Dakar cancelled ...
Discussion
kevin ritson said:
It's a shame but a sensible decision in the circumstances.
No this is actually a totally unbelievable decision in the context of a race which has a format that quite deliberately puts its competitors under huge and extreme safety risks as a part of its racing format.For instance the Dakar stages are so long and the skill level of many of the competitors at the back of the field so restricted that competitors are routinely biking through the centre of the desert at 2am and 3am in the morning in the dark and then having to do another day's racing after only 2 or 3 hours sleep or perhaps no sleep at all. Also the Marathon stage is inherently absurdly dangerous and puts riders under huge stresses that may seem them killed due to fatigue and lack of sleep.
The whole point of the Dakar is that it is the ultimate challenge of man and machine against the highest possible level of racing risk and challenge. Any competitor who enters the Dakar knows that the percentage chances of them being killed or seriously injured are very significantly higher than a standard track based motor race. That is part of the thrill and the challenge.
If the situation in Mauritania was like it currently is in Kenya with the whole country in a near state of civil war then I could see the justification for cancelling but instead the number of reported terrorists here is very small and the competitors are usually vastly spread out (except at the overnight camps) making a terrorist hit that could kill large numbers very unlikely. Also I would have thought a competent small mercenary army ought to be able to successfully defend the overnight camps from any likelihood of attack.
To my mind this cancellation is yet another example of modern litigation obsessed business culture triumphing and certain ASO officials and businessman putting the safety of their own non racing backsides ahead of all the effort and commitment the competitors have put in to reach the start of the race.
This kind of advice not to citizens not to travel to a country is the standard kind of BS that all embassies and foreign office departments now frequently give so they are not liable if anything happens. But for it to have been listened to and a decision taken that threatens the whole commercial future of the event by cancelling it is an unbelievable act of misjudgement.
If competitors now know they can spend of thousands of pounds and months of effort only to have the race cancelled at the last moment many of them are just not going to bother entering in future. Also all the competitors accept the risk that they could go out on the first day or two or be killed so are they really not prepared to live with what looks like a fairly terrorist threat? In my view if a vote had been taken amongst the competitors near 100% of them would have voted to continue.
This is an unbelievably bad decision and in my view will lead to the end of this event, at least in its present form in Africa.
Edited by NGMsGhost on Friday 4th January 23:11
Right, so if you were in charge of the event and there was a major international incident that involved the deaths of several competitors and no insurance cover (as is rumoured to have happened), you'd be able to quote all the above to the press, families and friends of those involved, knowing that you'd been tipped off about a direct threat? And fully expect the event to take place next year?
If you can answer yes to the above then I may believe your statement.
If you can answer yes to the above then I may believe your statement.
Edited by kevin ritson on Saturday 5th January 10:33
NGMsGhost said:
kevin ritson said:
It's a shame but a sensible decision in the circumstances.
No this is actually a totally unbelievable decision in the context of a race which has a format that quite deliberately puts its competitors under huge and extreme safety risks as a part of its racing format.For instance the Dakar stages are so long and the skill level of many of the competitors at the back of the field so restricted that competitors are routinely biking through the centre of the desert at 2am and 3am in the morning in the dark and then having to do another day's racing after only 2 or 3 hours sleep or perhaps no sleep at all. Also the Marathon stage is inherently absurdly dangerous and puts riders under huge stresses that may seem them killed due to fatigue and lack of sleep.
The whole point of the Dakar is that it is the ultimate challenge of man and machine against the highest possible level of racing risk and challenge. Any competitor who enters the Dakar knows that the percentage chances of them being killed or seriously injured are very significantly higher than a standard track based motor race. That is part of the thrill and the challenge.
If the situation in Mauritania was like it currently is in Kenya with the whole country in a near state of civil war then I could see the justification for cancelling but instead the number of reported terrorists here is very small and the competitors are usually vastly spread out (except at the overnight camps) making a terrorist hit that could kill large numbers very unlikely. Also I would have thought a competent small mercenary army ought to be able to successfully defend the overnight camps from any likelihood of attack.
To my mind this cancellation is yet another example of modern litigation obsessed business culture triumphing and certain ASO officials and businessman putting the safety of their own non racing backsides ahead of all the effort and commitment the competitors have put in to reach the start of the race.
This kind of advice not to citizens not to travel to a country is the standard kind of BS that all embassies and foreign office departments now frequently give so they are not liable if anything happens. But for it to have been listened to and a decision taken that threatens the whole commercial future of the event by cancelling it is an unbelievable act of misjudgement.
If competitors now know they can spend of thousands of pounds and months of effort only to have the race cancelled at the last moment many of them are just not going to bother entering in future. Also all the competitors accept the risk that they could go out on the first day or two or be killed so are they really not prepared to live with what looks like a fairly terrorist threat? In my view if a vote had been taken amongst the competitors near 100% of them would have voted to continue.
This is an unbelievably bad decision and in my view will lead to the end of this event, at least in its present form in Africa.
Edited by NGMsGhost on Friday 4th January 23:11
You're an Idiot....
So he's not allowed to voice his own opinion without being insulted?
I suspect he's right - most of the teams would have preferred to continue with perhaps a few stages cancelled for safety reasons. It must be heartbreaking for those that live for this race and have invested their whole year and all of their finances only to arrive in Lisbon and have to turn around. It shouldn't have too hard to have a 'Plan B' surely?
