Petrol Problem
Discussion
Hi, Just posting this on behalf of a mate.
He turned up at a Shell Garage on Sunday and filled up with what he thought would be "Petrol." Went in, paid by Credit Card left and got into his car. Turned the ignition on and the Petrol Light was still on with the tank showing empty. He thought he'd leave it a few seconds to register but nothing. Still empty.
He went back to the cashier who said that there was nothing he could do so my mate'd have to phone the manager the day after. (At this point it might of been a wise move to get the cashier out to show him the fuel gauge as a garage witness but hindsight etc.).
He returned on Monday and recieved stock answers off the manager who basically said that no one else had complained (It was shell optimax that may not of been used that sunday by anyone else) and that they'd get Customs & Excise (or whoever) in to measure and get back to him.
He's not heard anything yet so he's phoning up today about it but wants to know what's likely to happen. He's contemplating phoning his credit card company to cancel the transaction as even though he's used chip & pin, he's in non-reciept of the goods.
Can anyone shed any light on any likely outcomes?
B2
He turned up at a Shell Garage on Sunday and filled up with what he thought would be "Petrol." Went in, paid by Credit Card left and got into his car. Turned the ignition on and the Petrol Light was still on with the tank showing empty. He thought he'd leave it a few seconds to register but nothing. Still empty.
He went back to the cashier who said that there was nothing he could do so my mate'd have to phone the manager the day after. (At this point it might of been a wise move to get the cashier out to show him the fuel gauge as a garage witness but hindsight etc.).
He returned on Monday and recieved stock answers off the manager who basically said that no one else had complained (It was shell optimax that may not of been used that sunday by anyone else) and that they'd get Customs & Excise (or whoever) in to measure and get back to him.
He's not heard anything yet so he's phoning up today about it but wants to know what's likely to happen. He's contemplating phoning his credit card company to cancel the transaction as even though he's used chip & pin, he's in non-reciept of the goods.
Can anyone shed any light on any likely outcomes?
B2
I don't quite understand this post - was he implying that nothing came out of the pump, or that what came out wasn't petrol?
If the former then couldn't he feel/hear/smell the petrol being dispensed? How did he know when to stop pumping?
If the latter then he's got a knackered fuel gauge as any fluid would register in the tank - the needle can't tell the difference.
If the former then couldn't he feel/hear/smell the petrol being dispensed? How did he know when to stop pumping?
If the latter then he's got a knackered fuel gauge as any fluid would register in the tank - the needle can't tell the difference.
So did he leave the car at the petrol station over the weekend, or did he have enough petrol in the tank to get home and then back again, or did he end up filling at a different pump (and if so, was he able to get as much into the tank as he'd expect if it were empty)?
Seems a bit iffy to me, the one time I've ended up at a pump attached to a dry storage tank, it was obvious that nothing was coming out - no feeling of fluid flow through the pipe or nozzle, no smell, and no movement on the pump display. And surely if this particular pump was sufficiently borked so that it *was* giving every impression of delivering fuel when it wasn't, it should be pretty easy to confirm the fault. OTOH, if the pump was dishing out something other than petrol, then you'd not only expect the car gauge to register something, you'd also expect the engine to complain about trying to run on something it wasn't designed for (if the tank was as empty as the gauge suggested, adding any amount of foreign material would dilute the remaining petrol enough for it to be obvious).
I think I'm going to have to go with the suggestion above that the car has a knackered gauge and that, assuming the car didn't run dry or require a top-up from somewhere else that weekend, the pump probably did deliver the fuel it claimed to have delivered.
Seems a bit iffy to me, the one time I've ended up at a pump attached to a dry storage tank, it was obvious that nothing was coming out - no feeling of fluid flow through the pipe or nozzle, no smell, and no movement on the pump display. And surely if this particular pump was sufficiently borked so that it *was* giving every impression of delivering fuel when it wasn't, it should be pretty easy to confirm the fault. OTOH, if the pump was dishing out something other than petrol, then you'd not only expect the car gauge to register something, you'd also expect the engine to complain about trying to run on something it wasn't designed for (if the tank was as empty as the gauge suggested, adding any amount of foreign material would dilute the remaining petrol enough for it to be obvious).
