335 LOW COST TUNING

[Lone Granger]

Having ready a fair bit about successful low cost engine performance upgrades in the US, I was wondering what we have here in UK or Germany.

An increase of over 100 lb ft and 100 bhp is available for well under £1k stateside utilsing a piggy back ECU that appears to address all necessary parameters

ECU + a custom stainless twin exhaust c £1700 fitted! - Company happy to visit UK too - are UK tuners still talking in the many thousand £ or have we now got some sensible 'lower end' tuners now?

400+ lb ft make an M3 look a little inadequate! - Std Qrt c 12 secs without LSD (avail for £1500 from another US tuner) 0-60 4.3 sec (without LSD) + more economical -- all we need now is for 2nd hand values to drop well below £10k and we have a real M3 alternative?

[phelix]

I'd like to see some objective evidence of a 100 bhp/100 ft lb gain with just a chip and exhaust! US tuners seem to make outrageous claims that rarely have hard evidence to back them up.

[edb49]

400bhp from a 335i is only 130bhp/litre, which is not a crazy figure for a turbo petrol engine. Would love to see it done (reliabily)

[Vixpy1]

I severly doubt the turbos on the 335 have enough headroom for a 100bhp increase

[phelix]

Vixpy1 said:

I severely doubt the turbos on the 335 have enough headroom for a 100bhp increase

And if they do it probably won't be for long as they'll be pumping a lot of heat back into the engine. 30% more power is 30% more heat that needs to be dissipated via the rad and oil cooler (does it have one as standard?) and the intercooler will probably need to be upgraded.

[Lone Granger]

edb49 said:

400bhp from a 335i is only 130bhp/litre, which is not a crazy figure for a turbo petrol engine. Would love to see it done (reliabily)

tis crazy -- crazily low! - 130 / litre isnt impossible without turbos - 200 / litre is more normal with a single turbo let alone a pair!

[phelix]

Lone Granger said:

tis crazy -- crazily low! - 130 / litre isnt impossible without turbos - 200 / litre is more normal with a single turbo let alone a pair!

200 bhp per litre?! So the 335i can make 600 bhp? The 911 turbo can make 720? Not as a bolt-on. But perhaps as part of a very thoroughly engineered (and expensive) upgrade.

[clonmult]

phelix said:

Vixpy1 said:

I severely doubt the turbos on the 335 have enough headroom for a 100bhp increase

And if they do it probably won't be for long as they'll be pumping a lot of heat back into the engine. 30% more power is 30% more heat that needs to be dissipated via the rad and oil cooler (does it have one as standard?) and the intercooler will probably need to be upgraded.

Does a 30% power hike scale linearly to a 30% rise in heat? I would think there is a correlation between the two, but wouldn't expect it to be linear. I would have though the biggest decider on the heat of the turbo was based around the speed at which it spins? (okay, I don't know that much about the mechanics of a turbo)

[Vixpy1]

clonmult said:

phelix said:

Vixpy1 said:

I severely doubt the turbos on the 335 have enough headroom for a 100bhp increase

And if they do it probably won't be for long as they'll be pumping a lot of heat back into the engine. 30% more power is 30% more heat that needs to be dissipated via the rad and oil cooler (does it have one as standard?) and the intercooler will probably need to be upgraded.

Does a 30% power hike scale linearly to a 30% rise in heat? I would think there is a correlation between the two, but wouldn't expect it to be linear. I would have though the biggest decider on the heat of the turbo was based around the speed at which it spins? (okay, I don't know that much about the mechanics of a turbo)

The harder you work the turbo, the more inefficent it becomes (past its peak efficiency) So the hotter the air expelled from it becomes.

[Lone Granger]

phelix said:

Lone Granger said:

tis crazy -- crazily low! - 130 / litre isnt impossible without turbos - 200 / litre is more normal with a single turbo let alone a pair!

200 bhp per litre?! So the 335i can make 600 bhp? The 911 turbo can make 720? Not as a bolt-on. But perhaps as part of a very thoroughly engineered (and expensive) upgrade.

Scooby can make 600 - streuth my 8 yr old Peugot made 105 / litre (GTi6, with ports smoothed and balanced - blue printed) - 10 yr old technology, non-turbo - also BMW themselves arent too bad I hear on non-turbo power / capacity.

Sure each engine has multiple limiting factors which need addressing, i am not saying you just put a free flow on and turn up the wick - tho' a reputable US company are getting 400/400+ doing just that on the 335 - Indeed a US magazine couldnt believe the performance of their demonstator (0-60 in the 4s)so checked the boost - it was running only 1lb over normal - running the turbos nearer their limit and optimising the breathing would surely release the 400/400 - What are Birds (expensive) figures?

[Lone Granger]

For your edification (an indi review of their achievement - which has more recently been improved on..):-

Adding a little more performance without compromising comfort or durability is what Pathak set out to do with the 335i.

It works. A 100 pound-feet increase in torque over a stock 335i from 2,000-4,000 rpm makes the Vishnu 335i not only quicker but also immensely more drivable. It never falls out of the power band. Roll into the throttle from 80 mph in top gear and the improvement in acceleration is, at first, only "meaningful." It quickly builds to "substantial," reaching its zenith at "Holy crap, this thing means business!"

Sixty mph arrives in 4.6 seconds and the quarter-mile flashes by in 13.0 seconds at 109 mph

And that's quicker than any stock Evo or Audi RS 4 we've ever tested.

Peak wheel (yep, you read correctly..) horsepower increased 75 hp from 265 hp to 340 hp over the privately owned BMW we tested in our first full test of the 335i coupe. But the real story here is the torque increase, which makes the 335i substantially more drivable than before. As we mentioned, the torque peaks at 390 lb-ft — 114 lb-ft more than stock. The margin decreases toward redline, although there's still a 50 lb-ft surplus.

It's hard to argue with almost 400 lb-ft of torque at the wheels (thats what they are saying)for less than the cost of a decent set of wheels.

Now perhaps you can see why I am in favour of no-nonsense non Euro tuning value for money - I dare say a £300 piggy-back chip would provide much of this performance reliably - a twin turbo 3 litre creating only 100 / litre out of Germany is likely to take a 30% power increase for sure provided the turbos can flow the extra air ok - seems that they can -- and then some!

[m12_nathan]

Scooby can make 600 with completely different internals, turbo, ecu, manifold, exhaust, air metering, fuel system and god knows what else. About as relevant as me saying an F1 car can rev to 19k rpm so I should be able to on my car

Xede goes to 380bhp+ and costs about a grand fitted in the uk:

http://www.ca-at.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0xOTM...

Not convinced of the 3.9 0-60 figure myself given the weight of the car and the engine layout.

http://www.letstorquebhp.com/calculator.asp

[Lone Granger]

m12_nathan said:

Scooby can make 600 with completely different internals, turbo, ecu, manifold, exhaust, air metering, fuel system and god knows what else. About as relevant as me saying an F1 car can rev to 19k rpm so I should be able to on my car

Xede goes to 380bhp+ and costs about a grand fitted in the uk:

http://www.ca-at.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0xOTM...

Not convinced of the 3.9 0-60 figure myself given the weight of the car and the engine layout.

http://www.letstorquebhp.com/calculator.asp

My STi was std - with only a re-map 360 / 360 from 1998 cc was an every day thrashable reality (over 180 / litre and with std internals 200 / litre no probs!)

Will re-look at Xede (USA tuner, second to Vishnu) and any other UK variants people come up with

Edited by Lone Granger on Wednesday 5th December 18:17

[Lone Granger]

sooo, no interest in tuning the 335???????????????????!!