you went abroad if they stop people regularly and challenge on cameras/glass? Do they expect you to post them copies of receipts which you may not even have!?!
Learn from my mistake!
Camera shop in New York gave me two receipts, one for actual price and one for UK customs showing a lower price.
Duly declared lens at customs (I was working as cabin crew in those days and customs were hot on us), and stupidly managed to pull out both receipts!
Ended up paying the full price customs duty, the full VAT, and fined the whole cost of the lens.
Learnt my lesson and have never tried to con customs again!
Camera shop in New York gave me two receipts, one for actual price and one for UK customs showing a lower price.
Duly declared lens at customs (I was working as cabin crew in those days and customs were hot on us), and stupidly managed to pull out both receipts!
Ended up paying the full price customs duty, the full VAT, and fined the whole cost of the lens.
Learnt my lesson and have never tried to con customs again!
CivicMan said:
Learn from my mistake!
Camera shop in New York gave me two receipts, one for actual price and one for UK customs showing a lower price.
Duly declared lens at customs (I was working as cabin crew in those days and customs were hot on us), and stupidly managed to pull out both receipts!
Ended up paying the full price customs duty, the full VAT, and fined the whole cost of the lens.
Learnt my lesson and have never tried to con customs again!
Doh!Camera shop in New York gave me two receipts, one for actual price and one for UK customs showing a lower price.
Duly declared lens at customs (I was working as cabin crew in those days and customs were hot on us), and stupidly managed to pull out both receipts!
Ended up paying the full price customs duty, the full VAT, and fined the whole cost of the lens.
Learnt my lesson and have never tried to con customs again!
There was an article in the times the other day and it was a customs official saying your chances of being caught were very slim and in terms of priorities, they were a bit more worried about the people with 3kg of heroin shoved up their a***!
I think I'd prefer to plead ignorance than fraudulently and go green than present the wrong receipt. That would really annoy them if they catch you!
I go to South Africa every winter so have done quite a few safaris. Also, living at Le Mans and having press passes I know the other side of the coin. So here's what I carry and what I have learned from experience is useful and not useful:-
70/200 f2.8 plus TC14 and 17E. This lens is comparatively light and tack sharp. A brilliant combination, especially with the TC14E where you are now at 98/280 with a maximum aperture of f3.5. The TC17E is also great and loses only another half a stop. Don't on any account go for the TC20E because it can, if cloudy, cause the autofocus to hunt and is about as useful as a chocolate saucepan.
However, even with press passes, this lens isn't sometimes enough. I therefore carry (read lug) the 200/400 f4 which is a stellar motor racing lens. I also use it with the TC14E reducing the aperture to a maximum f5.6 which is on the limit for autofocus and should only be considered in good light. However, I see you have the new D300 which I believe to have much better high ISO performance than my D2X and should prove suitable. I am awaiting my new D3 at the moment.
For pit lane work I carry the 17/55 f2.8 plus a second body, the old D70, with the new 18/200 which, given that it is a consumer lens, is absolutely brilliant and gets shot that otherwise I'd miss due to changing lenses.
The 80/400 I tried before buying the 200/400 and a worse lens for sport I couldn't imagine. It is just so slow to focus you couldn't imagine and you'll get just so frustrated and find your money wasted. The 70/300 is a consumer lens and can't accept the teleconverters, so isn't much good either especially when you consider the aperture range.
I see so many people try and get away with cheaper lenses but if the 200/400 is out of your reach then I suggest you have a damned good look at the Sigma 100/300 f2.8. This is a great lens and will accept teleconverters.
On the subject of customs, I bought three lenses in the USA and went there with only the D2X body. I bought a new Lowepro bag, rolled it in the mud, stamped on it, and made it look old. I posted the boxes and guarantees back to myself and came back with the bag looking suitably used and never had a problem. I cleaned up the bag and a friend bought it for £50 which is about 20% of the usual price but then the overall saving was over £2,000 and if you look at the price of the D3 it is £750 less than in Europe. My Nikon dealer from whom I bought all my lenses is posting it with a lower valuation for customs purposes. Even memory cards are half price there; try getting a Sandisk Extreme 3 8GB card for £30 over here. Add it all up and it makes the flight and a weekend worth while!
