The price of your gas just went up by 10%
Discussion
If you pulled into your local petrol station of a morning and found that your petrol/diesel had gone up by 10% there would be blood on the moon and a hell of a kick up would then follow.
Two years ago I paid to have my car a Mercedes S320 converted to LPG, paid two grand plus vat at 17.5% (£350 to the government). There was no incentive except to save money and I like a lot of diesel drivers a few years ago have been grining from ear to ear (after I finished paying for the conversion from savings of the difference between petrol and LPG)because my bill was way way below those petrol car drivers.
The price of LPG was increased by 10% last week so its coming up on the outside rail trying to catch up with petrol.
The government has by stealth increased the cost of diesel because it realised drivers were getting more miles per gallon therefore reducing their return. Now it is the turn of LPG which has a lesser environmental effect than both petrol and diesel....go figure.
The price by the way went up from 42.9p to 47.9p per litre
Two years ago I paid to have my car a Mercedes S320 converted to LPG, paid two grand plus vat at 17.5% (£350 to the government). There was no incentive except to save money and I like a lot of diesel drivers a few years ago have been grining from ear to ear (after I finished paying for the conversion from savings of the difference between petrol and LPG)because my bill was way way below those petrol car drivers.
The price of LPG was increased by 10% last week so its coming up on the outside rail trying to catch up with petrol.
The government has by stealth increased the cost of diesel because it realised drivers were getting more miles per gallon therefore reducing their return. Now it is the turn of LPG which has a lesser environmental effect than both petrol and diesel....go figure.
The price by the way went up from 42.9p to 47.9p per litre
Anyone who didn't believe the government wouldn't raise duty on LPG once the number of users increased only have themselves to blame.
If you're still saving 50% and you're doing enough mileage, then you're still saving.
I do 20,000 miles a year in a 20mpg car using petrol at [currently] £1.0399/litre.
If you're still saving 50% and you're doing enough mileage, then you're still saving.
I do 20,000 miles a year in a 20mpg car using petrol at [currently] £1.0399/litre.
lpg cars are dual fuel. My Omega MV6 has it's factory 75L guzzoline tank, plus a 60L (holds 50L with 10L headspace) LPG tank, where the spare whale should be.
As has been said - the independents vary in price but are often mid-high 30's compared to the big names that are over 50p/L in the south. My local BP is 53.9 for LPG, I paid 49.9 in Flintshire last week, and I've seen 46.9 at at Shell in the Sheffield area.
Of course, if you have LPG at home for heating/cooking, you could always get a transfer pump and fill up at home. Don't forget to fill in the forms and pay Captain Darling for ever litre you use (you will - won't you?!) and it works out cheaper than forecourt (depending on who's supplying you). LPG for heat is circa 26p-28p/L plus your 16.49p/L for Captain Darling.
Now - another option - convert to C/LNG. You can get "house-side" pumps which take natural gas from the mains, and compresses it/liquefies it for delivery to your vehicle. The tax for that is a little lower at 13.7p/L
Right now, there is no tax levied on Bio-Gas according to HMRC, they only list bio-ethanol, and bio-diesel. Not Bio-Methane. Get your anaerobic digester going, eat more beans, and off you go!
I don't expect it will be long before Captain Darling and General Melchett catch on though....
Those with diesels - I know of people who have added LPG systems to them.. make's em go like..... but you have to be careful, or you can end up with lots of melted ally! Almost as good as adding N2O to a petrol! A bottle of Calor in the boot!
As has been said - the independents vary in price but are often mid-high 30's compared to the big names that are over 50p/L in the south. My local BP is 53.9 for LPG, I paid 49.9 in Flintshire last week, and I've seen 46.9 at at Shell in the Sheffield area.
Of course, if you have LPG at home for heating/cooking, you could always get a transfer pump and fill up at home. Don't forget to fill in the forms and pay Captain Darling for ever litre you use (you will - won't you?!) and it works out cheaper than forecourt (depending on who's supplying you). LPG for heat is circa 26p-28p/L plus your 16.49p/L for Captain Darling.
