Heads off help

[caduceus]

I am in the process of taking some of the Cerb engine bay apart, including the manifolds. Which won't come out unless you move engine over. Or, take the heads off for a de-coke, which I was thinking about.
Till I saw uder the rocker covers.


I have only done an OHV Fiesta XR2 engine dec-oke before, which was relatively simple. But just looking at this makes me wonder whether I should just stop now and bolt it all back together. Because it looks daunting.

How hard is it to get the heads back on and set up? I've not taken a cam out before and know dick all about how to shim the tappets either. Assuming you have to redo them when taking the cam & valves out.
And is it safe to assume I need to take that cog that the timing chain is wraped round?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Cad

Edited by caduceus on Sunday 30th December 14:20

[julian64]

To remove the cog go to the other side of the engine and remove the tensioner bolt (half way down the side of the engine). This will allow enough play to remove the camcog and chain.

The four allen head botls then come out of the cog, they should come slowly as they should be loctitied. Dropping these gives you a world of pain).

The cog will then slip off the end of the camshaft without taking the chain off it. Tiewrap the cog to the chain so it can't jump a link, and suspend it keeping a degree of tension on the chain.

I would take the inlets off to give you a bit more room

Then the bolts on the cylinder head. The camshaft and valves should alll come out in one.

Edited by julian64 on Sunday 30th December 17:13

[julian64]

While you are decoking, mark an accurate TDC on the first cylinder on both banks on your engine pulley. You will need it on the way back to set up the camshaft.

[longbow]

STOP!!!!!!!!!!! You can't take the heads off without first removing the front cover, which in turn can't be removed without pulling the engine!!!! There are two hidden head nuts inside the front cover which you need to get to in order to remove the heads. Hope this helps.

Simply unbolt the engine mounts, jack it slightly under the sump and move the engine over a bit - this will allow you to remove the manifolds.

[mikesr]

The nearside manifold on mine came out without moving the engine. The offside was a PITA.
Unbolting the rubber engine mounts and jacking it up didn't give enough movement side to side.
In the end I just supported the sump on the jack, unbolted the nearside plate that the rubber mount is bolted to and the engine was free to move sideways giving plenty of clearance to get the O/S manifold out.

[julian64]

Would what mike is suggesting let you take the front cover off longbow?

[longbow]

I believe someone has done it with the engine in place, but I would have thought it would be a complete PITA. The problem is the crank extension where the aircon pulley is located - you need to get the timing cover past this to remove it and there is very little clearance from it to the chassis.

[caduceus]

Julian, Mike, Windsor, thanks for the replies.

I'm still struggling getting the manifolds out, so havn't got to taking the heads off.
I was full of hope reading Julians first reply. Then after STOP!... I got a bit gutted about it all
I was so looking forward to decoking the heads and reprofiling the inlets. But there is no bloody way I'm taking the engine out

As it stands (on breeze blocks & ax stands)

I guess I'll just stick with getting the manifolds out and welded. Maybe take off the rest of the system and check the joins, etc.

I did look at your restoration pics earlier today Windsor. Very impressive.
Had you done much engine work on cars before you tackled that project?

Cheers again chaps.
Cad

[350Matt]

Blimey!

I would strongly recommend getting the car off the breeze-blocks as soon as possible.

They can suddenly go without warning and you may be under the car, go on treat yourself, halfords axle stands are pretty cheap.

Matt

[Ireland]

That does NOT look safe.

I know we've gone off topic but .....

[longbow]

I agree with Matt - having a car fall on you is something that usually only happens once in a life time, I wouldn't risk it for the sake of some pucca axle stands.

I've done a bit of tinkering with cars before the Cerb, mainly an MR2 turbo which I converted into a track car. I realised pretty quickly into Cerb ownership that I had to maintain it myself and forget all about dealer stamps. In hindsight it was the best thing I could have done. I'm a professional engineer by trade though, so the background knowledge is there to tackle anything mechanical.

If you have a decent size garage, and invest in some tools, and have the time to spare it really is pretty simple stuff. Get yourself the ECU software, the engine rebuild manual and also by extensive use of this forum, you'll do just fine.

Glad I've averted you cracking off those head nuts - could have been emotional!! BTW, engine removal is not that difficult - having just changed the cambelt on my MR2 yesterday I was reminded of just how simple the Cerb is to work on!!

[mikesr]

julian64 said:

Would what mike is suggesting let you take the front cover off longbow?

I think it might give enough clearance to move the front cover forwards enough to get at the head bolts.

Lifting the engine with the mounting plates still bolted to the front of the cam cover would result in them catching the underside of the frame and I suspect lifting the whole front end. If they were taken off then then I think it would be possible to jack the engine up higher - although that would then be putting excessive pressure on the gearbox mount and drive shaft.

Getting the O/S mounting plate off requires the steering UJ to be removed and there is a bracket from the oil pipe that runs under the engine that needs to be carefully bent to allow the bracket to be taken off.