So, if motor sport is your thing you have to decide on a budget. Go for the 200/400 and break the bank (but £1,300 cheaper in the USA), or IMHO go for the Sigma 100/300. It is a very good lens for the purpose and cheaper than the Nikkor 70/200. Best of luck.
Edit. I forgot to mention safaris. I took the 70/200 and for big game like hippos and giraffes it is fine because you can get reasonably close. However, the shots I missed (dots in the distance) were the eagle and the leopard. You need at least 500mm for this purpose, and don't forget a bean bag to rest the lens on in the truck. You are on rough roads and the truck bucks all over the place.
70/200 f2.8 plus TC14 and 17E. This lens is comparatively light and tack sharp. A brilliant combination, especially with the TC14E where you are now at 98/280 with a maximum aperture of f3.5. The TC17E is also great and loses only another half a stop. Don't on any account go for the TC20E because it can, if cloudy, cause the autofocus to hunt and is about as useful as a chocolate saucepan.
However, even with press passes, this lens isn't sometimes enough. I therefore carry (read lug) the 200/400 f4 which is a stellar motor racing lens. I also use it with the TC14E reducing the aperture to a maximum f5.6 which is on the limit for autofocus and should only be considered in good light. However, I see you have the new D300 which I believe to have much better high ISO performance than my D2X and should prove suitable. I am awaiting my new D3 at the moment.
For pit lane work I carry the 17/55 f2.8 plus a second body, the old D70, with the new 18/200 which, given that it is a consumer lens, is absolutely brilliant and gets shot that otherwise I'd miss due to changing lenses.
The 80/400 I tried before buying the 200/400 and a worse lens for sport I couldn't imagine. It is just so slow to focus you couldn't imagine and you'll get just so frustrated and find your money wasted. The 70/300 is a consumer lens and can't accept the teleconverters, so isn't much good either especially when you consider the aperture range.
I see so many people try and get away with cheaper lenses but if the 200/400 is out of your reach then I suggest you have a damned good look at the Sigma 100/300 f2.8. This is a great lens and will accept teleconverters.
On the subject of customs, I bought three lenses in the USA and went there with only the D2X body. I bought a new Lowepro bag, rolled it in the mud, stamped on it, and made it look old. I posted the boxes and guarantees back to myself and came back with the bag looking suitably used and never had a problem. I cleaned up the bag and a friend bought it for £50 which is about 20% of the usual price but then the overall saving was over £2,000 and if you look at the price of the D3 it is £750 less than in Europe. My Nikon dealer from whom I bought all my lenses is posting it with a lower valuation for customs purposes. Even memory cards are half price there; try getting a Sandisk Extreme 3 8GB card for £30 over here. Add it all up and it makes the flight and a weekend worth while!
So, if motor sport is your thing you have to decide on a budget. Go for the 200/400 and break the bank (but £1,300 cheaper in the USA), or IMHO go for the Sigma 100/300. It is a very good lens for the purpose and cheaper than the Nikkor 70/200. Best of luck.
Edit. I forgot to mention safaris. I took the 70/200 and for big game like hippos and giraffes it is fine because you can get reasonably close. However, the shots I missed (dots in the distance) were the eagle and the leopard. You need at least 500mm for this purpose, and don't forget a bean bag to rest the lens on in the truck. You are on rough roads and the truck bucks all over the place.
Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 9th December 20:33
Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 9th December 20:35
lowdrag, thanks for all that. I've got the 70-200 now so will see how it goes. Also got the 2x tele so will see how it works out but I take your point about the autofocus perhaps being marginal. Seemed ok when I tested it though, so maybe the D300s 52 point focus system helps a bit? Worst case I buy another teleconv. It seemed to focus better than the 80-400, and was even ok when playing around in my lounge in bad artificial light.
The 200-400 is clearly a thing of wonder, but well out of my reach. Not to mention the bag is already way too heavy and I'm not that committed nor professional!
The 200-400 is clearly a thing of wonder, but well out of my reach. Not to mention the bag is already way too heavy and I'm not that committed nor professional!
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