Circuit based training for bike test
Discussion
Hi as you may know i want to pass my bike test by spring'08.
However upon reading BIKE (DEC 2007) it seems that the basic CBT training is very basic and only equips bikers to get going on a bike and scraping pass their test. I read an article in said mag that said the majority of fatalities that happen to bikers are at 55mph round a bend becuase bikers cant seem to handle corners (im talking about inexperienced riders here) ending up heading into lorries etc.
It seems that circuit based training will be a more comprehensive way of learning to ride a bike. I know for example that mallory park has ciruit based training that incoperates more than the basics into its programme. Things like hard braking (stopping from 70 mph in a straight line), fast direction changing, fast cornering, throttle control, conter steering etc as well as the basic componenents of the test. I feel that this route will equip me with much more skills as a newbie rider helping me to be safer and have better control of the bike as well as understand the dynamics better. Hopefully allow me to be faster too
all in theory of course!
What i want to know is does anyone know any good places that i could learn to ride a bike properly. preferably all inclusive i.e bike rental included, the test, basically the whole lot!! not too bothered where as im willing to travel to get the best training possible. web addresses would be ideal.
However upon reading BIKE (DEC 2007) it seems that the basic CBT training is very basic and only equips bikers to get going on a bike and scraping pass their test. I read an article in said mag that said the majority of fatalities that happen to bikers are at 55mph round a bend becuase bikers cant seem to handle corners (im talking about inexperienced riders here) ending up heading into lorries etc.
It seems that circuit based training will be a more comprehensive way of learning to ride a bike. I know for example that mallory park has ciruit based training that incoperates more than the basics into its programme. Things like hard braking (stopping from 70 mph in a straight line), fast direction changing, fast cornering, throttle control, conter steering etc as well as the basic componenents of the test. I feel that this route will equip me with much more skills as a newbie rider helping me to be safer and have better control of the bike as well as understand the dynamics better. Hopefully allow me to be faster too
all in theory of course!What i want to know is does anyone know any good places that i could learn to ride a bike properly. preferably all inclusive i.e bike rental included, the test, basically the whole lot!! not too bothered where as im willing to travel to get the best training possible. web addresses would be ideal.
On my first day of training at Mallory Park by Sean Hayes I was doing an emergency stop round a bend at 70mph.
Excellent training by Sean and Dave, really impressed with how it all came together on the road and I think it's a fantastic way to be taught.
I passed first time after no previous experience and am really looking forward to my first ride on my ZXR.
Highly reccomended, it will help you out enormously!
Dave!
Excellent training by Sean and Dave, really impressed with how it all came together on the road and I think it's a fantastic way to be taught.
I passed first time after no previous experience and am really looking forward to my first ride on my ZXR.
Highly reccomended, it will help you out enormously!
Dave!
I did my training 6 years ago with Sean Hayes, based at Donington Park and have to say it was superb! Sean wants to make riders out of his students, not just people who can pass a test. Once the basic CBT was done it was incredibly useful to use the Melbourne Loop of the track to try emergency stops (from 70 mph plus not just 30 mph), turning at speed, etc. I would highly recommend Circuit-Based Training (now at Mallory Park I understand) for anyone who wants to learn or develop their skills (they also run advanced training).
think this is what you are after
http://www.circuitbasedtraining.co.uk/default.asp
I remember going out on the bike shortly after passing my test and moving over to let a transit van get past me down a country lane as I hadn't quite got used leaning through the corners, still it hasn't happened since
The cbt is very basic but most of the people who take this as their only training have a 50cc moped and are 16 and male so getting to 30mph and a lack of road sense are their main problems, not cornering at 55
The bike test is of course set to get harder in 2008 as more elements are added to the test, this hopefully should help the inexperienced rider, however even this won't really prepare you for over cooking it into a corner.
Practicing on a track is a good idea providing that it doesn't give you too much confidence when you get out on the road.
http://www.circuitbasedtraining.co.uk/default.asp
I remember going out on the bike shortly after passing my test and moving over to let a transit van get past me down a country lane as I hadn't quite got used leaning through the corners, still it hasn't happened since
The cbt is very basic but most of the people who take this as their only training have a 50cc moped and are 16 and male so getting to 30mph and a lack of road sense are their main problems, not cornering at 55
The bike test is of course set to get harder in 2008 as more elements are added to the test, this hopefully should help the inexperienced rider, however even this won't really prepare you for over cooking it into a corner.
