Some advice if you will!
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I got caught doing an apparent 74mph in a 50mph on the A55 around the Colwyn Bay area, heading to Pwllheli as I do most weekends in the summer.
I decided to contest the fine and 3 points as I didnt feel the way in which the officer recorded my speed was within the law.
The road goes from a 70 - 50 - 70, and I didnt get pulled over again till I i was in the 70. The only info he gave me was I was doing 74 in the 50, which I wasnt as I had a car infront of me doing bang on 50. I know this road is notorious with traffic police so I always slow down for this section of road!
The officer used a Prolaser radar gun, he was travelling alone, and recorded my speed whilst travelling behind me, whilst driving his own vehicle. Yes thats right, he was driving along at 74mph, one handed, whilst pointing this device at my car. Surely this in itself can't be legal?
I have been told you cannot use these devices through windscreens due to the refraction of the radar when it hits the glass. Therefore giving an inacurate reading anyway?
Am I right to be contesting this, or am i going to get shafted anyway.
I have a witness, and he doesn't. But as the witness is my partner, im also worried they wont believe her either.
I dont see how they can just pull you over, show you a radar gun with a random reading on and then say thats 3 points and a 60 quid fine. There is no proof, no evidence, and no witnesses on his behalf!
I would really appreciate some advice as I have just received my court summons through for the 10th Jan and want to get as much info as possible before I attend.
Many many thanks in advance.
Rick
I got caught doing an apparent 74mph in a 50mph on the A55 around the Colwyn Bay area, heading to Pwllheli as I do most weekends in the summer.
I decided to contest the fine and 3 points as I didnt feel the way in which the officer recorded my speed was within the law.
The road goes from a 70 - 50 - 70, and I didnt get pulled over again till I i was in the 70. The only info he gave me was I was doing 74 in the 50, which I wasnt as I had a car infront of me doing bang on 50. I know this road is notorious with traffic police so I always slow down for this section of road!
The officer used a Prolaser radar gun, he was travelling alone, and recorded my speed whilst travelling behind me, whilst driving his own vehicle. Yes thats right, he was driving along at 74mph, one handed, whilst pointing this device at my car. Surely this in itself can't be legal?
I have been told you cannot use these devices through windscreens due to the refraction of the radar when it hits the glass. Therefore giving an inacurate reading anyway?
Am I right to be contesting this, or am i going to get shafted anyway.
I have a witness, and he doesn't. But as the witness is my partner, im also worried they wont believe her either.
I dont see how they can just pull you over, show you a radar gun with a random reading on and then say thats 3 points and a 60 quid fine. There is no proof, no evidence, and no witnesses on his behalf!
I would really appreciate some advice as I have just received my court summons through for the 10th Jan and want to get as much info as possible before I attend.
Many many thanks in advance.
Rick
If you've got that information in writing, i think you have a good case.
You've probably got him on a few of the following:
Title: ACPO Code of Practice for Operational use of Enforcement Equipment
14. Laser/Optical Speedmeters
14.2 Hand-held
Laser or optical hand-held devices may be used from within a vehicle provided there are no radio transmissions during the measurement. Any GSM phones must be turned off and any TETRA radios turned off unless they have a transmission inhibit switch, which is activated.
The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors.
The power source must not be taken directly from any vehicle but always from the type approved independent supply.
You've probably got him on a few of the following:
Title: ACPO Code of Practice for Operational use of Enforcement Equipment
14. Laser/Optical Speedmeters
14.2 Hand-held
Laser or optical hand-held devices may be used from within a vehicle provided there are no radio transmissions during the measurement. Any GSM phones must be turned off and any TETRA radios turned off unless they have a transmission inhibit switch, which is activated.
The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors.
The power source must not be taken directly from any vehicle but always from the type approved independent supply.
Sorry my mistake,
I had just been reading section 20 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 which states
"On the prosecution of a person for any speeding offence, evidence of the measurement of any speed by a device designed or adapted for measuring by radar the speed of motor vehicles shall not be admissible unless the device is of a type approved by the Secretary of State."
Thats the section the officer has referred to in his statement, which only seems to refer to Radar guns. Not laser?
His statement is also incorrect reading word for word...
"I informed the driver of the offence(s) and cautioned him. I told him that the facts would be reported.
"He replied "No".
What the fook is that all about? Why would I just say "NO"? I had a whole conversation about it with him, and this is all he has put on the report!
They just expect you to pay the fine and take the points I think.
I had just been reading section 20 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 which states
"On the prosecution of a person for any speeding offence, evidence of the measurement of any speed by a device designed or adapted for measuring by radar the speed of motor vehicles shall not be admissible unless the device is of a type approved by the Secretary of State."
Thats the section the officer has referred to in his statement, which only seems to refer to Radar guns. Not laser?
His statement is also incorrect reading word for word...
"I informed the driver of the offence(s) and cautioned him. I told him that the facts would be reported.
"He replied "No".
What the fook is that all about? Why would I just say "NO"? I had a whole conversation about it with him, and this is all he has put on the report!
They just expect you to pay the fine and take the points I think.
blueyes said:
If you've got that information in writing, i think you have a good case.
You've probably got him on a few of the following:
Title: ACPO Code of Practice for Operational use of Enforcement Equipment
14. Laser/Optical Speedmeters
14.2 Hand-held
Laser or optical hand-held devices may be used from within a vehicle provided there are no radio transmissions during the measurement. Any GSM phones must be turned off and any TETRA radios turned off unless they have a transmission inhibit switch, which is activated.
The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors.
The power source must not be taken directly from any vehicle but always from the type approved independent supply.
