Clarity required
Discussion
I'm currently going through an ongoing legal issue at work and I'm not sure my solicetor is that offay with certain items. Could someone who knows chapter and verse please point out the relevant acts etc.
The point in question is whether a road is a "Public Highway" (note not public road).
The road is a road I constructed subject to a Section 38 agreement which at the date in question was on maintenance but not yet adopted and maintainable at public expense.
My take is that the road is a PUBLIC HIGHWAY as it is open to the public and is a highway. BUT is not a public road as it is not adopted....
I believe that no you don't have to pay VED as it is not adopted but it is a public highway and has all the benefits of RTA.
Could someone specifically point me to the legislation that confirms it is a public highway so I can use it, case law confirming it is would also be useful.
The need to know is with regard to a valuation of a piece of land accessed off it.
Cheers
James
The point in question is whether a road is a "Public Highway" (note not public road).
The road is a road I constructed subject to a Section 38 agreement which at the date in question was on maintenance but not yet adopted and maintainable at public expense.
My take is that the road is a PUBLIC HIGHWAY as it is open to the public and is a highway. BUT is not a public road as it is not adopted....
I believe that no you don't have to pay VED as it is not adopted but it is a public highway and has all the benefits of RTA.
Could someone specifically point me to the legislation that confirms it is a public highway so I can use it, case law confirming it is would also be useful.
The need to know is with regard to a valuation of a piece of land accessed off it.
Cheers
James
fish said:
Yep the road is always open and not ristricted which I understood means it is now a public highway even though it is not adopted.
A section 38 agreement is where we legaly agree to build a road and the council agree to adopt it at the end of construction.
Sounds like it will be part of the highway as it meets the points of being open to the public to which they can legally pass and re-pass. With adoption it just means who is responsible for the upkeep.A section 38 agreement is where we legaly agree to build a road and the council agree to adopt it at the end of construction.
Okay, can I add a question - if there is a strip of road that is classed as 'Unadopted public highway' - which is used by around 100 residents - is it okay for a couple of them to get together and put up wheel clamping signs on the bit outside their residence?
Just wondered what rights they have to do this, and what rights I'd have in removing a clamp if they targeted my car.
Just wondered what rights they have to do this, and what rights I'd have in removing a clamp if they targeted my car.
Look at PNLD for the definition of roads.
Basically
A road is defined as any road with public access from hedge to hedge and includes roads passing over bridges.
A road for vehicle excise purposes is one maintained at public expense.
Roads are public places unless they are private roads which have the facility to be closed by a physical barrier and have notices stating the road is private.
Private roads can be public places which much of the Road Traffic Act applies to. This includes the need for licence and insurance and also covers standards of driving including drink driving.
Unadopted roads are generally roads for the sake of the Road Traffic Act but debatable whether they cover the need to tax vehicles using them.
Basically
A road is defined as any road with public access from hedge to hedge and includes roads passing over bridges.
A road for vehicle excise purposes is one maintained at public expense.
Roads are public places unless they are private roads which have the facility to be closed by a physical barrier and have notices stating the road is private.
Private roads can be public places which much of the Road Traffic Act applies to. This includes the need for licence and insurance and also covers standards of driving including drink driving.
Unadopted roads are generally roads for the sake of the Road Traffic Act but debatable whether they cover the need to tax vehicles using them.
Cpn Jack Spanner said:
Okay, can I add a question - if there is a strip of road that is classed as 'Unadopted public highway' - which is used by around 100 residents - is it okay for a couple of them to get together and put up wheel clamping signs on the bit outside their residence?
Just wondered what rights they have to do this, and what rights I'd have in removing a clamp if they targeted my car.
I'm more familiar with the situation in Scotland - the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 defines a "road" as "any way over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means) - very similar to the definition set out earlier by others, and in the Highways Act 1980 for England and Wales. The Road Traffic Regulation Act (which applies in both Scotland and England) then states that anybody who puts up a sign... without the permission of the roads (or highway) authority... commits an offence.Just wondered what rights they have to do this, and what rights I'd have in removing a clamp if they targeted my car.
What that means is that if it's a public highway (adopted or not) then I think that you need a Traffic Regulation Order to impose any parking restrictions - which must be signed in accordance with Traffic Signs Regs and General Directions - ie yellow lines and plates, as for any other road.
