(miss)use of car lights and court?
Discussion
Quick question, guy on a forum I post on has just got a £30 fine for having his fog lights on when it was clear (he was stopped on a motorway, serves him right since I find it really annoying when people do that, ignorance is no excuse etc..) He was told if he wanted to dispute it they would take him to court.
Now misuse of lights are as far as I am aware a Non-endorseable offence? Could it even be possible to be sent to court such a thing? Even if you wanted to dispute it, how do you do so against such fixed penalty notices?
Just Curious what the process is in such cases.
Thanks.
Now misuse of lights are as far as I am aware a Non-endorseable offence? Could it even be possible to be sent to court such a thing? Even if you wanted to dispute it, how do you do so against such fixed penalty notices?
Just Curious what the process is in such cases.
Thanks.
When you get a ticket there is always an option to go to court to dispute it, as you would with a parking ticket.
Fog lights is no exception. The problem is with fog lights what can your mate say? If it is his word against a copper or two then he is fighting a losing battle.
The only defence is that the copper is lying, either about the lights being on or about visibility not being reduced sufficiently to warrant using the lights.
Fog lights is no exception. The problem is with fog lights what can your mate say? If it is his word against a copper or two then he is fighting a losing battle.
The only defence is that the copper is lying, either about the lights being on or about visibility not being reduced sufficiently to warrant using the lights.
Actually this whole thing about fog lights has got me really cheesed off.
Everyone loves to jump on anyone who has their fog lights on as if they are the worst driver ever imaginable and the scum of the earth.
It is actually total nonsense.
When I was younger there was an accepted practice.
people would if they wished drive at the speed limit.
Other drivers could if they so wished drive above the speed limit. That was their choice and noone would be bothered about it.
The slower drivers let the speeders get on with it knowing that they were the ones risking their licence.
and the speeding drivers drove around knowing they were risking their licence but could drive without anyone else hampering them in their progress.
The use of foglights became an unwritten code of conduct.
If you were driving along and saw someone behind you coming along with foglights on you thought..this guys in a hurry and if you didn't want to hurry too you just pulled over and let them past.
The same applied when you were in a hurry.
You would put on your foglights and then as you came up behind slower traffic they would pull over and let you past. You gave a wave of thanks and went on your way unimpeded.
This was a great system that allowed slow and fast road users equal safety on the roads and it generated an awareness and respect of each other.
Now of course if you put on your foglights you are public enemy number one vilified by both police and public.
There was a new method a couple of years back where traffic on the outside lane would apply its right indicator to signal to the car in front it wanted to get past.
The police clamped down on this practice issuing penalty notices and points.
Why?
Now we are in a ludicrous situation where everyone is frightened to put on their foglights even when they are required.
I drove to Manchester the other week and the FOG warning lights were on the overhead gantries and there was fog and spray everywhere and yet I saw only 30% or less of vehicles with their fog lights on.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Incorrect use of foglights should never have become a points offence. The fear this has created actually stops people using them when needed.
People who drive with their fog lights on when not needed should simply be told to turn them off.
We are in a position now where someone can drive through fog with their fog lights on for safety. Then forget to turn them off when it clears and get 3 points on his licence when he drives past the next police car.
I don't expect a sensible reply to this post such is the hysterical view people seem to reserve for cars with fog lamps on
Everyone loves to jump on anyone who has their fog lights on as if they are the worst driver ever imaginable and the scum of the earth.
It is actually total nonsense.
When I was younger there was an accepted practice.
people would if they wished drive at the speed limit.
Other drivers could if they so wished drive above the speed limit. That was their choice and noone would be bothered about it.
The slower drivers let the speeders get on with it knowing that they were the ones risking their licence.
and the speeding drivers drove around knowing they were risking their licence but could drive without anyone else hampering them in their progress.
The use of foglights became an unwritten code of conduct.
If you were driving along and saw someone behind you coming along with foglights on you thought..this guys in a hurry and if you didn't want to hurry too you just pulled over and let them past.
The same applied when you were in a hurry.
You would put on your foglights and then as you came up behind slower traffic they would pull over and let you past. You gave a wave of thanks and went on your way unimpeded.
