Evolution of the S
Discussion
Can someone give me a rough idea of the evolution of the S-Series? From what I can gather the S1-3 V6s are fairly similar and then some major revisions for the S3C and of course the S V8? Are any of them particular suitable as an everyday car (over the others I mean!) - ie improvments in weather gear or increased service intervals/parts availability?
Plenty of info here.
http://www.tvrsseries.com/
Loot at history at the top.
I'd say with cars of this age the 3 important factors are condition, condition and condition!
Buy the best you can - and don't be guided by a low price - its easy to spend a couple of grand if you get a dud.
The chassis is very prone on the S - make sure you inspect it carefully - again look at the buyers guide on the website.
Chris
http://www.tvrsseries.com/
Loot at history at the top.
I'd say with cars of this age the 3 important factors are condition, condition and condition!
Buy the best you can - and don't be guided by a low price - its easy to spend a couple of grand if you get a dud.
The chassis is very prone on the S - make sure you inspect it carefully - again look at the buyers guide on the website.
Chris
Chris71 said:
Can someone give me a rough idea of the evolution of the S-Series? From what I can gather the S1-3 V6s are fairly similar and then some major revisions for the S3C and of course the S V8?
I agree with everything Chris said! 
From what I can tell, these cars really did 'evolve' and were constantly developed during their history. Interestingly, some enthusiasts describe their cars as S1.5, although I've never really grasped precisely what defines such an example, or whether TVR ever labelled them as such.
Gentleman Geoff said:
Interestingly, some enthusiasts describe their cars as "S1.5", although I've never really grasped precisely what defines such an example, or whether TVR ever labelled them as such.
S1.5 is an S1 with a 2.9 engine. Unlike the S2 it doesn't have the chrome bumper strips or electric windows. There are other minor differences and I'm not sure if they have the S2 trailing arms or the original. To TVR they were 2.9 S's (or S290, or more perversely S280 2.9 
). "S1.5" is just shorthand to describe this interim model, but it's really just an early S2.Ok, I think this is a correct summary of Ted's archives and the site Chris linked to:
S1 - 160hp 2.8 V6
S1.5/2 - 168hp 2.9 V6, anti-squat geometry introduced on the rear, internal wheel arches to prevent chassis corrosion. Marginal increase in performance.
S3 - Longer doors to improve access, restyled dashboard, introduction of air dam and driving lights. Significantly improved ride due to suspension changes.
S3C - Introduction of a catalyst to meet emissions requirments and consequently a remapped ECU resulting in an extra 19 lb/ft of torque and improved throttle response. An LSD becomes available as standard(?) on the S3C.
V8S - Rover V8 with a claimed 240hp, stiffened chassis, rear discs introduced and an LSD as standard. Substantially quicker than the V6.
V8SC - Very rare. As above, but with a Chimera spec, cat equipped V8.
S4C - Even rarer still! Essentially a V8S rolling chassis with the S3C spec V6 slotted in.
How did I do?
It's worth pointing out that if I do get one I plan to use it pretty much all year round and there looks to be a very good guide to 'winter-proofing' them on that website.
Thinking about the various S's - although I have driven quicker cars - I've never lived day to day with anything like the performance of the V8S. It might be a bit of a jump from the sort of thing I'm used to, so I suspect the V6 would be addequate! I would always buy on condition, but it seems that when presented with two pristine examples you'd be better off going for the later model due to the continual process of evolution.
Possibly a slightly strange question - but were there any changes to the weather gear and/or sealing at any point?
In contrast, the basic 350i sits almost exactly between the V6 and V8 S in terms of performance.
S1 - 160hp 2.8 V6
S1.5/2 - 168hp 2.9 V6, anti-squat geometry introduced on the rear, internal wheel arches to prevent chassis corrosion. Marginal increase in performance.
S3 - Longer doors to improve access, restyled dashboard, introduction of air dam and driving lights. Significantly improved ride due to suspension changes.
S3C - Introduction of a catalyst to meet emissions requirments and consequently a remapped ECU resulting in an extra 19 lb/ft of torque and improved throttle response. An LSD becomes available as standard(?) on the S3C.
V8S - Rover V8 with a claimed 240hp, stiffened chassis, rear discs introduced and an LSD as standard. Substantially quicker than the V6.
V8SC - Very rare. As above, but with a Chimera spec, cat equipped V8.
S4C - Even rarer still! Essentially a V8S rolling chassis with the S3C spec V6 slotted in.
How did I do?
It's worth pointing out that if I do get one I plan to use it pretty much all year round and there looks to be a very good guide to 'winter-proofing' them on that website.
Thinking about the various S's - although I have driven quicker cars - I've never lived day to day with anything like the performance of the V8S. It might be a bit of a jump from the sort of thing I'm used to, so I suspect the V6 would be addequate! I would always buy on condition, but it seems that when presented with two pristine examples you'd be better off going for the later model due to the continual process of evolution.
Possibly a slightly strange question - but were there any changes to the weather gear and/or sealing at any point?
In contrast, the basic 350i sits almost exactly between the V6 and V8 S in terms of performance.
Chris71 said:
Possibly a slightly strange question - but were there any changes to the weather gear and/or sealing at any point?
No. The two-panel roof arrangement was the same for all S-series. I believe that some early S1's didn't have latches to lock the panels down (although these are easy to retro-fit).Chris,
My first S (V6 S2) was my everyday car, covering 50k miles in about 4.5 years. Great fun and totally useable year round as long as you treat it with respect as weather conditions dictate
As far as I'm aware the hood's etc were the same throughout the life of the S series. Because of the age of the originals by now, I expect that whichever you buy it'll be worth reproofing the hood and possibly replacing the rubber seals, particularly if you'll be using it everyday.
