Could Head Gasket have gone after a few hours of driving
Discussion
Picked car up from Jude last week after having head gasket changed along with cams installed and head port and skim.
Not driven it much since last week, maybe a couple of hours at most. Got in it to start it this afternoon and it wouldnt crank. Was like there was no power. There did seem a bit of charge in battery but solenoid just seemed to click. Lights came on fine, no lights inside were dim. Eventually it cranked and took a few seconds to start.
When it did start, it belched white smoke out of the back. Let it idle a bit, and the white smoke dissapeared a bit. Went out for a 5 minute drive. Drove ok.
Got home, and white smoke had stopped. I checked in oil filler cap and there were tiny specs of mayo. Wiped cap, replaced it, and started it up again. Let it idle for a minute and took filler cap off. There were like condensation droplet on inside of oil filler cap. Seemed to be lots of steam/ smoke coming out of oil filler hole when cap was off.
Could the difficulty in starting have been down to water in a cylinder which wont compress, then eventually it has burst out the gasket somewhere? Or could the weird smoke and residues be down to the compounds used in rebuild?
Went out in it a second time and more white smoke on start up. When I came to a stop at a junction, was like a big smoke screen behind. This did go away once the car was up to temperature though.
Good end to Christmas!
Not driven it much since last week, maybe a couple of hours at most. Got in it to start it this afternoon and it wouldnt crank. Was like there was no power. There did seem a bit of charge in battery but solenoid just seemed to click. Lights came on fine, no lights inside were dim. Eventually it cranked and took a few seconds to start.
When it did start, it belched white smoke out of the back. Let it idle a bit, and the white smoke dissapeared a bit. Went out for a 5 minute drive. Drove ok.
Got home, and white smoke had stopped. I checked in oil filler cap and there were tiny specs of mayo. Wiped cap, replaced it, and started it up again. Let it idle for a minute and took filler cap off. There were like condensation droplet on inside of oil filler cap. Seemed to be lots of steam/ smoke coming out of oil filler hole when cap was off.
Could the difficulty in starting have been down to water in a cylinder which wont compress, then eventually it has burst out the gasket somewhere? Or could the weird smoke and residues be down to the compounds used in rebuild?
Went out in it a second time and more white smoke on start up. When I came to a stop at a junction, was like a big smoke screen behind. This did go away once the car was up to temperature though.
Good end to Christmas!
Edited by JTBUSH on Friday 28th December 18:09
Sounds very similar to my second HGF. I was paranoid about it happening again and checked oil level and water every trip. Was about to use the car for BTaP and let it run for a while, whilst I gave it a quick wash. There was a lot of steam coming out the back and I checked filler cap, couple of specs of mayo, and a lot of steam coming off the oil.
Did not want to risk HGF on the M25/M1 so sent the car on its way to Sinclairs and used the barge.
No HGF was picked up with the sniff test but when oil was drained there were signs of water, I authorised Sincs to take off the head and they found a small break in the gasket.
So sorry to say it does sound very much like it is, at least your bill will come after Christmas. Mine was in November, and I had to use the money the wife had put aside for a new sofa, she was not happy, and she also did not find it funny when sat in car I turned to her and said "comfortable isn't it?"
she said "what"
I said "the new sofa."
No sense of humour these women.
Did not want to risk HGF on the M25/M1 so sent the car on its way to Sinclairs and used the barge.
No HGF was picked up with the sniff test but when oil was drained there were signs of water, I authorised Sincs to take off the head and they found a small break in the gasket.
So sorry to say it does sound very much like it is, at least your bill will come after Christmas. Mine was in November, and I had to use the money the wife had put aside for a new sofa, she was not happy, and she also did not find it funny when sat in car I turned to her and said "comfortable isn't it?"
she said "what"
I said "the new sofa."
No sense of humour these women.
To be honest, all your symptoms sound like normal behaviour for a car that isn't used much, coupled with deep-seated paranoia resulting from reading too much about HGF on internet forums. 
But if you're worried, get a local garage to confirm it one way or the other by doing a chemical/sniffer test on the coolant. It shouldn't cost you more than about £20.
But if you're worried, get a local garage to confirm it one way or the other by doing a chemical/sniffer test on the coolant. It shouldn't cost you more than about £20.
Sam_68 said:
To be honest, all your symptoms sound like normal behaviour for a car that isn't used much, coupled with deep-seated paranoia resulting from reading too much about HGF on internet forums.
But if you're worried, get a local garage to confirm it one way or the other by doing a chemical/sniffer test on the coolant. It shouldn't cost you more than about £20.