This was a great system that allowed slow and fast road users equal safety on the roads and it generated an awareness and respect of each other.
Now of course if you put on your foglights you are public enemy number one vilified by both police and public.
There was a new method a couple of years back where traffic on the outside lane would apply its right indicator to signal to the car in front it wanted to get past.
The police clamped down on this practice issuing penalty notices and points.
Why?
Now we are in a ludicrous situation where everyone is frightened to put on their foglights even when they are required.
I drove to Manchester the other week and the FOG warning lights were on the overhead gantries and there was fog and spray everywhere and yet I saw only 30% or less of vehicles with their fog lights on.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Incorrect use of foglights should never have become a points offence. The fear this has created actually stops people using them when needed.
People who drive with their fog lights on when not needed should simply be told to turn them off.
We are in a position now where someone can drive through fog with their fog lights on for safety. Then forget to turn them off when it clears and get 3 points on his licence when he drives past the next police car.
I don't expect a sensible reply to this post such is the hysterical view people seem to reserve for cars with fog lamps on
"People who drive with their fog lights on when not needed should simply be told to turn them off".
Totally agree - there must be more important thingds for the Police to worry about. If other drivers are distracted by the odd fog light left on then I wonder on their capacity to cope with Police vehicles, road maintainance vehicles, recovery vehicles, cranes etc. which have a variety of lights that are really distracting at night. Prosecuting a drver smacks of persecution to me and I suspect helps the Police obtain their targets.
In France the speed limit on the auto routes is reduced in rain. Could you imagine what would happen in Britain with that rule? Common sense would be out of the window and there would be endless arguements over what "raining" actually means.
Totally agree - there must be more important thingds for the Police to worry about. If other drivers are distracted by the odd fog light left on then I wonder on their capacity to cope with Police vehicles, road maintainance vehicles, recovery vehicles, cranes etc. which have a variety of lights that are really distracting at night. Prosecuting a drver smacks of persecution to me and I suspect helps the Police obtain their targets.
In France the speed limit on the auto routes is reduced in rain. Could you imagine what would happen in Britain with that rule? Common sense would be out of the window and there would be endless arguements over what "raining" actually means.
mark69sheer said:
A huge amount of cobblers, particularly about freemasons and secret signs re making progress.
You dont get points for inadvertantly leaving your rear fog lights on, nor do you get points for deliberately being a front fog lamp w
r either, unfortunately. I've been driving for 25+ years, and have never known about this 'Move over, i've got my front fogs on' rule.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 2nd December 10:35
Balmoral Green said:
mark69sheer said:
A huge amount of cobblers, particularly about freemasons and secret signs re making progress.
You dont get points for inadvertantly leaving your rear fog lights on, nor do you get points for deliberately being a front fog lamp wr either, unfortunately. I've been driving for 25+ years, and have never known about this 'Move over, i've got my front fogs on' rule.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 2nd December 10:35
I have however noticed the "I've got my front fog lights on unnecessarily so treat me as a w
r" method - that's pretty reliable.I haven't seen visibility bad enough yet this year to warrant fog lights. Using them at night is unnecessary, unless you're the only vehicle on the road, and you wish to make the rear of your car more visibile for traffic approaching from behind. When they catch up, it's courteous to switch them off and not blind the guy behind.
My view is, you only need (rear) fog lights if you can't see the car behind or in front (therefore they can't see you, and the high intensity lamp is to help improve visibility of your vehicle). If you can see several vehicles in a row in front, you don't need fog lamps. Period.
I see many people using them on the motorways, even when visibility is only slightly reduced, all it does is generates lots of red glare reducing visibility for following road users even more as it makes it much more difficult to see past the car with fog lamps on.
The highway code sets it out nicely, read it and stick to it.
My view is, you only need (rear) fog lights if you can't see the car behind or in front (therefore they can't see you, and the high intensity lamp is to help improve visibility of your vehicle). If you can see several vehicles in a row in front, you don't need fog lamps. Period.
I see many people using them on the motorways, even when visibility is only slightly reduced, all it does is generates lots of red glare reducing visibility for following road users even more as it makes it much more difficult to see past the car with fog lamps on.
