Another trigger wheel question... (sorry!)
Discussion
I have the kit from trigger-wheels.co.uk as it came with the Emerald group buy. Slightly unnerving as someone on the other thread said that this sensor bracket didn't fit but I did specify that it was a serp unit and they sent me a bracket so it'd better fit! The problem i'm having is how to fit it... I really want to get the trig wheel and lambda mounted by mid next week because i'm going on holiday after that until xmas and my window to install the rest of the system is from then until the 6th Jan before i'm back to Brum and it once again becomes a daily driver. I was going to get Top Gear Automotive to install the bits for me since I don't have any welding gear for the lambda boss and was told I would need something fairly serious to get the front pulley off. Anyway after telling me to wait 2 weeks while one of their guys was away they then said it would cost me around £190 to install these two items which I really can't afford...!
So its looking like i'm going to have to do it myself either in the next week or over xmas although after just having a look at the engine, i'm not sure where to start: I have a serp 450 with P/S so the pulley looks pretty tricky to get to for a start, how do I get to it? Then is it really going to be that horrible to remove? I have the ACT exhaust and manifolds so it'll be easy to pull the down pipes and y-piece out but the swirl pot and chassis member i'm not sure of... Following that, where exactly is the sensor bracket meant to fix to? And does the trig wheel go directly behind the pulley?
I remember seening a photo guide somewhere on here but can't find it at all... does anyone have a link??
So its looking like i'm going to have to do it myself either in the next week or over xmas although after just having a look at the engine, i'm not sure where to start: I have a serp 450 with P/S so the pulley looks pretty tricky to get to for a start, how do I get to it? Then is it really going to be that horrible to remove? I have the ACT exhaust and manifolds so it'll be easy to pull the down pipes and y-piece out but the swirl pot and chassis member i'm not sure of... Following that, where exactly is the sensor bracket meant to fix to? And does the trig wheel go directly behind the pulley?
I remember seening a photo guide somewhere on here but can't find it at all... does anyone have a link??
Edited by thenick on Tuesday 4th December 15:47
I can help with the trigger wheel in relation to the sensor as I've just done mine!....the sensor should see the first tooth (after the gap) 90degrees before #1 TDC. It sounded simple enough 'till I got down to doing it then I could only see by doing some drawings and a little help. It doesn't matter where the sensor goes around the pulley wheel as long it sees that part of the trigger wheel at the right time. I located my sensor first then put #1 at TDC then positioned the missing tooth 9 teeth (each tooth on my 36-1 wheel being 10 degrees)ahead of the sensor going clockwise (viewing from the front)
I needed to make a special bracket for the sensor on my engine which is pre-serp which took ages...hopefully yours will be easier!
I've also mounted the twin coil packs (to left of the plenum) but again a special bracket was needed as I could'nt use the one that came in the kit...could use it as a fancy egg cup for 4 eggs!
John
I needed to make a special bracket for the sensor on my engine which is pre-serp which took ages...hopefully yours will be easier!
I've also mounted the twin coil packs (to left of the plenum) but again a special bracket was needed as I could'nt use the one that came in the kit...could use it as a fancy egg cup for 4 eggs!
John
Edited by Pagey430 on Tuesday 4th December 19:24
Edited by Pagey430 on Tuesday 4th December 19:27
Nice one, thanks John! How close does the sensor have to be to 'see' the wheel? Also how easy was it to get the pulley off? Will I need some sort of ridiculous sized breaker bar? And what did you make your sensor and coil pack bracket out of and how long did the whole job take roughly? Sorry for all the questions!
Edited by thenick on Tuesday 4th December 19:54
190 quid!!
first off what car is it?
You'll need a 15/16 socket to undo the pulley nut and this will be tight, try putting the car in gear and getting someone to hold the brake pedal down when you heave on the breaker bar. The torque setting is only 140ft/lb so it not ridiculous.