Now - another option - convert to C/LNG. You can get "house-side" pumps which take natural gas from the mains, and compresses it/liquefies it for delivery to your vehicle. The tax for that is a little lower at 13.7p/L
Right now, there is no tax levied on Bio-Gas according to HMRC, they only list bio-ethanol, and bio-diesel. Not Bio-Methane. Get your anaerobic digester going, eat more beans, and off you go!
I don't expect it will be long before Captain Darling and General Melchett catch on though....
Those with diesels - I know of people who have added LPG systems to them.. make's em go like..... but you have to be careful, or you can end up with lots of melted ally! Almost as good as adding N2O to a petrol! A bottle of Calor in the boot!
Scraggles said:
not surprised that the price was not upped by the retailers, LPG users something of a captive market, can they only use lpg or other fuels as well ?
Bit like diesel becoming more expensive than petrol when it should be cheaper
Are there different taxes on diesel than on petrol?Bit like diesel becoming more expensive than petrol when it should be cheaper
Replying to your own topic seems a little sad but here goes. Do you know if your local MP does his little bit to save the planet. Do you know what he drives. DO YOU KNOW HIS E MAIL ADDRESS TO ASK ? Does he diesel.Does he petrol or even LPG ?
If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
m6blanch said:
Replying to your own topic seems a little sad but here goes. Do you know if your local MP does his little bit to save the planet. Do you know what he drives. DO YOU KNOW HIS E MAIL ADDRESS TO ASK ? Does he diesel.Does he petrol or even LPG ?
If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
It's hard not to fall for this let's all blame the Chinese propaganda, but don't forget there are 1.3 billion people in China and they are busy making stuff for the rest of us. The per person emissions of the Chinese are between 1/5 and 1/10 of the europeans even though they are making so much of our stuff.If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
herewego said:
m6blanch said:
Replying to your own topic seems a little sad but here goes. Do you know if your local MP does his little bit to save the planet. Do you know what he drives. DO YOU KNOW HIS E MAIL ADDRESS TO ASK ? Does he diesel.Does he petrol or even LPG ?
If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
It's hard not to fall for this let's all blame the Chinese propaganda, but don't forget there are 1.3 billion people in China and they are busy making stuff for the rest of us. The per person emissions of the Chinese are between 1/5 and 1/10 of the europeans even though they are making so much of our stuff.If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
Laird said:
herewego said:
m6blanch said:
Replying to your own topic seems a little sad but here goes. Do you know if your local MP does his little bit to save the planet. Do you know what he drives. DO YOU KNOW HIS E MAIL ADDRESS TO ASK ? Does he diesel.Does he petrol or even LPG ?
If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
It's hard not to fall for this let's all blame the Chinese propaganda, but don't forget there are 1.3 billion people in China and they are busy making stuff for the rest of us. The per person emissions of the Chinese are between 1/5 and 1/10 of the europeans even though they are making so much of our stuff.If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
Most people are not average. You can easily find individuals polluting more or less than average anywhere. Obviously I'm talking about overall average figures.
herewego said:
Laird said:
herewego said:
m6blanch said:
Replying to your own topic seems a little sad but here goes. Do you know if your local MP does his little bit to save the planet. Do you know what he drives. DO YOU KNOW HIS E MAIL ADDRESS TO ASK ? Does he diesel.Does he petrol or even LPG ?
If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
It's hard not to fall for this let's all blame the Chinese propaganda, but don't forget there are 1.3 billion people in China and they are busy making stuff for the rest of us. The per person emissions of the Chinese are between 1/5 and 1/10 of the europeans even though they are making so much of our stuff.If he drives a gas guzzler a pound to a pinch of shit he claims mileage on government business. YOUR MONEY. Nobody else's but yours. So find out when your MP, MEP and my case Member of the Welsh Assembly has his surgery, find out his website and find out if his is indeed doing his bit for the planet.
As a matter of interest I saw a newspaper article that said one days CO2 emmission for China is equivalent to 10 years of the UK. If that be true why are we worrying about a bit of extra CO2 we are producing just buy a new MG and be done with it.
Most people are not average. You can easily find individuals polluting more or less than average anywhere. Obviously I'm talking about overall average figures.
