So what's going on then?
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
So what is going on? There was a reply but it disappeared!
Yes, I read the reply, and it contained some disturbing stuff, though it was but one side of the story and without hearing the other side I don't know what to make of it. Anyhow, as an outsider it's none of my business.I can only assume it has been removed in order to try to avoid a punch-up between HPC members and others.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
Dr Jekyll said:
So what is going on? There was a reply but it disappeared!
Yes, I read the reply, and it contained some disturbing stuff, though it was but one side of the story and without hearing the other side I don't know what to make of it. Anyhow, as an outsider it's none of my business.I can only assume it has been removed in order to try to avoid a punch-up between HPC members and others.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I was thinking of paying the necessary to join the HPC.
What I am seeing here makes me think I should wait.
ipsg.glf said:
I posted a response but the HPC bods complained to Ted who had to pull it.
If anyone has any specific queries regarding HPC, I'll be more than happy to answer them (if I can).
Thats the good thing about 'Freedom of Speech', there's always someone willing to moderate and control it.If anyone has any specific queries regarding HPC, I'll be more than happy to answer them (if I can).
BFF
I'm not a HPC member but what I've heard, apart from what was on the pulled post, is:
Concern about standards, attitudes etc from the club and the gatekeepers. From what I was told the gatekeepers themselves were pressing for an 'associate' level before full membership.
A Vauxhall (Omega?) written off on a club event recently.
I don't see why we shouldn't be able to discuss HPC on this forum. We talk about IAM and Rospa all the time on public forums and HPC is far more expensive to join, so we ought to be able to make the decision with as much info a possible. If HOC high command object to me posting rumours, then they should be more open so we don't have to rely on rumours.
What I'd really like to know is why they fell out with John Lyon.
Concern about standards, attitudes etc from the club and the gatekeepers. From what I was told the gatekeepers themselves were pressing for an 'associate' level before full membership.
A Vauxhall (Omega?) written off on a club event recently.
I don't see why we shouldn't be able to discuss HPC on this forum. We talk about IAM and Rospa all the time on public forums and HPC is far more expensive to join, so we ought to be able to make the decision with as much info a possible. If HOC high command object to me posting rumours, then they should be more open so we don't have to rely on rumours.
What I'd really like to know is why they fell out with John Lyon.
OSGrooves said:
I am also thinking about paying the necessary to join but there is no way I am going to do this whilst there are all these questions hanging around.
Can someone post a non-biased assessment of what is going on please.
There is no-unbiased viewpoint. You either agree with "them" and the way that they do things, or you don't. I didn't and decided I no longer wanted to remain a member of such an organisation. Can someone post a non-biased assessment of what is going on please.
You'll be hard pressed to find any existing HPC member willing to comment. It is now a Club disciplinary offence for any HPC member to comment publicly on "disagreements".
I really don't want to get involved in this discussion, except to say that I did the half day course with John Lyon...and later the full day, including Millbrook.
I can understand that some might find his rather 'dry' comments less than pleasing ('You can't teach an old dog new tricks, to me')....for £500 ish was not what I wanted to hear at the time, but better than blowing smoke up my arse by telling me how 'good' I was, and suggesting that I spend more cash joining his course?
He did not try to sign me up, or sell me more lessons... just gave me a very detailed debrief on how much I had still to learn.
Could it be that JL was not 'commercially aware' enough to make HPC a 'viable business'..as opposed to being a Master Driver helping plonkers like me?
BOF.
http://www.john-lyon.co.uk/t&c.htm
Could it be, that - as it appears to me sometimes, some VERY good drivers, in the absence of having found a career in IT or banking, are trying to make money from a hobby...this is NOT a criticism of the the companies mentioned on this thread!
I can understand that some might find his rather 'dry' comments less than pleasing ('You can't teach an old dog new tricks, to me')....for £500 ish was not what I wanted to hear at the time, but better than blowing smoke up my arse by telling me how 'good' I was, and suggesting that I spend more cash joining his course?
He did not try to sign me up, or sell me more lessons... just gave me a very detailed debrief on how much I had still to learn.
Could it be that JL was not 'commercially aware' enough to make HPC a 'viable business'..as opposed to being a Master Driver helping plonkers like me?
BOF.
http://www.john-lyon.co.uk/t&c.htm
Could it be, that - as it appears to me sometimes, some VERY good drivers, in the absence of having found a career in IT or banking, are trying to make money from a hobby...this is NOT a criticism of the the companies mentioned on this thread!
Edited by BOF on Thursday 13th December 18:42
BOF said:
Could it be that JL was not 'commercially aware' enough to make HPC a 'viable business'..as opposed to being a Master Driver helping plonkers like me?
I think it highly likely there are some instructing for well known outfits whose brief is that total honesty in feedback may not be good for repeat business & would therefore be discouraged.I should add that in saying that, I haven't heard any such allegations in relation to HPC.
vonhosen said:
BOF said:
Could it be that JL was not 'commercially aware' enough to make HPC a 'viable business'..as opposed to being a Master Driver helping plonkers like me?
I think it highly likely there are some instructing for well known outfits whose brief is that total honesty in feedback may not be good for repeat business & would therefore be discouraged.I should add that in saying that, I haven't heard any such allegations in relation to HPC.
So it's not just repeat business that determines the form of feedback.