When it isnt Christmas, ie every other day of the year, the car is used daily. Its only not been used from last friday until about wednesday. Car was running fine until yesterday, then all the smoke started billowing out. Tried it again this morning and no smoke. Very very strange! But if you're worried, get a local garage to confirm it one way or the other by doing a chemical/sniffer test on the coolant. It shouldn't cost you more than about £20.
At risk of stating the obvious, you get a lot of steam from the exhaust of a cold engine. The amount will vary with atmospheric conditions (temperature and relative humidity) and the pattern of usage of the car... and how much you are looking for it.
A little bit of mayo on the filler cap wouldn't worry me at this time of year on a car that is used infrequently and/or for short trips. Neither would wisps of steam from the oil filler cap when the engine is running - it will simply be moisture evaporating from the oil.
If the starter problem was due to water in the cylinder, you would have known about it - hydraulic lock will wreck an engine and, if nothing else, it would have been firing on 3 cylinders if there was that much water in one of them. It's simply a lazy battery, again due to lack of use, low temperaturea and possibly less than perfect battery/earth connections. Again, at risk of stating the obvious, if that much water had leaked into a cylinder, there would be none left in your expansion bottle and the car would be overheating!
I'm afraid I find it mildy amusing that every unusual symptom on an Elise seems to immediately result in a diagnosis of HGF ('I've got this strange rattle from my front suspension. Has my head gasket failed!?) I've had a lot of HGF's in my time (ironically, none with a K-series) and starter motor difficulties have never been amongst the symptoms!
...but if you're worried, get it checked. Chemical testing is a far more reliable method of diagnosis than internet forum 'experts'.
A little bit of mayo on the filler cap wouldn't worry me at this time of year on a car that is used infrequently and/or for short trips. Neither would wisps of steam from the oil filler cap when the engine is running - it will simply be moisture evaporating from the oil.
If the starter problem was due to water in the cylinder, you would have known about it - hydraulic lock will wreck an engine and, if nothing else, it would have been firing on 3 cylinders if there was that much water in one of them. It's simply a lazy battery, again due to lack of use, low temperaturea and possibly less than perfect battery/earth connections. Again, at risk of stating the obvious, if that much water had leaked into a cylinder, there would be none left in your expansion bottle and the car would be overheating!
I'm afraid I find it mildy amusing that every unusual symptom on an Elise seems to immediately result in a diagnosis of HGF ('I've got this strange rattle from my front suspension. Has my head gasket failed!?) I've had a lot of HGF's in my time (ironically, none with a K-series) and starter motor difficulties have never been amongst the symptoms!
...but if you're worried, get it checked. Chemical testing is a far more reliable method of diagnosis than internet forum 'experts'.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 29th December 12:09
JTBUSH said:
Picked car up from Jude last week after having head gasket changed along with cams installed and head port and skim.
if you're worried about it going again, take it back to the place that did the gasket and get them to check it over, remember its got a 12 month warranty on it so you shouldn't have to pay.when mine went i didn't realise that any work carried out by a garage carries 12 months warranty, the manager told me to which i was surprised, ok it was a main dealer but i think by law they have to give you this at any garage.
rather like buying any electrical good
Promised Land said:
JTBUSH said:
Picked car up from Jude last week after having head gasket changed along with cams installed and head port and skim.
if you're worried about it going again, take it back to the place that did the gasket and get them to check it over, remember its got a 12 month warranty on it so you shouldn't have to pay.when mine went i didn't realise that any work carried out by a garage carries 12 months warranty, the manager told me to which i was surprised, ok it was a main dealer but i think by law they have to give you this at any garage.
rather like buying any electrical good
Sam_68 said:
At risk of stating the obvious, you get a lot of steam from the exhaust of a cold engine. The amount will vary with atmospheric conditions (temperature and relative humidity) and the pattern of usage of the car... and how much you are looking for it.
A little bit of mayo on the filler cap wouldn't worry me at this time of year on a car that is used infrequently and/or for short trips. Neither would wisps of steam from the oil filler cap when the engine is running - it will simply be moisture evaporating from the oil.
If the starter problem was due to water in the cylinder, you would have known about it - hydraulic lock will wreck an engine and, if nothing else, it would have been firing on 3 cylinders if there was that much water in one of them. It's simply a lazy battery, again due to lack of use, low temperaturea and possibly less than perfect battery/earth connections. Again, at risk of stating the obvious, if that much water had leaked into a cylinder, there would be none left in your expansion bottle and the car would be overheating!
