Real-world performance figures
Discussion
jayzee said:
Ok, I've checked the search facility, and cannot find the estimated performance figures for a typical unmapped 4.5 Cerbera - factory standard.
I know the BHP range, which varies considerably, but what would the estimated 0-60 time and top speed be?
I've heard the Cerb does 0-60 in 3.9 and 180 +. Just how much + I don't know.I know the BHP range, which varies considerably, but what would the estimated 0-60 time and top speed be?
jayzee said:
So we are assuming that the 0-60 times are as published (circa 3.9s) from a car that produces anything from 330-360 BHP as standard?
I always thought that the figures were based on a car that produced 420BHP?
If this is the case, what on earth are the 400+ BHP cars stats?
IMHO not sure if more hp will get you to 60mph any faster - maybe the opposite even, as Cerbs do not put power down very well due to engine characteristics - look at what happened at fighting torque where Tuscans with less HP were quicker out the blocks + Cerbs caught them towards then end of the run.I always thought that the figures were based on a car that produced 420BHP?
If this is the case, what on earth are the 400+ BHP cars stats?
coetzeeh said:
jayzee said:
So we are assuming that the 0-60 times are as published (circa 3.9s) from a car that produces anything from 330-360 BHP as standard?
I always thought that the figures were based on a car that produced 420BHP?
If this is the case, what on earth are the 400+ BHP cars stats?
IMHO not sure if more hp will get you to 60mph any faster - maybe the opposite even, as Cerbs do not put power down very well due to engine characteristics - look at what happened at fighting torque where Tuscans with less HP were quicker out the blocks + Cerbs caught them towards then end of the run.I always thought that the figures were based on a car that produced 420BHP?
If this is the case, what on earth are the 400+ BHP cars stats?
What I meant was...
We all know that these cars are sometimes significantly down on power from the manufacturers quoted figures.
Cars tested by the press were possibly something special, hence the 0-60 time of 3.9s being quoted (nobody has actually maxed one out, so top speed cannot be verified)
Based on the above assumptions, surely we cannot say that the 0-60 of 3.9s is accurate for the majority of cars out there?
Let's say for arguments sake, a car typically pumping out 360 BHP wouldn't be able to achieve these figures?
I can appreciate torque and launch technique has a lot to do with things, but let us assume that this too is significantly down from the manufacturers quoted figures, so a 911 turbo with an identical 0-60 time would actually be quicker to 60 than a 4.5 Cerb simply because the quoted power figures from TVR were inaccurate.
OR are we saying that a 360BHP (ish) Cerb will be around the 4s mark, so in reality the same as the 911 Turbo?
Am I just confusing everyone, as I typically write as I would speak?
We all know that these cars are sometimes significantly down on power from the manufacturers quoted figures.
Cars tested by the press were possibly something special, hence the 0-60 time of 3.9s being quoted (nobody has actually maxed one out, so top speed cannot be verified)
Based on the above assumptions, surely we cannot say that the 0-60 of 3.9s is accurate for the majority of cars out there?
Let's say for arguments sake, a car typically pumping out 360 BHP wouldn't be able to achieve these figures?
I can appreciate torque and launch technique has a lot to do with things, but let us assume that this too is significantly down from the manufacturers quoted figures, so a 911 turbo with an identical 0-60 time would actually be quicker to 60 than a 4.5 Cerb simply because the quoted power figures from TVR were inaccurate.
OR are we saying that a 360BHP (ish) Cerb will be around the 4s mark, so in reality the same as the 911 Turbo?
Am I just confusing everyone, as I typically write as I would speak?
If you want REAL world figures I may be of some use...