This is not directed at JL or HPC as I have no first hand experience of either. JL's does have a reputation, but that's not for me to comment on!
So for example, I have been working with a coach on my track driving in prep for racing next year. I feel good about the process and the encouragement I get. So I feel inspired to do it. If he said to me the blunt reality...Bert, you are fat, mid-forties and you'll start off tooling around the back, but you will prob pick up pace as you go, I would feel much less good about it!
Bert
PS usual Bert-ish hijack, sorry.
Bert
ipsg.glf said:
You'll be hard pressed to find any existing HPC member willing to comment. It is now a Club disciplinary offence for any HPC member to comment publicly on "disagreements".
The first rule of High Performance Club is - you do not speak about High Performance Club.The second rule of High Performance Club is - you DO NOT speak about High Performance Club.
DJ_AS said:
ipsg.glf said:
You'll be hard pressed to find any existing HPC member willing to comment. It is now a Club disciplinary offence for any HPC member to comment publicly on "disagreements".
The first rule of High Performance Club is - you do not speak about High Performance Club.The second rule of High Performance Club is - you DO NOT speak about High Performance Club.
BertBert said:
DJ_AS said:
ipsg.glf said:
You'll be hard pressed to find any existing HPC member willing to comment. It is now a Club disciplinary offence for any HPC member to comment publicly on "disagreements".
The first rule of High Performance Club is - you do not speak about High Performance Club.The second rule of High Performance Club is - you DO NOT speak about High Performance Club.
)Edited to add: taking the mikey out of the apparently clandestine tendancies of the HPC. I have no experience of the HPC but the comments here, the quote above and the removal of the reply to the OP makes it all sound a bit dodgy (in a 'what are they trying to hide' kinda way) and is certainly not good publicity. I always regarded HPC membership as something to aspire to, but now I have my doubts.
Edited by DJ_AS on Friday 14th December 12:06
DJ_AS said:
BertBert said:
DJ_AS said:
ipsg.glf said:
You'll be hard pressed to find any existing HPC member willing to comment. It is now a Club disciplinary offence for any HPC member to comment publicly on "disagreements".
The first rule of High Performance Club is - you do not speak about High Performance Club.The second rule of High Performance Club is - you DO NOT speak about High Performance Club.
)Edited to add: taking the mikey out of the apparently clandestine tendancies of the HPC. I have no experience of the HPC but the comments here, the quote above and the removal of the reply to the OP makes it all sound a bit dodgy (in a 'what are they trying to hide' kinda way) and is certainly not good publicity. I always regarded HPC membership as something to aspire to, but now I have my doubts.
Edited by DJ_AS on Friday 14th December 12:06
If cars are being written off (2 that I know of) or member are coming to the attention of the police (4 occasions that I know of) then what does that say about driving standards?
Much emphasis is placed on smoothness when it comes to HPC driving. Yet if safety is being compromised by smoothness, it does seem emphasis on smoothness is mis-placed. Let's stop having collisions and start spotting the nice policeman at the side of the road in the flourescent jacket first and then worry about whether that last gear change was as smooth as it could possibly be.
The perceived wisom within HPC was that HPC Gold was equivalent to Police Class 1 driving. For the former, the member would have had to take a 2.5 day course followed by a 1 day assessment.
For the latter, a Police Officer would take a 3 week standard response course, usually followed by a number of years driving a panda on response. Then, a 1 -2 hour assessment for an Advanced course and then the actual course itself (4 weeks).
I readily accept that all HPC members are driving enthusiasts and that isn't necessarily the case for all police drivers.
But a Police Advanced Driver will have many hundreds (if not thousands) of hours of operational police driving.
It just seems ludicrous to me to make such comparisons when you are comparing apples with pears.
I appreciate the HPC is a social club and so probably doesn't want to introduce complicated rules but time and time again I have heard the HPC suggest that their standards are le creme de la creme. In my experience that simply was not the case.
Having witnessed some pretty unpalatable things on a HPC event in January 2007, I wondered how I would feel if an innocent member of the public was injured (or worse) during a collision on an HPC event. And I also wondered how I would feel if I thought that my silence or my inaction meant that something could have been done to prevent it.
As it is, I no longer have any association with the Club. I cannot stress enough how pleased I am that this is the case.
BertBert said:
vonhosen said:
BOF said:
Could it be that JL was not 'commercially aware' enough to make HPC a 'viable business'..as opposed to being a Master Driver helping plonkers like me?
I think it highly likely there are some instructing for well known outfits whose brief is that total honesty in feedback may not be good for repeat business & would therefore be discouraged.I should add that in saying that, I haven't heard any such allegations in relation to HPC.
So it's not just repeat business that determines the form of feedback.
This is not directed at JL or HPC as I have no first hand experience of either. JL's does have a reputation, but that's not for me to comment on!
So for example, I have been working with a coach on my track driving in prep for racing next year. I feel good about the process and the encouragement I get. So I feel inspired to do it. If he said to me the blunt reality...Bert, you are fat, mid-forties and you'll start off tooling around the back, but you will prob pick up pace as you go, I would feel much less good about it!
Bert
PS usual Bert-ish hijack, sorry.
Bert
When I said total honesty I was talking about the total honesty or validity of the process, rather than brutal honesty in the feedback itself.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 14th December 17:52
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