Born Again Bikers

[Riggernut]

More rubbish being printed, The article fails to point out that more people are KSI when involved with car's.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_styl...

[ChampagneCharlie]

More propaganda from the government to be rid of us bikers! I have seen some 'middle aged' bikers struggling with 'big' bikes, but like it says, a 400 can be quick off the mark (baby blade) and as a lot of people are aware low bhp doesn't necessarily lowere top speed. Stop wrapping us in cotton wool and let us get on with life!!

[dern]

Stats are stats.

[ChampagneCharlie]

Yep, you can make them say anything you WANT them to say!

[Rubin215]

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital...

[Hooli]

Rubin215 said:

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital...

very good, never heard it put like that before

[gareth h]

I agree re stats, however it is scary that guys with virtually no bike experience can buy/ride R1/GSXR/1098 etc it doesn't suprise me so many of them 'come a cropper'

[wildone63]

Nothing new about that article,it may annoy 'born again bikers' but i bet its accurate,they have been pushing the accident statistics up for years,lifelong bikers like myself will certainly be partly paying for it through increased insurance rates,insurance companies should slap at least 50% loading on any middle aged biker getting back in the saddle after a gap of 20 years.

[dern]

ChampagneCharlie said:

Yep, you can make them say anything you WANT them to say!

The point I was trying to make is that while the times have written a pretty divisive piece about babs based on stats released by the dot the stats are released by the dot every year and they don't simply make them up and I suspect that they compile them from police reports. So while the sample size may be handily selected to prove the point they had in mind and therefore piece in the times may be a bit shit the suggestion that the government are peddling more propaganda is boocks imo.

[Rubin215]

But how do you know if they haven't been on a bike for ages?
No proof of no claims doesn't always mean lack of experience; my wife rode bikes for nine years in Czech republic but came over here and had to start all over again.

Also, we must lay some of the blame on unscrupulous dealers only interested in a sale.
Last year I sold my Blackbird through a dealer and by chance the guy who bought it was a friend of a work colleague.
Turned out he had only passed a DAS course six months previously and hadn't been on a bike since.
Needless to say he threw the bike up the road in the first month of owning it.
Surely a responsible dealer will have a chat with a punter and suss out what his experience is before selling him a guided missile?

[catso]

Rubin215 said:

Surely a responsible dealer will have a chat with a punter and suss out what his experience is before selling him a guided missile?

But should they refuse to sell it if they 'think' you can't handle it? how do they know? (and should they care?) what your biking/self-control abilities are?

[tim2100]

Rubin215 said:

But how do you know if they haven't been on a bike for ages?
No proof of no claims doesn't always mean lack of experience; my wife rode bikes for nine years in Czech republic but came over here and had to start all over again.

Same for people buying a 2nd bike and having to start a new policy.

[rsv gone!]

dern said:

ChampagneCharlie said:

Yep, you can make them say anything you WANT them to say!

The point I was trying to make is that while the times have written a pretty divisive piece about babs based on stats released by the dot the stats are released by the dot every year and they don't simply make them up and I suspect that they compile them from police reports. So while the sample size may be handily selected to prove the point they had in mind and therefore piece in the times may be a bit shit the suggestion that the government are peddling more propaganda is boocks imo.

No point putting our heads in the sand. It is an uncomfortable fact, but one that needs to be faced.

[aeropilot]

Rubin215 said:

But how do you know if they haven't been on a bike for ages?
No proof of no claims doesn't always mean lack of experience

Not having insurance is though.....insurance co's databases are now linked, so no record of having taken out bike insurance for 10+ years or whatever should set the alarm bells ringing and produce a huge loading....

But does it.....?

Or, say if the insurance co's had a self imposed rule of no bike insurance for say 15+ years, then no insurance until proof of a recognised refresher training has been completed etc...?

Same could be done for bike sale....?

And, on that point, how many people here have actually been asked by a dealer for proof that actually have a m/c license when buying a bike....?