The highway code sets it out nicely, read it and stick to it.
Raer fogs are even worse than front ones - I'm convinced that the people who drive around with their rears on in good weather think that they have front fogs and are trying to look cool, when in fact they didn't tick the £200 option when they bought their car, and have no idea which symbol menas front and which means rear...
Mark - inappropriate fog light use is handy - it shows that the user:
1. Thinks that they look "cool" - it's a diesel 406, you don't look cool, you look like a cock.
2. Has no idea of how to use their car's features.
3. Is a selfish.
4. Based on 1-3 should be given a wide berth...
Mark - inappropriate fog light use is handy - it shows that the user:
1. Thinks that they look "cool" - it's a diesel 406, you don't look cool, you look like a cock.
2. Has no idea of how to use their car's features.
3. Is a selfish
.4. Based on 1-3 should be given a wide berth...
mark69sheer said:
Actually this whole thing about fog lights has got me really cheesed off.
It cheeses me off no end too, I just can't abide front fog light wrs.mark69sheer said:
Everyone loves to jump on anyone who has their fog lights on as if they are the worst driver ever imaginable and the scum of the earth.
Not at all, they are just a mild irritant at the bottom end of the scale, to being hugely annoying and a definate hazard at the other end. Especially if they are behind in a 4x4 and you are in a low sports car. I have seen folks get out of their cars in this scenario and request the following selfish & inconsiderate style muppet to turn their wr lights off. Even in regular cars, sometimes they are so bright you have to flip the flipper on your rear view mirror. Do folks change the bulbs or something? not all of them are so dazzling, just the ones in certain cars being driven by the usual suspects. 
mark69sheer said:
It is actually total nonsense.
Agreed, you shouldn't have them on, so don't. Problem solved. It's not foggy!mark69sheer said:
When I was younger there was an accepted practice.
people would if they wished drive at the speed limit.
Other drivers could if they so wished drive above the speed limit. That was their choice and noone would be bothered about it.
The slower drivers let the speeders get on with it knowing that they were the ones risking their licence.
and the speeding drivers drove around knowing they were risking their licence but could drive without anyone else hampering them in their progress.
Eeee, by gum, I remember the Hovis advert too people would if they wished drive at the speed limit.
Other drivers could if they so wished drive above the speed limit. That was their choice and noone would be bothered about it.
The slower drivers let the speeders get on with it knowing that they were the ones risking their licence.
and the speeding drivers drove around knowing they were risking their licence but could drive without anyone else hampering them in their progress.
mark69sheer said:
The use of foglights became an unwritten code of conduct.
That's news to me.mark69sheer said:
If you were driving along and saw someone behind you coming along with foglights on you thought..this guys in a hurry and if you didn't want to hurry too you just pulled over and let them past.
Why would you be in the way at all anyway? I don't see what a particular combination of illumination has got to do with it? I'm never in anyones way anyway, and if someone wants to come past, they can. Aren't I good? . mark69sheer said:
The same applied when you were in a hurry.
You would put on your foglights and then as you came up behind slower traffic they would pull over and let you past. You gave a wave of thanks and went on your way unimpeded.
Do you live in a parrallel universe?You would put on your foglights and then as you came up behind slower traffic they would pull over and let you past. You gave a wave of thanks and went on your way unimpeded.
mark69sheer said:
This was a great system that allowed slow and fast road users equal safety on the roads and it generated an awareness and respect of each other.
Surely this is a windup, inviting just the sort of response i'm typing, reel me in, hook, line & sinker.mark69sheer said:
Now of course if you put on your foglights you are public enemy number one vilified by both police and public.
Quite right too. What part of "It irritates the out of people" don't you understand?mark69sheer said:
There was a new method a couple of years back where traffic on the outside lane would apply its right indicator to signal to the car in front it wanted to get past.
Yes, it used to work, but not anymore.mark69sheer said:
The police clamped down on this practice issuing penalty notices and points.
Thats' news to me.mark69sheer said:
Now we are in a ludicrous situation where everyone is frightened to put on their foglights even when they are required.
