Opinions on an accident please (blame wise)
Discussion
The other half has had a bump.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
He was coming from top left, to go right on the roundabout. As he got almost all the way around an MX5 driver pulled out from his left (top right on the satellite pic) and he drove into the side of her car - will need a door and side frame etc but i'm guessing its a total loss cos it got shoved into the kerb on the passenger side, the wheels were a lot wonky!
His car has "minor" damage to the passenger front corner.
Will there be any doubt it wasnt his fault?
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
He was coming from top left, to go right on the roundabout. As he got almost all the way around an MX5 driver pulled out from his left (top right on the satellite pic) and he drove into the side of her car - will need a door and side frame etc but i'm guessing its a total loss cos it got shoved into the kerb on the passenger side, the wheels were a lot wonky!
His car has "minor" damage to the passenger front corner.
Will there be any doubt it wasnt his fault?
J500ANT said:
The other half has had a bump.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
He was coming from top left, to go right on the roundabout. As he got almost all the way around an MX5 driver pulled out from his left (top right on the satellite pic) and he drove into the side of her car - will need a door and side frame etc but i'm guessing its a total loss cos it got shoved into the kerb on the passenger side, the wheels were a lot wonky!
His car has "minor" damage to the passenger front corner.
Will there be any doubt it wasnt his fault?
Yes, there will be doubt. Were there any witnesses who stopped? Why did the MX5 driver think it was ok to pull on to the mini roundabout? etc etc I think at leats 50/50, perhaps more in favour of your other half. Yes he drove into the side of the other car, but it appears at first glance that he had priority and they had no right to take that away. Without witnesses, this could get a bit messy...http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
He was coming from top left, to go right on the roundabout. As he got almost all the way around an MX5 driver pulled out from his left (top right on the satellite pic) and he drove into the side of her car - will need a door and side frame etc but i'm guessing its a total loss cos it got shoved into the kerb on the passenger side, the wheels were a lot wonky!
His car has "minor" damage to the passenger front corner.
Will there be any doubt it wasnt his fault?
There are three ways of looking at this:
Criminally: The offence would be driving without due car and attention
Rule 185 (not a law so failure to do so is not itself an offence) states that you should give priority to traffic from the right. I'm a bit confused by your description of the incident but most police would make the assumption that the vehicle already on the roundabout would have had right of way. If there were no other circumstances to consider then that would be it.
Legally: i.e. civil liability. In any civil case the court would consider the above but it would not be overriding. The questions they seem to ask is whether the driver was acting reasonably. But this varies. It's a minefield. Civil courts are best viewed as a source of income for lawyers and mercedes importers. They are not for the likes of us.
Insurance point of view: They tend to go knock for knock in these circumstances. Disputed blame is not for the likes of them.
Highway Code bits of roundabouts.
184
On approaching a roundabout take notice and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should
use Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre at all stages
decide as early as possible which exit you need to take
give an appropriate signal (see Rule 186). Time your signals so as not to confuse other road users
get into the correct lane
adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions
be aware of the speed and position of all the road users around you
185
When reaching the roundabout you should
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off
186
Signals and position.
When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.
187
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
motorcyclists
cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout. Allow them to do so
long vehicles (including those towing trailers). These might have to take a different course or straddle lanes either approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals
188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)]
189
At double mini-roundabouts treat each roundabout separately and give way to traffic from the right.
190
Multiple roundabouts. At some complex junctions, there may be a series of mini-roundabouts at each intersection. Treat each mini-roundabout separately and follow the normal rules.
Criminally: The offence would be driving without due car and attention
Rule 185 (not a law so failure to do so is not itself an offence) states that you should give priority to traffic from the right. I'm a bit confused by your description of the incident but most police would make the assumption that the vehicle already on the roundabout would have had right of way. If there were no other circumstances to consider then that would be it.
Legally: i.e. civil liability. In any civil case the court would consider the above but it would not be overriding. The questions they seem to ask is whether the driver was acting reasonably. But this varies. It's a minefield. Civil courts are best viewed as a source of income for lawyers and mercedes importers. They are not for the likes of us.
Insurance point of view: They tend to go knock for knock in these circumstances. Disputed blame is not for the likes of them.
Highway Code bits of roundabouts.
184
On approaching a roundabout take notice and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should
use Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre at all stages
decide as early as possible which exit you need to take
give an appropriate signal (see Rule 186). Time your signals so as not to confuse other road users
get into the correct lane
adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions
be aware of the speed and position of all the road users around you
185
When reaching the roundabout you should
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off
186
Signals and position.
When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.
187
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
motorcyclists
cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout. Allow them to do so
long vehicles (including those towing trailers). These might have to take a different course or straddle lanes either approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals
188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)]
189
At double mini-roundabouts treat each roundabout separately and give way to traffic from the right.
190
Multiple roundabouts. At some complex junctions, there may be a series of mini-roundabouts at each intersection. Treat each mini-roundabout separately and follow the normal rules.
Derek Smith said:
There are three ways of looking at this:
Criminally: The offence would be driving without due car and attention
Rule 185 (not a law so failure to do so is not itself an offence) states that you should give priority to traffic from the right. I'm a bit confused by your description of the incident but most police would make the assumption that the vehicle already on the roundabout would have had right of way. If there were no other circumstances to consider then that would be it.