Having now removed air boxes, manifolds, exhaust system, coolant rails, coolant hoses, radiator, aircon compressor, hoses & condenser, steering rack and all the front suspension - including removing all the ball joints - i think the engine and gear box is the only thing left in at the front

With all this experience I reckon I could handle an engine removal. (That is of course assuming I manage to get it put back together in working order )

[ridds]

IMHO if a Fiesta engine is the worst you've done leave this well alone. Bits are not available down the motor factors if things go wrong.

As for the bricks, they look like hefty concrete blocks not lightweight breeze blocks.

However, I'd be more concerned with the left rear that's on it's side! and what looks like the front wheels on top of the end stops of the ramps!!! Very brave man if that's the case.

[julian64]

I expect what your seeing is the axle stands which has been persuaded to lift the wheels above the ramps.

[caduceus]

lol. Thanks for the concern, but the bricks are as actually concrete blocks that weigh about 15-20kg each. And both the rear wheels are on two stacked on top of each other flat. Just the left rear has got another brick on its side behind the two main ones when I moved it out of the way.

The front is on axle stands with ramps under the wheels incase the stands fail.

A picture says a thousand words... just not always accurate ones. lol

Edited by caduceus on Monday 31st December 09:08

[caduceus]

ridds said:

IMHO if a Fiesta engine is the worst you've done leave this well alone. Bits are not available down the motor factors if things go wrong.

Yeah, I tend to agree. Think I will do things bit by bit to the Cerb, and get familiar with it. Then work up the confidence to maybe getting the engine out one day.
For now I'll settle with sorting the manifolds and the rest of the system, cleaning up the water rails, maybe recore the rad, and check all the metal water pipes behind the rad. They seem to be in bad shape.

Who sells all the replacement pipes for the water system? Mine are very rusty.

[Mr Freefall]

caduceus said:

ridds said:

IMHO if a Fiesta engine is the worst you've done leave this well alone. Bits are not available down the motor factors if things go wrong.

Yeah, I tend to agree. Think I will do things bit by bit to the Cerb, and get familiar with it. Then work up the confidence to maybe getting the engine out one day.
For now I'll settle with sorting the manifolds and the rest of the system, cleaning up the water rails, maybe recore the rad, and check all the metal water pipes behind the rad. They seem to be in bad shape.

Who sells all the replacement pipes for the water system? Mine are very rusty.

ACT.

http://www.actproducts.co.uk/

The swan neck pipes are prone to failure. You might want to upgrade to the silcone pipes also. Make sure you bleed the system properly when replacing the coolent, I'm sure someone will post the best way on here, as there tends to be airlocks in the complex AJP system if you just 'refil and go'

Good luck if you get the heads off, they are a bitch to seal on the headgaskets afterwards. If you do ever get this far, make sure you do a compression test on all the bores before you put the engine back in, because if you have a leak anywhere, you will have to take the engine out again.

Paul at Austec does some 'trick' headgaskets, or when I last looked on the TVR Power site ages ago, they had some uprated copper ones, but you will be looking at £300 for the set it think.

I have to say, I would leave the heads on, unless you really really really need to get them off.

Have a good 2008

Mr F

[caduceus]

Mr Freefall said:

Make sure you bleed the system properly when replacing the coolent, I'm sure someone will post the best way on here, as there tends to be airlocks in the complex AJP system if you just 'refil and go'

There is a system by Sealey that Longbow used when he did work on his Cerb. May get one of those.

Mr Freefall said:

Good luck if you get the heads off, they are a bitch to seal on the headgaskets afterwards. Mr F

Nah, I think I'll be leaving them alone for now Plenty more for me to be getting on with

Thanks for the ACT suggestion. Might have a look on Clever Trevor too.
Have a good 2008 yourself too mate

Cad

[TT Tim]

Don't risk concrete blocks, it's kust not worth it, as Windsor has said once a car falls on you once, you never risk it happening again, I have a chipped vertebrae to proove it!

For the sake of less that £20 get yourself down to Machine mart, thay have some 6t axle stands that are excellent: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...

I just need a bigger jack to get the car high enough.;

Here's mine, just before I started the strip down yesterday:



Tim

[mikesr]

TT Tim said:

Don't risk concrete blocks, it's kust not worth it, as Windsor has said once a car falls on you once, you never risk it happening again, I have a chipped vertebrae to proove it!

For the sake of less that £20 get yourself down to Machine mart, thay have some 6t axle stands that are excellent: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...

I just need a bigger jack to get the car high enough.;

Here's mine, just before I started the strip down yesterday:



Tim

Those axle stands are excellent. Mines up on a set at the moment. And if I'm not mistaken I have the same crawler board as well

I got the Machine Mart 2 tonne pro jack. Extremely heavy and a tad too high to get under the front sill without a scissor jack first but very sturdy and lifts to nearly half a metre.