I'm afraid I find it mildy amusing that every unusual symptom on an Elise seems to immediately result in a diagnosis of HGF ('I've got this strange rattle from my front suspension. Has my head gasket failed!?) I've had a lot of HGF's in my time (ironically, none with a K-series) and starter motor difficulties have never been amongst the symptoms!
...but if you're worried, get it checked. Chemical testing is a far more reliable method of diagnosis than internet forum 'experts'.
Im not a motoring hypercondriac. The head gasket has just been done, and I am fully aware of the symptoms of it. The fact there was thick white smoke/ steam coming out of the exhausts which would indicate water getting into the combustion chambers. Being the car had just been in for this work to be done, it did occur to me that something may not have been put back together right, or perhaps the head skim has uncovered some porosity. A little bit of mayo on the filler cap wouldn't worry me at this time of year on a car that is used infrequently and/or for short trips. Neither would wisps of steam from the oil filler cap when the engine is running - it will simply be moisture evaporating from the oil.
If the starter problem was due to water in the cylinder, you would have known about it - hydraulic lock will wreck an engine and, if nothing else, it would have been firing on 3 cylinders if there was that much water in one of them. It's simply a lazy battery, again due to lack of use, low temperaturea and possibly less than perfect battery/earth connections. Again, at risk of stating the obvious, if that much water had leaked into a cylinder, there would be none left in your expansion bottle and the car would be overheating!
I'm afraid I find it mildy amusing that every unusual symptom on an Elise seems to immediately result in a diagnosis of HGF ('I've got this strange rattle from my front suspension. Has my head gasket failed!?) I've had a lot of HGF's in my time (ironically, none with a K-series) and starter motor difficulties have never been amongst the symptoms!
...but if you're worried, get it checked. Chemical testing is a far more reliable method of diagnosis than internet forum 'experts'.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 29th December 12:09
As I said, the car is used daily and gets up to temp daily, and had been used the day before without issue, hence why it hasnt been sat round long enough for any substantial engine moisture to build up!
JTBUSH said:
I'm not a motoring hypercondriac. The head gasket has just been done...
Then I can only repeat, get it tested.It is normal for a cold engine to generate clouds of steam in cold weather.
Unless you can post a video of the car warming up (end perhaps not even then) it is impossible to advise on an internet forum whether you have a problem or not.
A trip to a competent garage will give you a definite answer within minutes.
Sam_68 said:
JTBUSH said:
I'm not a motoring hypercondriac. The head gasket has just been done...
Then I can only repeat, get it tested.It is normal for a cold engine to generate clouds of steam in cold weather.
Unless you can post a video of the car warming up (end perhaps not even then) it is impossible to advise on an internet forum whether you have a problem or not.
A trip to a competent garage will give you a definite answer within minutes.
Any garage should be able to diagnose whether you have problem and there will be plenty open the day after tomorrow.
In the meanwhile, simply keep an eye out for other HGF symptoms - loss of coolant and overheating being the most critical, but also contamination of coolant with oil or contamination of oil with coolant (oil will turn the colour of cappucino coffee). Bubbles in the expansion tank is the other symptom, but it's another favourite for the automotive hypochondriac!
In the meanwhile, simply keep an eye out for other HGF symptoms - loss of coolant and overheating being the most critical, but also contamination of coolant with oil or contamination of oil with coolant (oil will turn the colour of cappucino coffee). Bubbles in the expansion tank is the other symptom, but it's another favourite for the automotive hypochondriac!
Possible it's not HGF - if you are getting smoke on startup whih goes after 30-40 seconds of driving then it may be that the inlet manifold gasket has gone and needs replacing. This can allow coolant to get into one of the cylinders (cylinder 1 or 4 from memory) which can cause hydrolock on startup. Is the car finding it hard to start in the morning?
Get it checked!
Get it checked!
Absolutely certain HG has gone now. Tried getting to Jude Performance this morning but got half way and had to turn round due to snow and A1 being closed. Got home and had a look at engine.
On start up there was loads of white smoke still. When I got home after 15 minutes drive, a lot of coolant had gone. There was mayo in the oil, and water in the oil filler cap, as well as steam coming out of hole for oil filler when I took cap off.
Fingers crossed I will be able to get to Jude tomorrow. Bloody snow!
On start up there was loads of white smoke still. When I got home after 15 minutes drive, a lot of coolant had gone. There was mayo in the oil, and water in the oil filler cap, as well as steam coming out of hole for oil filler when I took cap off.
Fingers crossed I will be able to get to Jude tomorrow. Bloody snow!
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