Govt's transport advisor -congestion plans doomed!

[whoozit]

Blimey.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3050082.stm

He goes on to say that we need much more investment in roads as well as public transport. Unfortunately he also concludes that road pricing is necessary - but is there any realistic alternative?

[zumbruk]

Indeed there is an alternative; The Government should spend some/most/all of the £30 billion a year they extort from motorists on transport, instead of invading Middle Eastern countries.

[swilly]

This growing focus on road building does suggest the government have made a descision to go the pay-as-you-drive route.

[Alan420]

Yep, and make it easier, faster and cheaper to move house, so we don't have to make so many journeys.

Steps to move big business away from already-overcrowded areas and to encourage home-working would also be welcome.

[Don]

swilly said:

This growing focus on road building does suggest the government have made a descision to go the pay-as-you-drive route.

Well its a double whammy isn't it? You get an increase in the tax take - which business simply has to pay - whilst simultaeneously creating an economic pressure to reduce the number of journies made.

It will, however, be stunningly unpopular as it is not an income based tax. This means the less well off majority will have to pay just as much as the "toffs" in their sports cars and gas guzzlers. And they won't like it one bit.

Bit of a vote loser I'd have said. It affects too many of us in a negative way. People are NOT altruistic about these things...and if they don't see a HUGE reduction in congestion won't think its worth it.

You also know that any road charging algorithm will be bollocks as well - and going for a drive out on the B roads on a Sunday will cost as much as the M4 going into London on a Monday morning...

The technology seems too easily circumvented to me as well..GPS = doesn't work, bit of tinfoil sort it out...cameras..well you'd need a LOT of them and they'd be subject to vandalism, abuse and hooky number plates...

Nope. Its not going to work...except in limited areas like Central London...and on the motorway. Even though these aren't congested half the time I think we can expect to be paying per mile on the M4 before long...

[Don]

Alan420 said:

Yep, and make it easier, faster and cheaper to move house, so we don't have to make so many journeys.

Couldn't agree more. Reducing the *need* to make journeys is certainly a prime way of reducing congestion of all kinds.

It takes serious, integrated planning to do it though. For example: getting a cycle paths, footpaths etc from the local estate to the local school..and on to the bus station and rail links seems utterly impossible. Why? Because different departments deal with Housing, Schools, Cycle Paths, and road and rail Transport so they'll NEVER agree about anything.

Now if the Government could make headway by banging that lot's heads together to the point where you don't have to drive five miles to go to the Doctor and six miles to drop the kids at the bus stop perhaps things would start to get better.

Of course:- that only works on new developments and mods to older ones. Stuff that's already the way it is is just going to stay awful...no help for that it seems.

[CarZee]

Don said:

Alan420 said: Yep, and make it easier, faster and cheaper to move house, so we don't have to make so many journeys. Couldn't agree more. Reducing the *need* to make journeys is certainly a prime way of reducing congestion of all kinds.

Is there a need to make any journey though?

I mean, I drive a 76 mile round trip to/from work every day. If the truth be told, I could work in Basingstoke, but I earn more working where I do and doing a 76 mile commute which takes 1hr20mins a day is an extremely tax efficient way for me to get at my earnings - a need driven chiefly by IR35.

It's a matter of the market economy. People will do what they can to do to make the most money - that doesn't mean this is a necessary end, it is merely what market forces dictate.

The answer is obviously not going to be a simple one, and will involve intervention in the labour market, probably by further penalising the commuting individual. This is not a solution in isolation though, because no longer term solution will evolve unless companies are compelled (by tax incentives) to move out of London & spread themselves out a bit more, oh and encourage teleworking. I think there's something in the british management culture which is suspicious of teleworking and implicitly brands employees as untrustworthy.

It comes back to the idea that peoples' productivity is frequently measured (empirically) by the number of hours they put in, not whether their targets & objectives are met, be that in 20 or 80 hours of work a week.

>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Monday 7th July 15:58

[Alan420]

All too true Carzee.

I think a reduction in the accessibility of London (even worse public transport) would go a long way to fixing this as well.

Dry up the labour market a bit, that plus taxation could force companies out a bit, so people can access them more easily, or simply work from home.

[Don]

Alan420 said:

All too true Carzee. I think a reduction in the accessibility of London (even worse public transport) would go a long way to fixing this as well. Dry up the labour market a bit, that plus taxation could force companies out a bit, so people can access them more easily, or simply work from home.

See my arguments re: simply allowing the current rail network to stagnate...."Doing Nothing Could Have Beneficial Economic Effect" etc etc

[voyds9]

Alan420 said:

Yep, and make it easier, faster and cheaper to move house, so we don't have to make so many journeys. Steps to move big business away from already-overcrowded areas and to encourage home-working would also be welcome.

Where should I live as I have two businesses 45 miles apart.
Also I don't want to live with the people whom I treat, I just wouldn't be able to have a quiet night in the pub.

[Toffer]

The regional development agencies were established to try an provide incentive sfor business to either move to or establish facilies in development regions. Sometimes it is just difficult to attract us soft Southerners to attractive development zones like Gateshead...for a start it is too far to visit the family!

Also, when the development agency winds down and teh incentives are withdrawn teh companies often also leave to find the next development zone with new grants...never mind the workforce

Example: Company X moves to Milton Keynes to enjoy development incentives, MK development agency closes, company moves to Telford, Telford development agency closes, company moves to Waterloo (near Brussels) to benefit from European development grants! True story!

Sharp companies always find a way to beat the numpty politicians