Brighton Speed Trials are held on public roads (much slippier than SantaPod) and therefore simulate a more realistic traffic light GrandPrix
As standard with a very average power output at 50k miles old: 13.27 and 109mph
Trackcarsolutions remap and short induction at 70k miles old: 12.7 and 116mph
FWIW, the engines never been rebuilt, Dads quite good at launching it now and its still not even in the 400club thanks to the fact that we use a standard exhaust + still run CATs. The difference above is due to the increased power, throttle response, torque and most importantly the ability to rev more freely at higher RPMs. I think you'll agree its quite a large difference! In either case, the only cars that beat it on road tyres are supercars and in the last event - only the 599GTB and LP640 really would have left it behind, that said, the 599 still needed a good launch to achieve this, two out of three runs it was slower to the 1/4. Do not underestimate a Cerbera.
Brighton Speed Trials are held on public roads (much slippier than SantaPod) and therefore simulate a more realistic traffic light GrandPrix
As standard with a very average power output at 50k miles old: 13.27 and 109mph
Trackcarsolutions remap and short induction at 70k miles old: 12.7 and 116mph
FWIW, the engines never been rebuilt, Dads quite good at launching it now and its still not even in the 400club thanks to the fact that we use a standard exhaust + still run CATs. The difference above is due to the increased power, throttle response, torque and most importantly the ability to rev more freely at higher RPMs. I think you'll agree its quite a large difference! In either case, the only cars that beat it on road tyres are supercars and in the last event - only the 599GTB and LP640 really would have left it behind, that said, the 599 still needed a good launch to achieve this, two out of three runs it was slower to the 1/4. Do not underestimate a Cerbera.
Jay, the reality is niether car will do the press figures unless thier owners are gifted drivers whilst being mechanically unsympathetic/ loaded enough not to care.
A 996Turbo will be quicker off the mark due to its 4wd and it'll be quicker over 160 due to its superior aero, I doubt theres much in it up to that point though, these really are two very very fast cars, the 996 is alot easier to get the best out of though due to its 4wd system and weight over the rear wheels. But as I said, do not underestimate a Cerbera, up to the top of third gear theres very little that'll keep up and you will be able to give a standard 996turbo a scare if you use the revs correctly.
edit: If you want a benchmark for a real 359bhp Cerbs manufacturers figures, look at the ratings for autocar's Cerbera 4.2 - the same used in the vid where it destroys all... only mod it had was a decat - as confirmed by sources close to the factory. Autocar were very suspicious of how quick it was, so they dyno'd it and were amazed it had just 359bhp.
A 996Turbo will be quicker off the mark due to its 4wd and it'll be quicker over 160 due to its superior aero, I doubt theres much in it up to that point though, these really are two very very fast cars, the 996 is alot easier to get the best out of though due to its 4wd system and weight over the rear wheels. But as I said, do not underestimate a Cerbera, up to the top of third gear theres very little that'll keep up and you will be able to give a standard 996turbo a scare if you use the revs correctly.
edit: If you want a benchmark for a real 359bhp Cerbs manufacturers figures, look at the ratings for autocar's Cerbera 4.2 - the same used in the vid where it destroys all... only mod it had was a decat - as confirmed by sources close to the factory. Autocar were very suspicious of how quick it was, so they dyno'd it and were amazed it had just 359bhp.
Edited by BCA on Monday 3rd December 16:57
Lets not forget at Fighting Torque the two GT3s beat a 996 turbo, and all but one AJP Cerberas so they aren't to be sniffed at either.
I have run my car once at Santa Pod and it acheived 12.4 @ 115mph. Its a 4.2. And thats bang on what Autocar recorded the press 4.2 at back in 1996, with 0-60 in 4.0s and 0-100 in 9.1s. Sure, there are faster cars out there, but I don't feel the need to go any quicker - it still amazes me and thats after over 2 years of ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
I have run my car once at Santa Pod and it acheived 12.4 @ 115mph. Its a 4.2. And thats bang on what Autocar recorded the press 4.2 at back in 1996, with 0-60 in 4.0s and 0-100 in 9.1s. Sure, there are faster cars out there, but I don't feel the need to go any quicker - it still amazes me and thats after over 2 years of ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
In the real world, no car has passed my 4.5 when it was standard c.360bhp or tuned c.420bhp. On track only slicks'n'wings cars will get the better of it - and not all of them can either.