I suspect he's right - most of the teams would have preferred to continue with perhaps a few stages cancelled for safety reasons. It must be heartbreaking for those that live for this race and have invested their whole year and all of their finances only to arrive in Lisbon and have to turn around. It shouldn't have too hard to have a 'Plan B' surely?
Edited by AlexHancock on Saturday 5th January 13:46
It would have been an incredibly hard decision to make. My brother was due to start with a private team this year {331 Petersen/Stevenson} but has been in the Dakar for the last 13 years along side drivers like Schlesser, Saby and Alphand.
In some cases they have cancelled stages due to security reasons but in this case its obviously a lot more serious.
I would rather they take this step now than myself taking the tragic phone call early hours one morning that something has happened!!!
In some cases they have cancelled stages due to security reasons but in this case its obviously a lot more serious.
I would rather they take this step now than myself taking the tragic phone call early hours one morning that something has happened!!!
I'm sure that'll be every relatives viewpoint as it would for any dangerous activity but what does your brother think? Here's a link to MCN with one racer's quotes http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresul... He's not saying it's wrong but we all have different thresholds of risk/reward and I would have liked to have seen the final decision left to those actually taking the risk.
stockhatcher said:
its not going to be any better next year, so how about a rethink, and callit the paris to Anadyr rally ( far far east of russia) the russian steppes in winter should mount a different but still imense challenge..
That would be a great way to rethink it. I can't see the situation in Africa improving so that could be a viable solution. I read that one of the Dutch competitors said that the event's insurer had pulled out due to the terrorist threats/murders in Dec 2007. As a result the event organisers didn't have much of a choice. Not sure how much truth in this as ASO (I think they organise it) couldn't organise a wine tasting in a vineyard. One of the British teams were told by Eurosport that the event had been cancelled. ASO didn't even think to tell the competitors what was going on. This is REALLY poor given the expense and sacrifice that the competitors go to.
AlexHancock said:
I'm sure that'll be every relatives viewpoint as it would for any dangerous activity but what does your brother think? Here's a link to MCN with one racer's quotes http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresul... He's not saying it's wrong but we all have different thresholds of risk/reward and I would have liked to have seen the final decision left to those actually taking the risk.
It's not just the racers who have to take the risk though is it - there's the medical teams, race organisers, journalists, logistics teams, sweeper trucks, catering people, support crews, etc., etc., etc. If a lone amateur biker decides to take part then he's reliant on a large number of people to get to Dakar - he doesn't get all his food and petrol and the local Shell and BP stations en route ! And that's assuming he has a trouble free run.That's why the event had to be cancelled and why the comments about why it was a bad decision to cancel the event rankled with me.
I suspect the organisors were put under a fair bit of pressure by the French government so I can understand why its been cancelled.
The main problem is for the smaller teams and privatiers. A lot of sponsorship deals hinge on riders and drivers starting the race, which they won't. I'm sure some companies will want cash back but it will have been spent... Itd going to cost the organisors a lot of cash and really could be the end of the Dakar is it is now. I can't see how threats etc are going to get any better with time...
Pity the rally could'nt have been started with a shout being made in Morocco.
The main problem is for the smaller teams and privatiers. A lot of sponsorship deals hinge on riders and drivers starting the race, which they won't. I'm sure some companies will want cash back but it will have been spent... Itd going to cost the organisors a lot of cash and really could be the end of the Dakar is it is now. I can't see how threats etc are going to get any better with time...
Pity the rally could'nt have been started with a shout being made in Morocco.
Here's another link with some comments from someone hoping to race http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=136... Sorry but I still feel for these guys.
Nick M said:
That's why the event had to be cancelled and why the comments about why it was a bad decision to cancel the event rankled with me.
So you always unquestioningly accept the official propaganda line do you rather than looking at the real facts that underly things. I presume that you believe mass use of speed cameras is also really protecting our safety on the roads and cutting road deaths too then?If we followed your line of thinking then the London tube would be permanently closed down or we would all face an hour long queue to be searched and board each train because of the outside chance that there be a terrorist threat. Have you never realised the first law of responding to terrorist threats is that if you merely cancel the activity they are threatening the terrorists win!
Its clear this happened only because various French civils servants saw motor racing as an unnecessary little hobby and felet their backs were better covered by taking no risk at all. But they failed to see the Dakar is not just a hobby but many people's entire livelihoods and those livelihoods are now destroyed because this one cancellation in a way that caused maximum damage (at the last moment and with no future rescheduled date for running the race) will cause the whole Dakar event to collapse and never happen again.
I do know what I am talking about. I have been on various ASO lists of potentially interested participants and been to two events held by the organisers at the Sport Cafe in London in 2004 and 2005 where I met a number of the UK participants and several of the people who run the firms that prepare cars for privateer entrants. These people now have unused cars for 2008 their customers may not pay for and no prospect at all of orders for cars for any future rally in 2009. What happens to their staff of mechanics. Of course they will be immediately laid off.
Unfortunately someone at the top of the ASO was gutless and incompetent enough that they lacked the confidence to stand up to the French government and also the necessary contacts to find another insurer and go ahead with the event regardless. As a worst case the event should have taken place in say 2 months time from now (before it gets too hot) after there had been time to put in place adequate preventative security measures. Total cancellation is a disaster and heads should roll over this at the ASO, assuming of course that it does not go bust as a result of litigation ensuing from its poor decision. Clearly the major teams do not agree with the ASO but have been threatened with not being allowed to participate again if they do not go along with the official ASO corporate line.
Edited by NGMsGhost on Sunday 6th January 16:20
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