Later cars were also fitted with rear disc brakes rather than the original drums.
If using everyday again I would look at modifying the headlights so that they are better than a pair of candles and improving the performance of the wipers/blades (there's been threads making these changes in the past if you search)
Good luck!
Longers
My first S (V6 S2) was my everyday car, covering 50k miles in about 4.5 years. Great fun and totally useable year round as long as you treat it with respect as weather conditions dictate
As far as I'm aware the hood's etc were the same throughout the life of the S series. Because of the age of the originals by now, I expect that whichever you buy it'll be worth reproofing the hood and possibly replacing the rubber seals, particularly if you'll be using it everyday.
Later cars were also fitted with rear disc brakes rather than the original drums.
If using everyday again I would look at modifying the headlights so that they are better than a pair of candles and improving the performance of the wipers/blades (there's been threads making these changes in the past if you search)
Good luck!
Longers
Barkychoc said:
Will your daily drive involve much traffic?
The V8S really isn't bad on a run, but can drink it stuck in traffic.
The S is a very straightforward simple car to maintain with mainly ford or ford/rover mechanicals.
Chris
Not especially - coming in from my house it's mostly b-roads with a few bits of relatively quiet suburbia. If I was brave enough to park a TVR on the street outside my misus's flat in London it's about 10 minutes in Suburbia, then blasting along an uncharaterstically quiet stretch of the M25.The V8S really isn't bad on a run, but can drink it stuck in traffic.
The S is a very straightforward simple car to maintain with mainly ford or ford/rover mechanicals.
Chris
I wonder if the V8S might be edging towards overkill. It would be significantly quicker than any of my previous cars and I might be better off starting off with a V6 S or 350i and then upgrading to a Chimera in the future if I catch the TVR bug.
A lot depends on the insurance - if I can get a decent deal currently I might be tempted to (very carefully!) look for a winter bargain in the next month or two. If not, I'll leave it 'till April when I'll be 25 and possibly open to more insurance schemes. If I was to do that, my budget will have grown in the meantime and I might give some thought to a V8S or even a Chimera. The thing is though, I can afford to blow an engine up or something on a £5k car, even looking ahead I wouldn't have much left to play with on a £10k Chimera once I'd bought and insured it.
Chris,
I changed my first S2 for a Chimaera but I've had 2 more S's since the Chimaera. Yes the Chimaera is more refined and may suit better as an everyday car, but the S is so much more fun and (if doing lots of miles) can work out a lot cheaper. As I've said before to people thinking of a cheap Chimaera, they are cheap for a reason and will normally cost you money sooner or later, whereas with an S you'll have better chance of finding a sorted example and £'s left over to maintain it. Drive both before deciding
I changed my first S2 for a Chimaera but I've had 2 more S's since the Chimaera. Yes the Chimaera is more refined and may suit better as an everyday car, but the S is so much more fun and (if doing lots of miles) can work out a lot cheaper. As I've said before to people thinking of a cheap Chimaera, they are cheap for a reason and will normally cost you money sooner or later, whereas with an S you'll have better chance of finding a sorted example and £'s left over to maintain it. Drive both before deciding
Gentleman Geoff said:
Chris71 said:
...and then upgrading to a Chimera in the future
Thanks Longers - can you expand upon your comments on the S being more fun? I preume the comment about doing lots of miles refers to economy? Still haven't heard MPG figures for either. It's not a huge consideration, but could be the decider on two evenly matched cars as I plan to use it maybe 75% of the time - everyday in the summer and decent days during the winter, something like that.
Chimaera cost more to run than S because of:
1. Fuel - Chimaera V8 against S V6 used more fuel especially round town as mentioned by Barkychoc above.
2. Insurance was more on Chimaera (no limited mileage deals when it was my everyday car!)
3. General servicing etc more on Chimaera - S parts are cheaper being Ford etc and cos the Chimaera was brought from a main dealer with warranty they had to service it, whereas S goes to a top indie that is far far cheaper
4. Depreciation less on S, although Chimaera prices have dropped considerably since I sold mine so not so much of an issue at the 'bottom end' of the Chimaera market.
S is more fun cos Chimaera felt like a big wafty lazy GT car, which it was. S is more ALIVE and puts a bigger smile on my face even when going relatively slowly
1. Fuel - Chimaera V8 against S V6 used more fuel especially round town as mentioned by Barkychoc above.
2. Insurance was more on Chimaera (no limited mileage deals when it was my everyday car!)
3. General servicing etc more on Chimaera - S parts are cheaper being Ford etc and cos the Chimaera was brought from a main dealer with warranty they had to service it, whereas S goes to a top indie that is far far cheaper
4. Depreciation less on S, although Chimaera prices have dropped considerably since I sold mine so not so much of an issue at the 'bottom end' of the Chimaera market.
S is more fun cos Chimaera felt like a big wafty lazy GT car, which it was. S is more ALIVE and puts a bigger smile on my face even when going relatively slowly
coolcatmaz said:
try Hagerty (at Silverstone)for insurance. They insure based on the car and NOT the driver. I got a very good deal on mine considering my age and the fact I lost all 16yrs 'no claims' when I came off my ex's insurance last year.
Ohhhh 
Just called them and I couldn't believe the quote. Ok, this is social use only and a maximum of 5000 miles, but they wanted £189 for a 350i and £198 for an S - I think the only difference being the S was one year more recent.
£189 - Jesus! I didn't think I could insure a moped for that at my age. That's a quarter of what I pay for my very, very ordinary daily driver and it's still only half what I pay for my 1600cc kit car on a li9mited mileage policy! Which, coincidentally is now up for sale incase anyone wants to part-ex their TVR for something a bit more minimalist.
The comparision with the Chimera was exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Could anyone sum up the contrast to the wedge in the same fashion?
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