As Ben says: do not underestimate a Cerbera
One of the keys to the performance is the lack of inertia in the engine and that's why it boxes above its weight. Other - often bigger - high power engines (Lamborghini, Chevrolet amongst them) consume some of their own energy getting themselves moving i.e. power is used to accelerate the reciprocating parts. The AJP8 is remarkable in the way you can crack the throttles open and get an instant response.
As Ben says: do not underestimate a Cerbera
One of the keys to the performance is the lack of inertia in the engine and that's why it boxes above its weight. Other - often bigger - high power engines (Lamborghini, Chevrolet amongst them) consume some of their own energy getting themselves moving i.e. power is used to accelerate the reciprocating parts. The AJP8 is remarkable in the way you can crack the throttles open and get an instant response.
longbow said:
Lets not forget at Fighting Torque the two GT3s beat a 996 turbo, and all but one AJP Cerberas so they aren't to be sniffed at either.
I have run my car once at Santa Pod and it acheived 12.4 @ 115mph. Its a 4.2. And thats bang on what Autocar recorded the press 4.2 at back in 1996, with 0-60 in 4.0s and 0-100 in 9.1s. Sure, there are faster cars out there, but I don't feel the need to go any quicker - it still amazes me and thats after over 2 years of ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
I will put my name down now.....I have run my car once at Santa Pod and it acheived 12.4 @ 115mph. Its a 4.2. And thats bang on what Autocar recorded the press 4.2 at back in 1996, with 0-60 in 4.0s and 0-100 in 9.1s. Sure, there are faster cars out there, but I don't feel the need to go any quicker - it still amazes me and thats after over 2 years of ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
2.BLUETHUNDER Cerb/Vette C5longbow said:
ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
Excellant - that's no holiday booked around that time then so I don't have to come back early from France again... Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
Fighting torque 2007 I beat a supercharged monaro (550bhp) with launch control, traction control....
He'd spent almost as much on upgrades as I'd spent on my car
Cerberas were running 26-27 secs for the 3/4 mile - somewhere around 150mph+, which mostly seemed to depend on launch technique. Once the cars were moving there didn't seem to be much difference in the acceleration.
I held on for the mile (GPS recording/timing) and managed 31.6 secs, which is pretty close to the top gear run of just sub 31 secs
On my GTech I've recorded 0-60 in 4.3 secs several times
longbow said:
Lets not forget at Fighting Torque the two GT3s beat a 996 turbo, and all but one AJP Cerberas so they aren't to be sniffed at either.
I have run my car once at Santa Pod and it acheived 12.4 @ 115mph. Its a 4.2. And thats bang on what Autocar recorded the press 4.2 at back in 1996, with 0-60 in 4.0s and 0-100 in 9.1s. Sure, there are faster cars out there, but I don't feel the need to go any quicker - it still amazes me and thats after over 2 years of ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
Depends on what you mean beat, if you man quicker (time) than yes, if you mean faster (speed) then no I have run my car once at Santa Pod and it acheived 12.4 @ 115mph. Its a 4.2. And thats bang on what Autocar recorded the press 4.2 at back in 1996, with 0-60 in 4.0s and 0-100 in 9.1s. Sure, there are faster cars out there, but I don't feel the need to go any quicker - it still amazes me and thats after over 2 years of ownership................
Oh, and Fighting Torque 2008........... Sun 03 Aug 08. You heard it here first
. I had great struggle with a GT3 who took a length off me at the start (my crap start line technique) but it was even all the way to the end when I started to haul him in and drew level (nearly
) had it been a 1 mile then no contest. I think mine was the 'fastest' TVR there, hampered by the most inexperienced Cerb driver there .Must try to keep the diary free for the first week in August now, I will be a lot 'quicker' by then
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