It shouldn't need any pullers but just slide out once the bolt is out, watch out for the big washer as you withdraw the pulley as it can fall out and diong off your bodywork ( guess what I did)
And the sensor needs to be within 0.5-1.5mm to get a good reading
Matt
first off what car is it?
You'll need a 15/16 socket to undo the pulley nut and this will be tight, try putting the car in gear and getting someone to hold the brake pedal down when you heave on the breaker bar. The torque setting is only 140ft/lb so it not ridiculous.
It shouldn't need any pullers but just slide out once the bolt is out, watch out for the big washer as you withdraw the pulley as it can fall out and diong off your bodywork ( guess what I did)
And the sensor needs to be within 0.5-1.5mm to get a good reading
Matt
I agree, mine came undone with car in 4th, handbrake firmly on and a 2.5' torque bar.
Brackets I made out of aluminium strip and profiles from B&Q, they've a good selection. I'll try and post some pictures up but I've not done it before so may take a day or two.
For the crank sensor bracket, at least, I established an idea on where to locate using (suitable) available bolt holes and then initially made up a template bracket out of the sheet metal from an old biscuit tin (well it was old by the time I had finished with it!...no telling the wife eh!) Then when I was happy I then started to cut and bend some Ali strip about 2.5-3cm wide by approx 2mm thick to the profile of the template. It took me a good day from start (staring at the timing cover!) to getting the materials, fabricating a template and finally making the bracket...so if you need to do it give yourself the time with out any pressure to do a good job. (I've rushed similar things in a previous life and it really does'nt pay to go at it half-heartedly.....may be you've been there before so I'm preeching to the converted!)
Right, I'm off to take some pics
All the best
John
Brackets I made out of aluminium strip and profiles from B&Q, they've a good selection. I'll try and post some pictures up but I've not done it before so may take a day or two.
For the crank sensor bracket, at least, I established an idea on where to locate using (suitable) available bolt holes and then initially made up a template bracket out of the sheet metal from an old biscuit tin (well it was old by the time I had finished with it!...no telling the wife eh!) Then when I was happy I then started to cut and bend some Ali strip about 2.5-3cm wide by approx 2mm thick to the profile of the template. It took me a good day from start (staring at the timing cover!) to getting the materials, fabricating a template and finally making the bracket...so if you need to do it give yourself the time with out any pressure to do a good job. (I've rushed similar things in a previous life and it really does'nt pay to go at it half-heartedly.....may be you've been there before so I'm preeching to the converted!)
Right, I'm off to take some pics
All the best
John
350Matt said:
190 quid!!
first off what car is it?
You'll need a 15/16 socket to undo the pulley nut and this will be tight, try putting the car in gear and getting someone to hold the brake pedal down when you heave on the breaker bar. The torque setting is only 140ft/lb so it not ridiculous.
It shouldn't need any pullers but just slide out once the bolt is out, watch out for the big washer as you withdraw the pulley as it can fall out and diong off your bodywork ( guess what I did)
And the sensor needs to be within 0.5-1.5mm to get a good reading
Matt
I know, I thought £190 was a tad pricy too! Its a 97 450 Chimaera so its a serp front end with power steering so the pulley looks a little more tricky to get to than pre-serps i've seen before. I think though if I just unbolt and move the swirl pot a bit, then remove the chassis cross member in front of the engine I should be able to get a long socket on the nut without too much trouble. If its not so tight as you've said then it shouldn't be as bad as I was expecting though i'll just have to be very careful doing the timing as i've not done it before. The sensor bracket I have looks pretty solid and is adjustable and looks like it will sit on the two holes to the near-side of the pulley so hopefully no fabrication will be needed but we'll see..! Now i'm just going to have to get myself a breaker bar/torque wrench! Will I need new bolts to attach the trig wheel to the pulley, if so do you know the size i'd need?first off what car is it?