I haven't.....

[Hooli]

aeropilot said:

Rubin215 said:

But how do you know if they haven't been on a bike for ages?
No proof of no claims doesn't always mean lack of experience

Not having insurance is though.....insurance co's databases are now linked, so no record of having taken out bike insurance for 10+ years or whatever should set the alarm bells ringing and produce a huge loading....

But does it.....?

Or, say if the insurance co's had a self imposed rule of no bike insurance for say 15+ years, then no insurance until proof of a recognised refresher training has been completed etc...?

Same could be done for bike sale....?

And, on that point, how many people here have actually been asked by a dealer for proof that actually have a m/c license when buying a bike....?

I haven't.....

i've had to show my licence for any test rides, so they know ive got one when i ended up buying.
its down to people being sensible really, which is probably the problem.

going by your rules i probably wouldnt be allowed on a gsx1400 9months after my DAS. however i've learnt my limits & ride within them, gradually they'll raise so i can use the potential of the bike. i went huge as i dont like reving the nuts off things. yes my old 600 had enough power & speed for me but i didnt like it as much as just cruising about in 6th all the time.

Edited by Hooli on Wednesday 2nd January 10:15

[aeropilot]

Hooli said:

going by your rules i probably wouldnt be allowed on a gsx1400 9months after my DAS. however i've learnt my limits & ride within them, gradually they'll raise so i can use the potential of the bike. i went huge as i dont like reving the nuts off things. yes my old 600 had enough power & speed for me but i didnt like it as much as just cruising about in 6th all the time.

Wasn't setting any rules about engine size....I think that's stupid and typical of politicans that want to make rules that suit their miniscule brain capacity....

For example, my Hardly Rideable has a 1600cc engine with only 70hp and weighs 300kg.....yet is in many ways is an easier bike for a novice to ride than most bikes half it's capacity.

I was merely pointing out that, there are ways via insurance checks to possibly make it less easy for a BAB to just go out and get on a crotch rocket without having been riding for 20+ years or whatever....rather than someone who has done a DAS within a year as you infered?

[Lostusernamedamn]

The throttle works both ways, but it's typical of the current climate in this country for there to be simplistic "lower power = safer" comments.

[Hooli]

aeropilot said:

Hooli said:

going by your rules i probably wouldnt be allowed on a gsx1400 9months after my DAS. however i've learnt my limits & ride within them, gradually they'll raise so i can use the potential of the bike. i went huge as i dont like reving the nuts off things. yes my old 600 had enough power & speed for me but i didnt like it as much as just cruising about in 6th all the time.

Wasn't setting any rules about engine size....I think that's stupid and typical of politicans that want to make rules that suit their miniscule brain capacity....

For example, my Hardly Rideable has a 1600cc engine with only 70hp and weighs 300kg.....yet is in many ways is an easier bike for a novice to ride than most bikes half it's capacity.

I was merely pointing out that, there are ways via insurance checks to possibly make it less easy for a BAB to just go out and get on a crotch rocket without having been riding for 20+ years or whatever....rather than someone who has done a DAS within a year as you infered?

ahh got you now, my poor reading.
doesnt that basicly happen already with the fact bigger/faster/more dangerous bikes cost more to insure? although a lack of recent experience could be an extra loading on insurance. rather like i used to suffer a RWD loading on car insurance (it annoyed me as id run a RWD sportscar as a 2nd car for years before but they didnt allow that).

[trumpet600]

Curious..........do these same statistics tell us what percentage of 'born again' deaths are single vehicle incidents, multiple vehicle incidents, and more to the point...a car drivers fault.......sorry mate, I didn't see you.

As someone pointed out, statistics can say what ever you want them to

[aeropilot]

Hooli said:

although a lack of recent experience could be an extra loading on insurance.

But does it......?

I've only ever been asked the question how long have you had your bike licence, not how long since last had a bike or whatever...?