Practicing on a track is a good idea providing that it doesn't give you too much confidence when you get out on the road.
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 17th December 23:21
Been a bike instructor for over seven years, also RoSpa Gold standard rider myself and an emergency fire appliance driver (!).
The current CBT is exactly what it says on the tin; Compulsory BASIC Training.
It's only designed to get you on the road and hopefully not kill yourself for long enough for you to work out the rest yourself. It's not designed to get you through a test, it's not designed to teach you to ride at high speeds.
It's excellent that some training providers have the ability and the facility to do so much more, but the biggest restricting factor for the rest of us is space and cost.
Most training areas are desperately small (have you tried renting a large flat area recently), most training schools struggle to turn a decent profit (hence the lousy wages compared to car instructors...) and the standard of some instructors is really poor (I know one guy who tells his students never to use the front brake because he thinks it's dangerous).
Problem is, punters won't pay the fortunes they pay to car instructors when they want to learn how to ride a bike, therefore profits are small, therefore wages low, therefore it's often numpties who are the instructors. (Personally I do it to suplement an adequate wage with the benefits of working for a bike shop.)
Many of the accidents I know of involving new riders are those who have done 4/5 day DAS courses where the rider is taught only how to pass the test and not actually ride the bike. Zero experience on Monday, sit your test Friday morning is generally not a good recipe for safety. Most students have spent four days trundling round the test routes so they know "just what the examiner is looking for here" and have been taught automaton style observations on the approach to junctions without actually knowing what they are looking for!
I had one student recently who was doing an extra two hours before re-sitting his test (pulled out in front of a car on his first; doing an automaton look over the wrong shoulder), and he had never gone above 50 mph as the stretch of dual carriageway on the local test route is a 50 limit. When we went beyond where he knew he actually pulled into a layby to tell me he didn't know where to go and it wasn't fair because Vince never went this way!
Can't think of an obvious solution to the problems above:
Charge more for training? Customers go elsewhere.
Sack the numpties? Who else will do it for £7 an hour in December.
Stricter enforcement from DSA? They don't have the staff.
Best advice I can give you though is if you're going to sit your bike test, do it before October 2008: the changes to the test are not only ludicrous, but the off road manouvres are verging on dangerous.
But that's another topic...
The current CBT is exactly what it says on the tin; Compulsory BASIC Training.
It's only designed to get you on the road and hopefully not kill yourself for long enough for you to work out the rest yourself. It's not designed to get you through a test, it's not designed to teach you to ride at high speeds.
It's excellent that some training providers have the ability and the facility to do so much more, but the biggest restricting factor for the rest of us is space and cost.
Most training areas are desperately small (have you tried renting a large flat area recently), most training schools struggle to turn a decent profit (hence the lousy wages compared to car instructors...) and the standard of some instructors is really poor (I know one guy who tells his students never to use the front brake because he thinks it's dangerous).
Problem is, punters won't pay the fortunes they pay to car instructors when they want to learn how to ride a bike, therefore profits are small, therefore wages low, therefore it's often numpties who are the instructors. (Personally I do it to suplement an adequate wage with the benefits of working for a bike shop.)
Many of the accidents I know of involving new riders are those who have done 4/5 day DAS courses where the rider is taught only how to pass the test and not actually ride the bike. Zero experience on Monday, sit your test Friday morning is generally not a good recipe for safety. Most students have spent four days trundling round the test routes so they know "just what the examiner is looking for here" and have been taught automaton style observations on the approach to junctions without actually knowing what they are looking for!
I had one student recently who was doing an extra two hours before re-sitting his test (pulled out in front of a car on his first; doing an automaton look over the wrong shoulder), and he had never gone above 50 mph as the stretch of dual carriageway on the local test route is a 50 limit. When we went beyond where he knew he actually pulled into a layby to tell me he didn't know where to go and it wasn't fair because Vince never went this way!
Can't think of an obvious solution to the problems above:
Charge more for training? Customers go elsewhere.