I think I'm going to have to go with the suggestion above that the car has a knackered gauge and that, assuming the car didn't run dry or require a top-up from somewhere else that weekend, the pump probably did deliver the fuel it claimed to have delivered.
This happened to me many moons ago at a Texaco garage, told the pump attendant and they said they would report it and he gave me a number to call. I proved there was a problem by putting 60 odd litres into my tank at another pump, it was resolved the very next day with a refund and apology.
Dave!
Dave!
b2dan said:
The pump pumped out Fresh air. Its a new car so shouldn't think it was a gauge fault (he says it moved down on the way to the station, these big gas guzzling cars!). He phoned his credit card and cancelled the transaction as the garage basically told him to get stuffed!
Didn't he notice/feel/smell there was nothing coming out of the nozzle? Its a 997 GT3 and he's experienced the same problem as many other owners with the fact that if you don't hold the nozzle at the correct angle then the darned thing keeps cutting out. It didn't this time so he just assumed that he'd got it right for once and didnt notice anything petrol fumes etc!
He also took it to another garage and filled up. Needle moved upwards on the gauge so obviously not a faulty gauge!
He also took it to another garage and filled up. Needle moved upwards on the gauge so obviously not a faulty gauge!
I had a similar problem when a pump I used kept clicking off every couple of seconds.
I kept trying and eventually gave up.
The gauge registered I have input £15 of petrol.
I went into the kiosk and refused to pay.
I left my name and address instead claiming the reading couldn't have been accurate with the pump clicking on and off so many times.
The attendant told me the tank was empty and that there should have been a sign on the nozzle but he couldn't put one on as he was working alone and couldn't leave the kiosk.
I heard nothing more
I kept trying and eventually gave up.
The gauge registered I have input £15 of petrol.
I went into the kiosk and refused to pay.
I left my name and address instead claiming the reading couldn't have been accurate with the pump clicking on and off so many times.
The attendant told me the tank was empty and that there should have been a sign on the nozzle but he couldn't put one on as he was working alone and couldn't leave the kiosk.
I heard nothing more
I had this at a texaco station. In daydream mode stuck in hose and waited for it to stop. Thought it was taking a while so checked the display which showed that so far I had pumped 110 litres. Into a car with a 60 litre tank. Checked fuel guage still showed 1/4 tank which is what I had started with. Had a big argument with the manager who insisted I had to pay for the fuel I had pumped despite me pointing out that my car was reading only 1/4 tank and the guage was rather handily designed to show litres. He finally caved when I asked him to show me how to get 110 litres into a 60 litre tank. Took 10 minutes of solid arguing with them telling me it wasnt possible for this to happen with electroinc flow control on the pumps etc. Funnily enough as we were arguing little man came out and put out of order signs on 3/4 of the pumps and told his boss the tanks were empty.....
bigdods said:
Took 10 minutes of solid arguing with them telling me it wasnt possible for this to happen with electroinc flow control on the pumps etc.
This is what puzzles me, because the two fundamental tasks of a fuel pump are to safely move fuel from one storage tank to another, and to accurately measure how much of that fuel was actually moved. The design of the pump then ought to be such that, barring deliberate tampering with the pump (which in itself should be made as difficult as possible) or a one in a quadzillion freak disturbance in the pump electronics that managed to override all of the safeties and cross-checking functions, it really shouldn't be possible for anything other than fuel flow (or another fluid of comparable physical properties) to register.Yet here we have a growing number of people all saying it's happened to them... I'd like to think (being a design engineer myself ;-) the designers of these pumps aren't all a complete bunch of idiots, so is it the manufacturers forcing the designers to produce substandard equipment as a way of keeping costs down, or could it be dodgy garages figuring out how to fool the pumps?
what i was told by the pump engineer when it happened in the garage i worked at was - if its pumping a bit if fuel with the air there can be enough pressure to turn the counter bit. its hardly an exact answer but it sort of makes sense to me.
having said that i filled the workvan today & must have had the pump on for about 2mins before anything came out BUT it didnt register anything til fuel came out.
i think older style pumps with mechanical counters are probably worse for it. i assume newer pumps have electronics to count the fuel flow.
having said that i filled the workvan today & must have had the pump on for about 2mins before anything came out BUT it didnt register anything til fuel came out.
i think older style pumps with mechanical counters are probably worse for it. i assume newer pumps have electronics to count the fuel flow.