When will people learn that the government is king of spin. They come out waving their green flag, yet supposedly greener fuels like LPG gas and to an extent diesel get higher tax increases than petrol. It wasn't that long ago that diesel was significantly cheaper than petrol. Have you ever seen a politician drive a car which does more than 30 to the gallon!.
Although there have been some concessions for smaller vehicles, my run around is a 1 litre micra which does 50+ to the gallon. Why arn't cars like that tax free if the government does supposedly care for the environment?.
It doesn't really matter what we do so long as the yanks veto every green conference and continue producing 25% of global pollution.
Although there have been some concessions for smaller vehicles, my run around is a 1 litre micra which does 50+ to the gallon. Why arn't cars like that tax free if the government does supposedly care for the environment?.
It doesn't really matter what we do so long as the yanks veto every green conference and continue producing 25% of global pollution.
quattrophenia said:
When will people learn that the government is king of spin. They come out waving their green flag, yet supposedly greener fuels like LPG gas and to an extent diesel get higher tax increases than petrol. It wasn't that long ago that diesel was significantly cheaper than petrol. Have you ever seen a politician drive a car which does more than 30 to the gallon!.
Although there have been some concessions for smaller vehicles, my run around is a 1 litre micra which does 50+ to the gallon. Why arn't cars like that tax free if the government does supposedly care for the environment?.
It doesn't really matter what we do so long as the yanks veto every green conference and continue producing 25% of global pollution.
Having a look at the flag they may be but waving it, I don’t think so. They certainly haven’t done much yet. Green taxes are apparently lower now than 10 years ago. The only thing of note that I’ve seen is to add £10 onto a plane ticket. They even abolished the fuel tax escalator a few years ago. From an environmental point of view there’s no reason for LPG tax to be much lower than petrol since the CO2 saving is quite small, although it does apparently burn cleaner.Although there have been some concessions for smaller vehicles, my run around is a 1 litre micra which does 50+ to the gallon. Why arn't cars like that tax free if the government does supposedly care for the environment?.
It doesn't really matter what we do so long as the yanks veto every green conference and continue producing 25% of global pollution.
There are some cars free of annual road tax aren’t there? I think quite a few manufacturers have produced cars now that do about 70 mpg I think.
Blaming the yanks (and the Canadians and the Aussies) is good but not enough in itself, because we’re not far behind.
The first thing that is very evident is that this Goverment's C02 policy is all about raising revenue rather that their excuse about saving the planet.
They only ever quote 'household emissions' that include central heating boilers, cooking and all of the other electrical devices that we have and 'need' these days. If you extrapalate all of these from the total and take out the business need for using cars then all of our social car emissions is negligible. But politically they wont tax the others, only car travel as unfortunately we as a society are now beliving that all motoring is becoming socially unaceptable and we are talking about individual Co2 footprints and making socity feel guilty.
This by stealth and it is happening
If the goverment were really serious then there are a plethera of ideas that would reduce the UK total emissions.
1.Bring back school buses
2.synchronise traffic lights to provide good traffic flow. Red Ken has changed all of the London traffic light sequences so that only a few cars can get through per change . Probably one of the most polluting ideas ever thought of.
3. Reasonable priced alternatives such as train fares that dont need a Kings ransome to pay for them
4. Dont encourage out of towm shopping centres
5. Encourage parents to walk children to school- double benefit here is is that Kids and parents get some exercise
6. Encourage locally grown produce instead of flying it around the world, I can live without green beans in December!
7. Tax relief from working from home 1-2 days per week. 1 day per week saves 20% travelling and commuter emissions.
8. Reduce the rediculous amount of heavy vehicles on our roads, Try the M25 on weekday rush hour and the 2 inside lanes are mostly trucks
9. Encourage Conference calls for meeting rather that travel
10. Use Local airports more instead of travelling the main central ones
These are just a few on road saving emissions and there many more ideas for industry etc. Turn off all of the Goverment building lights at night time might be up there but it is not their money is it!
Also tell us the truth. It was recently published in a daily national that put C02 into perspective. A gas gussler taking 5 male adults 4 Kilometre emits the same amount of Co2 as the same 5 male adults jogging the same 4 K.
Some of the so- called enviromnetally products turn out to be worse for the environment if you look at the whole product life cylce rather than just when using it.
