Safety?

[Jim27]

Yes, I've used the search button and dug about for ages and can't find what I'm after.

Hands up - I don't know much about TVRs, hence I'm asking. I *DO* know that you don't buy a TVR because of it's safety credentials (you buy it because it gives you massive hairy goolies), but I have a serious question to ask...

I understand that unlike a more modern monocoque chassis the Cerbera, like pretty much all TVRs, is built with a composite body bolted onto a steel chassis. The chassis has a centre powertrain tunnel with 'outriggers' (?) attatched either side to support the cabin and for seatbelt mounting:



So fine - I get it, that the strength comes from the steel chassis.

What I wanted to ask was whether or not there's any other structural cabin protection. I've been reading on t'interweb and some chappie was waffling on about all TVRs having full rollcages built into the body. My BS-o-meter is ringing at that but I wanted to ask whether the picture you see above is the sum total of the car's strength and crash resistance?

Because, well (gay mode engaged), there doesn't really seem to be much at all to protect you when some half-blind, hook-handed immigrant taxi driver jumps the lights and stuffs into the side of your TVR at 40-50mph....? More importantly, what happens if the vehicle that hits you is one of those bl00dy Chelsea tractors - it's bulk, floorpan, etc. will be raised higher than the chassis so does that mean that all you've got to protect you is the plastic bodywork?

I'm not in the habit of having prangs (have only had 2 in 14 years of driving) but my first accident was me being T-boned by a speeding car doing 40+mph. I was in a Nissan Micra and got hit in the driver's door and the car literally folded in half and I suspect I was more than lucky to walk away with all my limbs and organs intact, hence my question about the Cerbera, or any TVR in general. Sorry it's a bit of a ghey question but I'm a little protective of Beloved and although I may be happy to jump into something less than NCAP 5 star, I don't know how I feel about putting her in it (at least if I get hurt it was my choice to make, yes?).

Any info much appreciated

Jim

Edited by Jim27 on Monday 3rd December 19:13

Edited by Jim27 on Monday 3rd December 19:16

[Jim27]

-sigh-

Typical.

I've been hunting around for info on this topic for over an hour now and found diddly squat.

I post my question, then go back to my hunting. 2 minutes later I find my answers.

Ar5e. Ah well - the answers are here - http://www.pistonheads.com/features/safety.htm

Might as well leave this here to a) shame myself, much to other PHers amusement, and b) give the pointer to the next numpty that comes along with the same question.

-sigh-

[mickk]

Jim27 said:

(gay mode engaged), there doesn't really seem to be much at all to protect you when some half-blind, hook-handed immigrant taxi driver

Very PC

[Erich Stahler]

The Cebera has an integral roll cage and side impact structure inside the door skins, if you ever see a picture of a fire damaged one you will see it does have quite extensive protection however the cage is probably not as sturdy as a full FIA spec one you would have in a track car.

[Byker28i]

Hum - you need to look at a couple of threads started after last years London Thunder. There were a couple of horrendous accidents on the way home, but the occupants all got out alive. Think it was DC53 but the pics have gone.

Same with this ne
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=331...

The roll cage is over the top in the roof. That's what you bang your head on with a crash helmet

The doors have bars in too.

[TT Tim]

The Cerb' is not for you if those are the questions you're asking.

They are a long way from meeting any Euro NCap spec' slightly safer than a Chimaera but probabally not a lot.

The rear of the integral roll cage is attached to the body and not the chassis, so I wouldn't rely on that. however the space frame chassis does have a lot of strength, but you're not sitting in the chassis, you're sitting next to it!

Tim

[brummiewedge]

The rear of the roll cage bolts just in front of the rear wheels to the outriggers, you can see the bolts if you stick your head underneath, at least when i took my body off they were! The rot in the chassis on some of these might be more of an issue though

[dc53]

Byker28i said:

Hum - you need to look at a couple of threads started after last years London Thunder. There were a couple of horrendous accidents on the way home, but the occupants all got out alive. Think it was DC53 but the pics have gone.

Same with this ne
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=331...

The roll cage is over the top in the roof. That's what you bang your head on with a crash helmet

The doors have bars in too.

If you want it to be safe buy a porsche

To be honest, they're very UN-safe, roll cage just seemed to bend and not hold up at all, just like a scrumple zone on the front of a car, when Dad hit sideways, the rollcage (the only strenghtening bit in the cockpit??) just screwed up like a can. The body isn't strong (obviously - Fibreglass) that just turns into an orange and peels off. I still have a peic of the car in the garage, and when we left 'the scene' their was little squigly bits of yellow everywhere.
If someone was in he back of the car when Dad crashed they'd be dead (i was supposed to be sitting behind )
Side impact bars were okish, still, if he was going any faster he would hae been fcuked!

Here's the pic's












Ah the Cerb' I LOVED IT! so did Dad! Now we want another

Pic's will be up in a sec

Edited by dc53 on Monday 3rd December 23:20

[Jim27]

I hear what you're saying, TT Tim. I currently drive a VX220 - how comparable would you say the Cerbera is in structural safety to this?