That is rubbish, every appears that every tt has his front fog lights on, all the time.mark69sheer said:
I drove to Manchester the other week and the FOG warning lights were on the overhead gantries and there was fog and spray everywhere and yet I saw only 30% or less of vehicles with their fog lights on.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Yes, for some reason, all the foglight wAbsolutely ridiculous.
rs turn them off when visibility is reduced. After all, how can they look cool when everyone else has them on because it is actually foggy.mark69sheer said:
Incorrect use of foglights should never have become a points offence.
It bloody well should be, at least when it is deliberate, in the case of fronts, rather than a genuine oversight, in the case of rears. mark69sheer said:
The fear this has created actually stops people using them when needed.
I disagree, there is nothing stopping folks from using fogs, either legitimately or otherwise, and that is the problem.mark69sheer said:
People who drive with their fog lights on when not needed should simply be told to turn them off.
I agree.mark69sheer said:
We are in a position now where someone can drive through fog with their fog lights on for safety. Then forget to turn them off when it clears and get 3 points on his licence when he drives past the next police car.
Nope. you don't get points for it.mark69sheer said:
I don't expect a sensible reply to this post such is the hysterical view people seem to reserve for cars with fog lamps on.
Damn right. If ing hate front fog lamp wrs with all my soul, nearly as much as I loath and despise MLM's and outside lane hogs.Sorry Mark, nothing personal. Just a quiet Sunday morning
Anybody out there know the genuine difference between foglights ( front ) and driving lights. I keep reading that it is to do with the height at which these lights are set......However, anybody remember the mk3 XR2i....that had 2 sets of lights into bumper, so which ones were fogs, and which ones were driving lights, and how would Plod know if he drove towards you which ones you actually had on?
I got stopped once for driving with fogs on,Officer simply asked me to turn them off.Explained hadn't realised they were on, he checked dash, and said fair enough, maybe you would like to have dash lighbulbs swapped for future use. No problem there for me.Got bulbs changed.
I got stopped once for driving with fogs on,Officer simply asked me to turn them off.Explained hadn't realised they were on, he checked dash, and said fair enough, maybe you would like to have dash lighbulbs swapped for future use. No problem there for me.Got bulbs changed.
delboy735 said:
Anybody out there know the genuine difference between foglights ( front ) and driving lights. I keep reading that it is to do with the height at which these lights are set......However, anybody remember the mk3 XR2i....that had 2 sets of lights into bumper, so which ones were fogs, and which ones were driving lights, and how would Plod know if he drove towards you which ones you actually had on?
Does it matter? As far as I remember, if a light is below something like 24" then it shouldn't be on in clear weather. I can't see that it matters whether it's a fog light or not.Driving lights are wired to come on when you use your main beam, and they go off again when you return to dipped beam.
Front fog lights are a bit of a mis-nomer, as they have nothing to do with fog or reduced visibility whatsoever nowadays, their sole purpose is to indicate that the driver is a tt. This is widely recognised by about 90% of road users, the other 10% are the front fog light users themselves, who don't realise that everyone else thinks they are a tt. Which is ironic really, as they are convinced everyone else is saying "Hey! Wow! Cool! Look at him, with his front fogs on, wikkid, innit?", when actually we're all thinking coffee grinds if they are just irritating, or screaming blue murder at them if they are like main beam, but x10.
I need a bigger soap box.
HTH
BTW. Why is it that the numpties who have the front fogs on by accident or through ignorance, don't dazzle. But anyone who has them on, on purpose, appears to have a gazillion watts of lumination and is oblivious to the oncoming traffic flashing them, or the car in front repeatedly flashing their hazards and rear fogs at them?
Front fog lights are a bit of a mis-nomer, as they have nothing to do with fog or reduced visibility whatsoever nowadays, their sole purpose is to indicate that the driver is a t
t. This is widely recognised by about 90% of road users, the other 10% are the front fog light users themselves, who don't realise that everyone else thinks they are a tt. Which is ironic really, as they are convinced everyone else is saying "Hey! Wow! Cool! Look at him, with his front fogs on, wikkid, innit?", when actually we're all thinking coffee grinds if they are just irritating, or screaming blue murder at them if they are like main beam, but x10. I need a bigger soap box.