I don't believe that groups of residents (even if they own that bit of road) have any rights to clamp or otherwise control parking - the "public highway" bit (adopted or not) supercedes any rights to "private land".
Edited by tvrgit on Monday 3rd December 23:28
fish said:
I'm currently going through an ongoing legal issue at work and I'm not sure my solicetor is that offay with certain items. Could someone who knows chapter and verse please point out the relevant acts etc.
The point in question is whether a road is a "Public Highway" (note not public road).
The road is a road I constructed subject to a Section 38 agreement which at the date in question was on maintenance but not yet adopted and maintainable at public expense.
My take is that the road is a PUBLIC HIGHWAY as it is open to the public and is a highway. BUT is not a public road as it is not adopted....
I believe that no you don't have to pay VED as it is not adopted but it is a public highway and has all the benefits of RTA.
Could someone specifically point me to the legislation that confirms it is a public highway so I can use it, case law confirming it is would also be useful.
The need to know is with regard to a valuation of a piece of land accessed off it.
Cheers
James
Law on VED changed. They can clamp on your own driveway these days - unless you SORN it.The point in question is whether a road is a "Public Highway" (note not public road).
The road is a road I constructed subject to a Section 38 agreement which at the date in question was on maintenance but not yet adopted and maintainable at public expense.
My take is that the road is a PUBLIC HIGHWAY as it is open to the public and is a highway. BUT is not a public road as it is not adopted....
I believe that no you don't have to pay VED as it is not adopted but it is a public highway and has all the benefits of RTA.
Could someone specifically point me to the legislation that confirms it is a public highway so I can use it, case law confirming it is would also be useful.
The need to know is with regard to a valuation of a piece of land accessed off it.
Cheers
James
My own driveway is maintained by me at my expense - but this driveway is almost two miles from the main road and our house (olde farm house which we bought at auction when we married and has cost us a fortune and some fun in the project of turning a disaster into a decent place to live over the years)
Road was a dirt track - we re-surfaced it as it was very unfriendly to our cars!
However, our cars are still clampable if not insured and displaying VED per a DSA book called "Owning A Motor Vehicle - Legal Requirements" (Me and Wildy do take our motoring seriously! The CAR matters
Our driveway is "public" in that it accesses some public footpaths leading into the countryside around here - but because it is part of our land and maintained by us - it is currently valued as part of our property/land.
I do not know if this answers your question as it's not case law as we've never had any dispute over this land of ours.
I find that hard to believe M.
The offence is using a vehicle on a road (repairable at public expense)without an Excise Licence. If none in force and SORNed vehicle on a road same offence is obviously committed. If untaxed and off the road in your own private drive offence of using without not committed. They can clamp on a road because of the offence but not on a private drive.
There is no specific offence of failing to declare SORN (AFAIA). What SORN does it help DVLA to keep a continous record on the current status of vehicle and if untaxed and unsorned when they do a computor cull (understand monthly) send out an £80 surcharge.
If your 2 mile drive into the wilderness is not gated, signed as private and open to one an all then it can be a road under RTA's for DL, C of I , DD, Due care.
If it is maintained , resurfaced etc at YOUR expense then Excise duty cannot be claimed and you can drive up and down it as many times as you like without Excise with impunity as far as Excise is concerned.
dvd
The offence is using a vehicle on a road (repairable at public expense)without an Excise Licence. If none in force and SORNed vehicle on a road same offence is obviously committed. If untaxed and off the road in your own private drive offence of using without not committed. They can clamp on a road because of the offence but not on a private drive.
There is no specific offence of failing to declare SORN (AFAIA). What SORN does it help DVLA to keep a continous record on the current status of vehicle and if untaxed and unsorned when they do a computor cull (understand monthly) send out an £80 surcharge.
If your 2 mile drive into the wilderness is not gated, signed as private and open to one an all then it can be a road under RTA's for DL, C of I , DD, Due care.
If it is maintained , resurfaced etc at YOUR expense then Excise duty cannot be claimed and you can drive up and down it as many times as you like without Excise with impunity as far as Excise is concerned.
dvd
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