Legally: i.e. civil liability. In any civil case the court would consider the above but it would not be overriding. The questions they seem to ask is whether the driver was acting reasonably. But this varies. It's a minefield. Civil courts are best viewed as a source of income for lawyers and mercedes importers. They are not for the likes of us.
Only a narrow minded officer could take this kind of view.Criminally: The offence would be driving without due car and attention
Rule 185 (not a law so failure to do so is not itself an offence) states that you should give priority to traffic from the right. I'm a bit confused by your description of the incident but most police would make the assumption that the vehicle already on the roundabout would have had right of way. If there were no other circumstances to consider then that would be it.
Legally: i.e. civil liability. In any civil case the court would consider the above but it would not be overriding. The questions they seem to ask is whether the driver was acting reasonably. But this varies. It's a minefield. Civil courts are best viewed as a source of income for lawyers and mercedes importers. They are not for the likes of us.
Firstly, I think the OP is more interested in the Civil ramifications of the matter, rather than Criminal, but thanks for your input :shakeshead:
Secondly, it sure takes someone who knows nothing about Civil law to suggest that it doesn't facilitate a suitable outcome for those in the right.
You've definitely got a level view on things; a big chip on each shoulder...
J500ANT said:
Yes he was signalling, the way she was coming from had 2 lanes - she was on the inside lane apparently the car in the "outside" lane stopped to give way to my other half and she didnt.
Bizarre. I've seen a lot of this just lately in Basingstoke. People just driving blithely onto roundabouts with utter disregard for anyone already on them.Followed one lady driver (in a Landie) who did it three times in the space of as many minutes
whilst I was driving behind her. In each case you could argue she had "just enough" room to drive on - but only because the drivers on the roundabout saw her in time and braked. 
RichBurley said:
Derek Smith said:
There are three ways of looking at this:
Criminally: The offence would be driving without due car and attention
Rule 185 (not a law so failure to do so is not itself an offence) states that you should give priority to traffic from the right. I'm a bit confused by your description of the incident but most police would make the assumption that the vehicle already on the roundabout would have had right of way. If there were no other circumstances to consider then that would be it.
Legally: i.e. civil liability. In any civil case the court would consider the above but it would not be overriding. The questions they seem to ask is whether the driver was acting reasonably. But this varies. It's a minefield. Civil courts are best viewed as a source of income for lawyers and mercedes importers. They are not for the likes of us.
Only a narrow minded officer could take this kind of view.Criminally: The offence would be driving without due car and attention
Rule 185 (not a law so failure to do so is not itself an offence) states that you should give priority to traffic from the right. I'm a bit confused by your description of the incident but most police would make the assumption that the vehicle already on the roundabout would have had right of way. If there were no other circumstances to consider then that would be it.
Legally: i.e. civil liability. In any civil case the court would consider the above but it would not be overriding. The questions they seem to ask is whether the driver was acting reasonably. But this varies. It's a minefield. Civil courts are best viewed as a source of income for lawyers and mercedes importers. They are not for the likes of us.
Firstly, I think the OP is more interested in the Civil ramifications of the matter, rather than Criminal, but thanks for your input :shakeshead:
Secondly, it sure takes someone who knows nothing about Civil law to suggest that it doesn't facilitate a suitable outcome for those in the right.
You've definitely got a level view on things; a big chip on each shoulder...
It is also a great leveller. I have no specific professional legal training apart from apart of my business degree law but I have taken out civil proceedings against 2 very big companies and they settled before court each time.
If after giving numerous warnings then this really is the only recourse - and to be frank in most situations one which is quick, simple and successful.
If we take this situation for example, I can't see any reason whatsoever that this will onto go 100% in the OP's favour. However, it may be the case that the other parties insurance company will try to invent any possible reason to attribute blame or just stall things. After all the bluff and bluster they will put up, they know in court they will lose and once the final warning is given 98% will give in and stop putting off the inevitable.
It looks as if a car joining the roundabout has collided with a car already on the roundabout. Unless the car already on the roundabout was doing something that made it difficult to for the other driver to see them or judge their position/speed/course, I would have thought the driver joining the roundabout would be held at fault.
GreenV8S said:
It looks as if a car joining the roundabout has collided with a car already on the roundabout. Unless the car already on the roundabout was doing something that made it difficult to for the other driver to see them or judge their position/speed/course, I would have thought the driver joining the roundabout would be held at fault.
Agreed.Failing obvious randomness like the car on the roundabout is driving at night with no headlights, in a nutshell the other car has crossed the give way line when it was not safe to do so and drove into the side of another car.
That said the insurance company may prolaim that 'All roundabout accidents are 50/50 sir/madam..." but that is not the case, they are looking for a quick, fast buck.
It would appear that the other party has accepted blame as Helphire have taken this case on and are actually arranging for the repair themselves (as opposed to my OH's insurers - as their approved repairer couldnt collect it til Wednesday cos they're too busy hmmm) and providing a replacement vehicle.
Well my previous assumption that her insurers had accepted blame appeared to be wide of the mark - we had a letter from DAS demanding to know details of insurers etc as they have been instructed to pursue a claim on the other drivers behalf. Ah well, exciting times ahead - we called Helphire who said to send the letter over and then not worry about it, they're dealing with it all. Will (slowly) keep you posted.
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