Sack the numpties? Who else will do it for £7 an hour in December.
Stricter enforcement from DSA? They don't have the staff.
Best advice I can give you though is if you're going to sit your bike test, do it before October 2008: the changes to the test are not only ludicrous, but the off road manouvres are verging on dangerous.
But that's another topic...
Hi all,
I've done some circuit training with Sean and it was a great day out. I expect his DAS training would be excellent. Although, however good Sean's training, please don't stop there!
There's only so much training you can inject into a novice. The best thing is to broaden and deepen your riding expertise with further training.
When I started, I set aside some budget for training as well as my bike and clothing. In my first year, I went dirt biking, did a track school and, best of all, invested in advanced training. The extra skills hugely increased how much fun I had and still have on the bike
, alongside the knowledge to avoid the usual bike accidents .
Once you've passed DAS, I'd recommend booking a Bikesafe day or IAM course straight away. These are easy starters for new and experienced riders alike: www.iam.org.uk/eshop/membershipshop/sfl.htm or www.bikesafe.co.uk . Similarly, RoADAR could interest too ( www.roadar.org.uk/riders/why/index.htm ).
Whether you're more serious (or curious) about becoming a great rider, then professional training is where it's at . Regardless of your experience, a top notch instructor will tailor training to your personal needs and desires. Investing a day (or two) with one of the following will massively boost your riding abilities for years to come :
- Rapid Training: www.rapidtraining.co.uk/e/faq.htm
- UK Advanced: www.advanced-motorcycle-training.co.uk/Courses.asp
- RideDrive: www.ridedrive.co.uk/motorcycle-ocnl2.htm
Highly recommended
Hope this is helpful for you
PS You might like to read this thread about BikeSafe:
www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&t=47...
I've done some circuit training with Sean and it was a great day out. I expect his DAS training would be excellent. Although, however good Sean's training, please don't stop there!
There's only so much training you can inject into a novice. The best thing is to broaden and deepen your riding expertise with further training.
When I started, I set aside some budget for training as well as my bike and clothing. In my first year, I went dirt biking, did a track school and, best of all, invested in advanced training. The extra skills hugely increased how much fun I had and still have on the bike
, alongside the knowledge to avoid the usual bike accidents .Once you've passed DAS, I'd recommend booking a Bikesafe day or IAM course straight away. These are easy starters for new and experienced riders alike: www.iam.org.uk/eshop/membershipshop/sfl.htm or www.bikesafe.co.uk . Similarly, RoADAR could interest too ( www.roadar.org.uk/riders/why/index.htm ).
Whether you're more serious (or curious) about becoming a great rider, then professional training is where it's at
. Regardless of your experience, a top notch instructor will tailor training to your personal needs and desires. Investing a day (or two) with one of the following will massively boost your riding abilities for years to come :- Rapid Training: www.rapidtraining.co.uk/e/faq.htm
- UK Advanced: www.advanced-motorcycle-training.co.uk/Courses.asp
- RideDrive: www.ridedrive.co.uk/motorcycle-ocnl2.htm
Highly recommended
Hope this is helpful for you
PS You might like to read this thread about BikeSafe:
www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&t=47...
Edited by SVS on Wednesday 19th December 19:32
Hi there,
Personally, I reckon you should start advanced training early, in order to get into the best possible habits and avoid the usual new rider mistakes.
The only pressure would be if you wanted to take an advanced test. However, there are loads of great training courses available without the pressure of a test. Just go for the training and enjoy your new skills
If I was you, I'd say the ideal thing would be to book two days training with the likes of UK Advanced, RideDrive or Rapid Training. Book them both in the diary before the trainers book up. Do one day as soon as you've passed, then the second a few months later. Ideal.
Cheers
Personally, I reckon you should start advanced training early, in order to get into the best possible habits and avoid the usual new rider mistakes.
The only pressure would be if you wanted to take an advanced test. However, there are loads of great training courses available without the pressure of a test. Just go for the training and enjoy your new skills
If I was you, I'd say the ideal thing would be to book two days training with the likes of UK Advanced, RideDrive or Rapid Training. Book them both in the diary before the trainers book up. Do one day as soon as you've passed, then the second a few months later. Ideal.
Cheers
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