Look at the place where the batteries are made for the Prius
What we need is un-political facts and unfortuneatley this seems impossible. I wouldn't trust anything a politican said about this topic
They only ever quote 'household emissions' that include central heating boilers, cooking and all of the other electrical devices that we have and 'need' these days. If you extrapalate all of these from the total and take out the business need for using cars then all of our social car emissions is negligible. But politically they wont tax the others, only car travel as unfortunately we as a society are now beliving that all motoring is becoming socially unaceptable and we are talking about individual Co2 footprints and making socity feel guilty.
This by stealth and it is happening
If the goverment were really serious then there are a plethera of ideas that would reduce the UK total emissions.
1.Bring back school buses
2.synchronise traffic lights to provide good traffic flow. Red Ken has changed all of the London traffic light sequences so that only a few cars can get through per change . Probably one of the most polluting ideas ever thought of.
3. Reasonable priced alternatives such as train fares that dont need a Kings ransome to pay for them
4. Dont encourage out of towm shopping centres
5. Encourage parents to walk children to school- double benefit here is is that Kids and parents get some exercise
6. Encourage locally grown produce instead of flying it around the world, I can live without green beans in December!
7. Tax relief from working from home 1-2 days per week. 1 day per week saves 20% travelling and commuter emissions.
8. Reduce the rediculous amount of heavy vehicles on our roads, Try the M25 on weekday rush hour and the 2 inside lanes are mostly trucks
9. Encourage Conference calls for meeting rather that travel
10. Use Local airports more instead of travelling the main central ones
These are just a few on road saving emissions and there many more ideas for industry etc. Turn off all of the Goverment building lights at night time might be up there but it is not their money is it!
Also tell us the truth. It was recently published in a daily national that put C02 into perspective. A gas gussler taking 5 male adults 4 Kilometre emits the same amount of Co2 as the same 5 male adults jogging the same 4 K.
Some of the so- called enviromnetally products turn out to be worse for the environment if you look at the whole product life cylce rather than just when using it.
Look at the place where the batteries are made for the Prius
What we need is un-political facts and unfortuneatley this seems impossible. I wouldn't trust anything a politican said about this topic
I agree with your general premise that the government could do a lot if it wanted to but is actually doing nothing. As you say, not even turning it’s own lights off. It isn’t even attacking cars. Cars have always been a cash cow, nothing to do with greenery.
Edited by herewego on Tuesday 1st January 16:58
WOO5IE said:
The first thing that is very evident is that this Goverment's C02 policy is all about raising revenue rather that their excuse about saving the planet.
May I congratulate you on your insight into what is clearly the truth.WOO5IE said:
They only ever quote 'household emissions' that include central heating boilers, cooking and all of the other electrical devices that we have and 'need' these days. If you extrapalate all of these from the total and take out the business need for using cars then all of our social car emissions is negligible. But politically they wont tax the others, only car travel as unfortunately we as a society are now beliving that all motoring is becoming socially unaceptable and we are talking about individual Co2 footprints and making socity feel guilty.
This by stealth and it is happening
President Brown has passed the mantle of theiving from the rich and poor alike to Captain Darling. Expect no less than finding ways to appear like they're doing something so the press laud them for being "green taxes" when in fact they are doing nothing than stuffing the war chest ready for income tax giveaways or benefit bribes come the next revolution, errr I mean election.This by stealth and it is happening
WOO5IE said:
If the goverment were really serious then there are a plethera of ideas that would reduce the UK total emissions.
1.Bring back school buses
Great idea, but the queues of BMW's and 4x4's at the bus stops will cause all sorts of traffic chaos.1.Bring back school buses
WOO5IE said:
2.synchronise traffic lights to provide good traffic flow. Red Ken has changed all of the London traffic light sequences so that only a few cars can get through per change . Probably one of the most polluting ideas ever thought of.
3. Reasonable priced alternatives such as train fares that dont need a Kings ransome to pay for them
Option 2. Clog up the capital as much as possible to justify charging people for the pleasure (what?) of driving in the town. The fewer the people come in, charge them more, screw it up even more, and maintain the congestion.3. Reasonable priced alternatives such as train fares that dont need a Kings ransome to pay for them
Expect 5'6" width restrictions next, with electronic bollards for smoky stinky TFL red people carrying lorries running on Venezuelan fuel!