So long as I know that it isn't a deathtrap I think I'm going to be happy. The VX gives you a strong sense of protection by virtue of the crash boxes front and rear, and the big thick aluminium chassis rails that you actually sit INSIDE of.

[dc53]

Jim27 said:

So long as I know that it isn't a deathtrap I think I'm going to be happy.

LOOK UP^^

[Jim27]

Cheers DC - missed your post as was composing my reply when you posted

Pictures look horrendous, but smashed F/G always does I guess. I find it surprising that the rollcage seems to have just crumpled in the way you described! Bit unnerving but it looks like it was a BIG off and if the two of your walked away, I suppose it did it's job...

Have seen smashed VXs that look like they've been obliterated but the driver has come out in one piece so again, I guess the proof is in the pudding, eh?

[DonnyMac]

dc53 said:

LOOK UP^^

don't do it, nothing to see there.

No one ever sits in the back, it was designed as a crumple stone and they put some seats in that no one could ever sit in so we could tell the wife it's a family car - honest.

I stacked my first at 70mph with impact to front and rear whilst spinning, wasn't wearing a seat belt and got out of the car (after finding the emergency handle thingamies) without a scratch - car was seriously scr3wed, but they always look worse than a standard car because the bodywork disapears (expect in the pics above (don't look) where it does seem to look as bad as it was) - by the way, were you or your dad injured, or got out without a scratch like me?

[dc53]

DonnyMac said:

dc53 said:

LOOK UP^^

don't do it, nothing to see there.

No one ever sits in the back, it was designed as a crumple stone and they put some seats in that no one could ever sit in so we could tell the wife it's a family car - honest.

I stacked my first at 70mph with impact to front and rear whilst spinning, wasn't wearing a seat belt and got out of the car (after finding the emergency handle thingamies) without a scratch - car was seriously scr3wed, but they always look worse than a standard car because the bodywork disapears (expect in the pics above (don't look) where it does seem to look as bad as it was) - by the way, were you or your dad injured, or got out without a scratch like me?

I wasn't injured as i wasn't in it, my dad telld me the story all the time m dad broke all of his right rib's, one on the left, couldn't walk for around 2 weeks (even thogh the hospital was addiment he was able to walk, so didn't leave him in over night, just chucked him out, without a wheelchair i may add. Anothe bed needed for mr Immigrant maybe?) severe bruising to lower back, and ew bones out of plce here and their. he's here to tell the tail so i'm not really bothered! Dad's mate was just very VERY shook up, as he didn't take the impact, was sick a few times and had a limp for a month or so, but he's ok now.

As for the space in the back, it was useable, i went on ma a trip in the back, a little cramped yes, but i coul hear the noise more, so wasn't really too bothered!


Still remember him in the hospital bed moaning about the pain, and i said 'I think she's a right off' The off he went into his own world talking about the next TVR he was going t get, and low and behold he said in the bed 'i'm getting a Tuscan' we go one He's a weird one.

[QuiteQuietCerb]

have a look at those if you want, not a cerb but a friends chimaera. He stuffed it in the barriers at miles per hour, we both walked without a scratch, chassis coped great, didnt even buckle. Also due to the impact absorbing nature of the fibreglass, we didnt even suffer whiplash or anything. Im sure that if we were in a modern car we would be or

i think tvrs due to the way they are made can cope very well if you stuff them, but i dont want to think what would happen if a chelsea tractor hit you.

[Byker28i]

Cheers DC53. I bought yours up as it was the worse crash I could think of in a cerbera and the driver was relatively unscathed.

[JonnyW]

TT Tim and the following threads are right, there is little side and roll over protection.

My race car has a full FIA cage that has completely substituted everything above and below the main frame, the fact that it cost £3,500 by someone who had done one before is proof to how much work had to go in to the car.

For those of you who have taken the pi%% when I get in and out there isn't much room to have all the right side protection.

They are a great car but I have to say, it makes my spine chill when I think of the German trips that we did with the boys in the back a few years ago.

[Gazzab]

to be honests though they are no worse than say a new shape mini. Look how close people are to the rear of the car in the back seats of those.
I believe TVRs are very good at front impact accidents but rubbish at side swipers.

[BCA]

Seen a couple of Cerb smacks, and I agree - front/rear/roll the Cerb is great - side its not so good, but better than earlier TVRs atleast...

DC, I still reckon your dad was doing very big speed when that happened, I've seen the results of normal speed accidents (hell I've repaired ours after one) - that must have been a BIG shunt.

[dc53]

BCA said:

Seen a couple of Cerb smacks, and I agree - front/rear/roll the Cerb is great - side its not so good, but better than earlier TVRs atleast...

DC, I still reckon your dad was doing very big speed when that happened, I've seen the results of normal speed accidents (hell I've repaired ours after one) - that must have been a BIG shunt.

You more than likely seen him ragging the boocks off of it around cov, that's a indication of the speeds he does

I did state at the time he was only doing 60/70, but if you want to know, PM me, i'm not posting it on here!

[Byker28i]

Im alright with plastic cars though. We've only just sold our espace. Mind you we took it to France a week after getting it and the first thing we saw was an espace in the same state as DC53's Cerb on the back of a low loader...