So unless he says he was driving with his arm out of the window at 74mph, the case will be thrown out on this point?You've probably got him on a few of the following:
Title: ACPO Code of Practice for Operational use of Enforcement Equipment
14. Laser/Optical Speedmeters
14.2 Hand-held
Laser or optical hand-held devices may be used from within a vehicle provided there are no radio transmissions during the measurement. Any GSM phones must be turned off and any TETRA radios turned off unless they have a transmission inhibit switch, which is activated.
The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors.
The power source must not be taken directly from any vehicle but always from the type approved independent supply.
Sounds like you need a solicitor. Freeman Keep On Driving should be able to help.
www.freemankeepondriving.com Or there's a couple of other useful sites for your own research not sure of web addresses though. Sure you'll find them by using a search engine.
www.freemankeepondriving.com Or there's a couple of other useful sites for your own research not sure of web addresses though. Sure you'll find them by using a search engine.
Glassman said:
Will you be sticking around after you get (or don't get) the advice you seek?
I take it you get alot of people on here getting the information they require and then are never seen again?I will keep everyone updated on the progress of my case, and hopefully pass on any advice I receive along the way.
Is it best to use this thread for the updates?
Radlam said:
Glassman said:
Will you be sticking around after you get (or don't get) the advice you seek?
I take it you get alot of people on here getting the information they require and then are never seen again?I will keep everyone updated on the progress of my case, and hopefully pass on any advice I receive along the way.
Is it best to use this thread for the updates?
You're here and you're welcome. Try pepipoo.com
This is what he told me. He said he came up behind me and thought I was traveling at a speed in excess of 50mph so he got out his prolaser and zapped me.
I will have a look into the solicitor link, although I was hoping to do this as cheap as possible hence the reason im taking it to court in the first place. I am confident enough to represent myself if I can get enough info before hand, and get a good case together.
Problem is, if he turns round in court and says he was parked up. Its my word against his. So what happens then?
I will have a look into the solicitor link, although I was hoping to do this as cheap as possible hence the reason im taking it to court in the first place. I am confident enough to represent myself if I can get enough info before hand, and get a good case together.
Problem is, if he turns round in court and says he was parked up. Its my word against his. So what happens then?
Radlam said:
This is what he told me. He said he came up behind me and thought I was traveling at a speed in excess of 50mph so he got out his prolaser and zapped me.
I will have a look into the solicitor link, although I was hoping to do this as cheap as possible hence the reason im taking it to court in the first place. I am confident enough to represent myself if I can get enough info before hand, and get a good case together.
Problem is, if he turns round in court and says he was parked up. Its my word against his. So what happens then?
If all his statement said was:I will have a look into the solicitor link, although I was hoping to do this as cheap as possible hence the reason im taking it to court in the first place. I am confident enough to represent myself if I can get enough info before hand, and get a good case together.
Problem is, if he turns round in court and says he was parked up. Its my word against his. So what happens then?
"I informed the driver of the offence(s) and cautioned him. I told him that the facts would be reported.
"He replied "No".
then you won't be able to prove that he was moving... or using a prolaser. You need a good legal chap in court, to lead the bugger on... and then drop him in the shite.
Edited by blueyes on Friday 21st December 18:04
Mg6b said:
were you speeding?
If you were, then plead guilty and save a lot of heartache and cash.
Presumably you'd still like him to plead guilty if there turns out to be a problem with the signage (for example)? In other words it's OK to prosecute people using technicalities, but not to defend using same?If you were, then plead guilty and save a lot of heartache and cash.
TBH I'd say that "advice" was intended for the benefit of the police (and more generally the scammers) rather than the OP, and the OP should regard it as such. The OP has every right morally and legally to explore all the options. If you're not guilty legally, you're not guilty full stop, and no-one should have to plead otherwise.
We're told that speed limits and their enforcement are there for a purpose. Well, so are the rules on signage and all the rest.
(MG6B is a police officer if the OP didn't know, and unlike many officers here is not against the current level of speed enforcement AFAIK.)
Mg6b said:
were you speeding?
If you were, then plead guilty and save a lot of heartache and cash.
If you were not, then try everything you can to get the charge dismissed.
Simple really
Not quite that simple I had a clean licence but took three points and the fine on it because even though I was in the right contesting it would have cost me an estimated £5000 or even if defending myself a day out of work i couldn't afford (ran own business).If you were, then plead guilty and save a lot of heartache and cash.
If you were not, then try everything you can to get the charge dismissed.
Simple really
I was flashed leaving a motorway onto a slip road with roadworks a camera and a 30mph limit. I was flashed at 40mph as I slowed from motorway speed but the camera was so close to the motoway exit I could have only reduced my speed to 30 by slowing down on the motorway before exiting onto the slip. I was being followed immediately behind by an artic to slow to 30 on an inside lane infront of an artic before pulling off would surely have had the potential to cause a huge pile up.
I was told it would take £5000 to defend because technically I had gone through the camera too fast and to argue the yechnical merits of the camera sighting or road layout and speed limits imposed would have needed many experts.
Mg6b said:
were you speeding?
If you were, then plead guilty and save a lot of heartache and cash.
If you were not, then try everything you can to get the charge dismissed.
Simple really
Serious question here Mg..are you saying that the BiB don't have to do things correctly to obtain a "conviction"? Wouldn't that make any guilty result "unsafe"...or are things different for motoring offences?If you were, then plead guilty and save a lot of heartache and cash.
If you were not, then try everything you can to get the charge dismissed.
Simple really
Absolute no no using a handheld or fixed laser from any moving vehicle. Its fairly obvious the speed is measured by calculating the distance moved over time if both vehicles are moving "computer says no" (or will be wildly incorrect.
One has to aim through a site lens first too...
My bet it was'nt a traffic police car but a local noddy thinking he knows better?
One has to aim through a site lens first too...
My bet it was'nt a traffic police car but a local noddy thinking he knows better?
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