Option 3. Personally, I find the charges for pretending to be a sardine not too bad. Where I can, I'll make use of the un-used seats, in the little rooms with 1 on the door, to allow everyone else plenty of space to stand.
Last time I went into town on the train, I caught an early one, and caught the business rush. £38 return Sandy/Kings Cross with Thunderground standing class with people who have a habit of spilling their Costa Coffee everywhere, or £46 to sit in that little room in peace and quiet. What do you think I did.
WOO5IE said:
4. Dont encourage out of towm shopping centres
5. Encourage parents to walk children to school- double benefit here is is that Kids and parents get some exercise
6. Encourage locally grown produce instead of flying it around the world, I can live without green beans in December!
7. Tax relief from working from home 1-2 days per week. 1 day per week saves 20% travelling and commuter emissions.
Totally agree, though option 6 - it's been proved that it's "cleaner" to truck tomatoes from Spain than grown them in heated greenhouses here. Much "cleaner" in terms of CO2 emissions.5. Encourage parents to walk children to school- double benefit here is is that Kids and parents get some exercise
6. Encourage locally grown produce instead of flying it around the world, I can live without green beans in December!
7. Tax relief from working from home 1-2 days per week. 1 day per week saves 20% travelling and commuter emissions.
Option 5 - well, you covered that with School buses.
WOO5IE said:
8. Reduce the rediculous amount of heavy vehicles on our roads, Try the M25 on weekday rush hour and the 2 inside lanes are mostly trucks
These will be the trucks that are transporting the goods that we demand/need to be in our shops. No trucks = no food in your supermarket.The truck drivers are usually seething by the people in their BMW's who join at J19 with the sole intent of joining lane 3 without first achieving warp 1, thus causing a bloody great traffic jam tailing back to J22 at peak times. Close the non-trunk road/motorway intersections between 0600 and 1000hrs in the morning, and the M25 will flow like a dream.
Those same BMW's then cause grief as they slow down to 55mph to take a phonecall without the benefit of any sort of handsfree kit. In fact, it seems that the more expensive the car the less likely they are to make use of any sort of handsfree - another peev of mine! Tightwads.
The there are the rubbish trucks that are taking the c**p out of London to the green and pleasant countryside, so we can make hills out of rubbish, which will rot down, emitting millions of tons of Methane which will cause more damage to the ozone layer than anything else we are capable of!
Luckily switched on rubbish tip people are now tapping that methane and running little power stations off of it. Methane, consequently is a very green fuel, and attracts no duty!(yet)
WOO5IE said:
9. Encourage Conference calls for meeting rather that travel
10. Use Local airports more instead of travelling the main central ones
Absolutely agree. As far as (10) is concerned, then if only the charter airlines used the regional airports more. When looking to go off to parts sunny, I always look for Luton or Stanstead as my chosen departure points, however, it seems that the paraffin budgies that go to the part of the Greek islands I prefer can only land at Gatport Airwick.10. Use Local airports more instead of travelling the main central ones
WOO5IE said:
....Prius...
I shall say no more on that matter. My distaste for the pollution boxes on wheels is immense. While the chimney emits nothing when it's on battery, it spews it out when charging said batteries. And when we talk about the pollution generated in the production of those said batteries, let alone what will be left over when they are spent, it totally outweighs any benefit that running the horrid little boxes will ever appear to have.Don't mention energy saving lightbulbs either. In operation yes, in production & disposal - never!
Turning off the lights at night would be a start.
No 24hr supermarkets,
No sunday opening,
Greater encouragement for people to spend their free time in more community orientated facilities whilst leaving their homes with the lights off and the heating turned down (like they do on Coronation St or Deadenders - spend the day in the pub!)
Then, no "M4 Bus Lane", remove all of the traffic lights in London, install mini-roundabouts - think of the power saving there! - or train PCSO's to do something of use, they can stand in the middle of junctions with their best white gauntlets on directing traffic like the old days!
Next ideas...????
Edited by thunderbelmont on Tuesday 1st January 22:02
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