Cheers B2dan for posting this. It was my car. The facts: My tank holds 67L. I've worked out by looking at the needle position on the gauge and calculating how much fuel per increment on the gauge that I had 12L of fuel in the tank on first purchase. I put £16 worth (14.97L) of fuel in. Therefore you'd expect the needle to move to 27L, ie short of half way. The needle did not move AT ALL so my fuel light was still on.
I then returned to the garage and complained. They could/would do nothing till the day after, so still needing fuel I used a different pump and put another £16 in. Before I paid (again) I switched my ignition on and the fuel gauge moved up towards half way.
If I had put 2x 14.97L in my tank then the needle would have been over half way and it was still abit short of half way.
I was actually quite amazed that this has happened - you dont expect to pay for fresh air when you go for fuel. The difficulty is proving this.
Anyway a few days after speaking with the manager they have apparently had checks done on the pump and there is no problem (surprise surprise). They suggested ringing Shell Customer Services. Fat lot of good that would do!
Not having alot of time to waste on this i've simply contacted my credit card people and informed them that i'd paid £16 for fuel that i never received. My card has now been refunded but i'm now expecting the Shell garage to kick off when they get a card chargeback.
I then returned to the garage and complained. They could/would do nothing till the day after, so still needing fuel I used a different pump and put another £16 in. Before I paid (again) I switched my ignition on and the fuel gauge moved up towards half way.
If I had put 2x 14.97L in my tank then the needle would have been over half way and it was still abit short of half way.
I was actually quite amazed that this has happened - you dont expect to pay for fresh air when you go for fuel. The difficulty is proving this.
Anyway a few days after speaking with the manager they have apparently had checks done on the pump and there is no problem (surprise surprise). They suggested ringing Shell Customer Services. Fat lot of good that would do!
Not having alot of time to waste on this i've simply contacted my credit card people and informed them that i'd paid £16 for fuel that i never received. My card has now been refunded but i'm now expecting the Shell garage to kick off when they get a card chargeback.
I had something similar happen to at the petrol station between Thorpe Park and Staines Town center, can't remember what it is, I think it's Total or one of the other smaller ones.
I only put in around £10 as it was quite pricey but when I got back into the car the fuel guage hadn't moved. I went back in and was given a load of guff about electric measures etc and how it was my car. Having only had the car for about 2 weeks at this point I wasn't too sure about reliability and as I'd been at work for 10 hours I let it go. Went to Sainbury's down the road and put in £20, the car subsequently did about £20 worth of mileage before needing fuel again so the first pump was wrong.
A week or so later I was let of work a couple of hours early so I stopped outside their garage and let people know what had happened for 20mins or so. They made a bit of fuss but I told them to get stuffed, the locals just seemed to ignore me but a couple of the tourists from Thorpe Park listened and drove on. Figured I'd lost them more then £10 worth of business so went on my way a bit happier knowing I'd pissed them right off.
I only put in around £10 as it was quite pricey but when I got back into the car the fuel guage hadn't moved. I went back in and was given a load of guff about electric measures etc and how it was my car. Having only had the car for about 2 weeks at this point I wasn't too sure about reliability and as I'd been at work for 10 hours I let it go. Went to Sainbury's down the road and put in £20, the car subsequently did about £20 worth of mileage before needing fuel again so the first pump was wrong.
A week or so later I was let of work a couple of hours early so I stopped outside their garage and let people know what had happened for 20mins or so. They made a bit of fuss but I told them to get stuffed, the locals just seemed to ignore me but a couple of the tourists from Thorpe Park listened and drove on. Figured I'd lost them more then £10 worth of business so went on my way a bit happier knowing I'd pissed them right off.
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