You'll need a 15/16 socket to undo the pulley nut and this will be tight, try putting the car in gear and getting someone to hold the brake pedal down when you heave on the breaker bar. The torque setting is only 140ft/lb so it not ridiculous.
It shouldn't need any pullers but just slide out once the bolt is out, watch out for the big washer as you withdraw the pulley as it can fall out and diong off your bodywork ( guess what I did)
And the sensor needs to be within 0.5-1.5mm to get a good reading
Matt
thenick said:
350Matt said:
190 quid!!
first off what car is it?
You'll need a 15/16 socket to undo the pulley nut and this will be tight, try putting the car in gear and getting someone to hold the brake pedal down when you heave on the breaker bar. The torque setting is only 140ft/lb so it not ridiculous.
It shouldn't need any pullers but just slide out once the bolt is out, watch out for the big washer as you withdraw the pulley as it can fall out and diong off your bodywork ( guess what I did)
And the sensor needs to be within 0.5-1.5mm to get a good reading
Matt
I know, I thought £190 was a tad pricy too! Its a 97 450 Chimaera so its a serp front end with power steering so the pulley looks a little more tricky to get to than pre-serps i've seen before. I think though if I just unbolt and move the swirl pot a bit, then remove the chassis cross member in front of the engine I should be able to get a long socket on the nut without too much trouble. If its not so tight as you've said then it shouldn't be as bad as I was expecting though i'll just have to be very careful doing the timing as i've not done it before. The sensor bracket I have looks pretty solid and is adjustable and looks like it will sit on the two holes to the near-side of the pulley so hopefully no fabrication will be needed but we'll see..! Now i'm just going to have to get myself a breaker bar/torque wrench! Will I need new bolts to attach the trig wheel to the pulley, if so do you know the size i'd need?first off what car is it?
You'll need a 15/16 socket to undo the pulley nut and this will be tight, try putting the car in gear and getting someone to hold the brake pedal down when you heave on the breaker bar. The torque setting is only 140ft/lb so it not ridiculous.
It shouldn't need any pullers but just slide out once the bolt is out, watch out for the big washer as you withdraw the pulley as it can fall out and diong off your bodywork ( guess what I did)
And the sensor needs to be within 0.5-1.5mm to get a good reading
Matt
'We don't currently do a bracket for the later timing cover, we're
investigating producing one but it is very easy to make up a bracket
yourself.'
Edited by Pupp on Wednesday 5th December 07:29
removing the crank pulley is easily done, first remove the belt, remove your y piece or downpipes on the exhaust, slacken off the 6 bolts on the pulley, then remove the centre bolt that holds it all onto the shaft, either by having it in gear and someone apply the brakes, or, if its seriously tight, you can get underneath and remove the starter motor, then have a large flat bladed screwdriver and hold this firmly in place against a tooth on the flywheel whilst another can undo the pulley bolt.
going against the flywheel tooth is quite safe if you are careful, as the leverage at the flywheel end is much greater than the leverage required to undo the bolt.
going against the flywheel tooth is quite safe if you are careful, as the leverage at the flywheel end is much greater than the leverage required to undo the bolt.
One tip when you're making the sensor bracket - make sure the sensor itself is fully supported. Mine wasn't; the bracket itself was fine, and the engine ran OK for hours and hours, but one day after running with a misfire for a couple of minutes the mounting boss broke off the sensor. I assume the sensor had a small amount of flex and happened to hit resonance. (Home made bracket, pre-serp RV8, JE trigger wheel.)
Pupp said:
eliot said:
I trust you guys are verifying TDC and not relying on the markings on your damper.
That's a good point Eliot... apart from a dial gauge down the relevant plug hole, got any good how to suggestions?Best way is to get a old spark plug take the core out and tap in capped bolt.
put this plug in #1.
turn the crank over by hand clockwise, untill the piston hits the plug stop. mark this position.
turn the crank over by hand anti-clockwise, untill the piston hits the plug stop. mark this position.
And TDC with be in the middle of these two marks.
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