HTH
BTW. Why is it that the numpties who have the front fogs on by accident or through ignorance, don't dazzle. But anyone who has them on, on purpose, appears to have a gazillion watts of lumination and is oblivious to the oncoming traffic flashing them, or the car in front repeatedly flashing their hazards and rear fogs at them?
All you people who complain about fog lights are just a bunch of time waster with nothing else to do with your sad pathetic lives. I drive with my foggies and headlamps on when it turns dark. The headlights illuminate whats far infront of you and the foggies light up the road surface closer to you. This allows me to see potholes, dead anmials, car debris in the middle of the road. I dont know about you dimmwitted tts but if i have the choice between damaging my car/crashing to my death or using my foggies i doubt im going to be concerned what you lot have to say or the BiB.
How does me drvivng with fig lights on affect you at all?????????????????????????????????
Theyre no brighter than headlamps. If set up at the correct level they do not glare in other drivers eyes. WTF is theing problem??????? Grow up.
ts but if i have the choice between damaging my car/crashing to my death or using my foggies i doubt im going to be concerned what you lot have to say or the BiB.How does me drvivng with fig lights on affect you at all?????????????????????????????????
Theyre no brighter than headlamps. If set up at the correct level they do not glare in other drivers eyes. WTF is the
ing problem??????? Grow up.Do0Bs said:
All you people who complain about fog lights are just a bunch of time waster with nothing else to do with your sad pathetic lives. I drive with my foggies and headlamps on when it turns dark. The headlights illuminate whats far infront of you and the foggies light up the road surface closer to you. This allows me to see potholes, dead anmials, car debris in the middle of the road. I dont know about you dimmwitted tts but if i have the choice between damaging my car/crashing to my death or using my foggies i doubt im going to be concerned what you lot have to say or the BiB.
How does me drvivng with fig lights on affect you at all?????????????????????????????????
Theyre no brighter than headlamps. If set up at the correct level they do not glare in other drivers eyes. WTF is theing problem??????? Grow up.
Do you sit in the middle lane of the motorway because it makes you feel safe?ts but if i have the choice between damaging my car/crashing to my death or using my foggies i doubt im going to be concerned what you lot have to say or the BiB.How does me drvivng with fig lights on affect you at all?????????????????????????????????
Theyre no brighter than headlamps. If set up at the correct level they do not glare in other drivers eyes. WTF is the
ing problem??????? Grow up.so you spot stuff in this 'blind spot' that is what, 2 feet in front of your car? stuff you haven't seen in the full glare of your headlights, big bits of car exhaust, dead cows etc
and then you swerve to avoid it?
righto, that sounds perfectly plausible, i'm sure
99.9% of the time, you never need foglights, if you can see the 'normal' lights of the car in front, and there's a car behind, you don't need them on, and they then actually reduce visibility for everyone else
and then you swerve to avoid it?
righto, that sounds perfectly plausible, i'm sure
99.9% of the time, you never need foglights, if you can see the 'normal' lights of the car in front, and there's a car behind, you don't need them on, and they then actually reduce visibility for everyone else
Do0Bs said:
All you people who complain about fog lights are just a bunch of time waster with nothing else to do with your sad pathetic lives. I drive with my foggies and headlamps on when it turns dark. The headlights illuminate whats far infront of you and the foggies light up the road surface closer to you. This allows me to see potholes, dead anmials, car debris in the middle of the road. I dont know about you dimmwitted tts but if i have the choice between damaging my car/crashing to my death or using my foggies i doubt im going to be concerned what you lot have to say or the BiB.
How does me drvivng with fig lights on affect you at all?????????????????????????????????
Theyre no brighter than headlamps. If set up at the correct level they do not glare in other drivers eyes. WTF is theing problem??????? Grow up.
Did you take lessons or does it come naturally?ts but if i have the choice between damaging my car/crashing to my death or using my foggies i doubt im going to be concerned what you lot have to say or the BiB.How does me drvivng with fig lights on affect you at all?????????????????????????????????
Theyre no brighter than headlamps. If set up at the correct level they do not glare in other drivers eyes. WTF is the
ing problem??????? Grow up.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff