Moving the battery?
Discussion
When TVR designed the Griff, they looked at putting the battery between the chassis rails. It wouldn’t fit, so it ended up in the footwell and ruined the passenger legroom.
Now that was a standard battery. What I want to know is this.
Does anyone have a Griff/Chimp stripped down to the rolling chassis at the moment?
If you do, can you accurately measure the available room?
What I am thinking is would a different shape battery fit?
Some old sports cars used two 6V batteries in series.
Suppose we used two small, slim 12V Varley ‘Red top’ racing batteries in parallel?
Cut the transmission tunnel to provide an access Hatch. Rig mounts to sling them from the chassis rails, one either side of the prop shaft, within the chassis, just in front of the diff cage and behind the hand brake.
Some stuff could be moved like wires and pipes to provide clearance, other stuff like prop shafts, could not.
Alternativly,there are diagonal rails on the top of the chassis, could we go in from the side? Is it do-able?
Now that was a standard battery. What I want to know is this.
Does anyone have a Griff/Chimp stripped down to the rolling chassis at the moment?
If you do, can you accurately measure the available room?
What I am thinking is would a different shape battery fit?
Some old sports cars used two 6V batteries in series.
Suppose we used two small, slim 12V Varley ‘Red top’ racing batteries in parallel?
Cut the transmission tunnel to provide an access Hatch. Rig mounts to sling them from the chassis rails, one either side of the prop shaft, within the chassis, just in front of the diff cage and behind the hand brake.
Some stuff could be moved like wires and pipes to provide clearance, other stuff like prop shafts, could not.
Alternativly,there are diagonal rails on the top of the chassis, could we go in from the side? Is it do-able?
Keeping the battery inside the car is quite a good design feature - it works better when its kept warm. Having the battery on the passenger side is also good for weight distribution (Ferrari put some in the P/S front wing ahead of the wheel BTW). I'm also not sure how you get batteries slim enough to fit either side of the prop shaft, without even considering the implications of insulating the terminals from the chassis.
There may be room to fit smaller ones to the left of the passengers feet - you might have more room there with the Griff heater blower arrangement?
Dave
There may be room to fit smaller ones to the left of the passengers feet - you might have more room there with the Griff heater blower arrangement?
Dave
if you use the red top race batteries, the correct one (RT30?) is the same apporox height/width but only half the depth, they can also supply a box.
you can also move the ecu to the dash area above the glove box. there's enough harness and it actually locks into place without mounts.
this means you gain around 5" of leg room which is substantial. you even have to cut down the area cover plate as the tunnel gets much thinner that far down.
costs a couple of hundred quid to do, but was well worth it.
I now have this problem back again, as all the dry sump system had to go in there.
andy
you can also move the ecu to the dash area above the glove box. there's enough harness and it actually locks into place without mounts.
this means you gain around 5" of leg room which is substantial. you even have to cut down the area cover plate as the tunnel gets much thinner that far down.
costs a couple of hundred quid to do, but was well worth it.
I now have this problem back again, as all the dry sump system had to go in there.
andy
I have been looking at this issue during my engine rebuild and the only alternative to the passenger footwell is the boot (drivers side - assuming you still wish to carry the targa roof!).
I rechecked under the car today re your suggestion and there is no way you will mount suitable batteries anywhere within the subframe. I had planned on two 12 motorcycle batteries in parallel (2 x 360CCA) and mounting them on the petrol tank - they are only 128mm wide and std height. Made a mock-up, but will not fit with the targa roof in place. Now fabricating a cradle for the boot, but still unsure if I want the extra 20kgs on the drivers side!
I rechecked under the car today re your suggestion and there is no way you will mount suitable batteries anywhere within the subframe. I had planned on two 12 motorcycle batteries in parallel (2 x 360CCA) and mounting them on the petrol tank - they are only 128mm wide and std height. Made a mock-up, but will not fit with the targa roof in place. Now fabricating a cradle for the boot, but still unsure if I want the extra 20kgs on the drivers side!
Not having seen a Griff with its chassis off, only the photo’s I’m not sure how much room there is.
Red top are available in a variety of sizes. The battery I was thinking of was the 25.
Varley Red Top 25 High Performance Racing Battery. Can be fitted upright or on their side. Red Top 25 is rated at 12 volts, 16 amp hour. Has M6 female terminals, weighs 6.1 Kg and measures 182mm x 77mm x 168mm. Cranking current 680A.
Now if the clearance between the propshaft and the chassis rails is enough to allow the 77mm to slide in, we may be able to do this.
The power output doesn’t come up to that of the RT30, but it’s 20mm thinner. If a pair was fitted, one each side then it should give the power.
The cars centre of gravity may be shifted a little to the rear, but closer to the centre line. But it’s not as bad as sticking it in the boot.
I think keeping the battery cool with the exhaust run might be more of an issue, but I take your point.
I think it would have to be fitted from underneath. Fitting a new battery to the footwell isn’t an easy job. Putting the car up on ramps to do a battery change wouldn’t be much more time consuming.
The battery would have to slide up into the battery box. Then the floor of the battery box bolted on to support it.
A hatch from inside the car to access the terminals would be good.
I didn’t think I would gain as much as 5” from just going RT in the footwell. My ECU is being replaced at the moment and its being put in higher.
For me, with no immediate need for dry sump in my case, the RT in the footwell looks the easy option. Pity I had a new battery this year.
How long did it take to fit in the footwell?
Red top sizes
15 200mm x 77mm x 140mm
20 176mm x 84mm x 130mm
25 182mm x 77mm x 168mm
30 250mm x 97mm x 152mm
40 250mm x 97mm x 204mm
60 250mm x 97mm x 204mm
Red top are available in a variety of sizes. The battery I was thinking of was the 25.
Varley Red Top 25 High Performance Racing Battery. Can be fitted upright or on their side. Red Top 25 is rated at 12 volts, 16 amp hour. Has M6 female terminals, weighs 6.1 Kg and measures 182mm x 77mm x 168mm. Cranking current 680A.
Now if the clearance between the propshaft and the chassis rails is enough to allow the 77mm to slide in, we may be able to do this.
The power output doesn’t come up to that of the RT30, but it’s 20mm thinner. If a pair was fitted, one each side then it should give the power.
The cars centre of gravity may be shifted a little to the rear, but closer to the centre line. But it’s not as bad as sticking it in the boot.
I think keeping the battery cool with the exhaust run might be more of an issue, but I take your point.
I think it would have to be fitted from underneath. Fitting a new battery to the footwell isn’t an easy job. Putting the car up on ramps to do a battery change wouldn’t be much more time consuming.
The battery would have to slide up into the battery box. Then the floor of the battery box bolted on to support it.
A hatch from inside the car to access the terminals would be good.
I didn’t think I would gain as much as 5” from just going RT in the footwell. My ECU is being replaced at the moment and its being put in higher.
For me, with no immediate need for dry sump in my case, the RT in the footwell looks the easy option. Pity I had a new battery this year.
How long did it take to fit in the footwell?
Red top sizes
15 200mm x 77mm x 140mm
20 176mm x 84mm x 130mm
25 182mm x 77mm x 168mm
30 250mm x 97mm x 152mm
40 250mm x 97mm x 204mm
60 250mm x 97mm x 204mm
I've looked into this a lot previously,and i've come to the conclusion that i'll only be happy fitting one in the boot,as Per did(see griff pages).Red tops and Odysey batteries are great for race cars,but if you want the A/hrs needed for being able to leave these cars without a battery maintainer etc,like on hollidays touring for example,then you will need 3 of the smaller ones like the red top 25!I did think of two red top 30's behind the seats,but it would be difficult to do neatly i think.
Guillotine said:
if you use the red top race batteries, the correct one (RT30?) is the same apporox height/width but only half the depth, they can also supply a box.
you can also move the ecu to the dash area above the glove box. there's enough harness and it actually locks into place without mounts.
this means you gain around 5" of leg room which is substantial. you even have to cut down the area cover plate as the tunnel gets much thinner that far down.
costs a couple of hundred quid to do, but was well worth it.
I now have this problem back again, as all the dry sump system had to go in there.
andy
Andy, do you have any problems with the battery going flat over time using the RT30?you can also move the ecu to the dash area above the glove box. there's enough harness and it actually locks into place without mounts.
this means you gain around 5" of leg room which is substantial. you even have to cut down the area cover plate as the tunnel gets much thinner that far down.
costs a couple of hundred quid to do, but was well worth it.
I now have this problem back again, as all the dry sump system had to go in there.
andy
I have a battery conditioner fitted in the boot. It was there when I bought the car. Unfortunatly, there is no electrical supply to my garage. Yesterday I bought a solar panel battery conditioner to go on the garage roof. It is rated as 1.5W@17V. Will that cope if I fit the RT30?
V8D are putting in my Emerald so that area of the car is in bits at the moment. I am having a full custom Emerald engine loom as well. So I have emailed them to ask their opinion and how much.
There is a software upgrade coming that will allow the ECU engine control of the fans to include fans running on after the ignition is switched off. This will need some relays to keep the ECU live for a time. I have had the custom loom built with those relays included already.
Will the RT30 cope with having had fans running after engine switch off with the solar panel top up?
hi Mike,
I've had the RT30 in for 3 years now, its very close to the AH from memory and it turns my Hi comp race engine no probs (12.5:1)
yes, I have it permanently on accumate (no probs for me as I sell them
) but it had been left for many days without charging and it had no probs.
Same as with std batteries.
must remember tho, RT Gel batteries cannot go flat...or they're finished!
yes, you can mount them anyways up.
I've had the RT30 in for 3 years now, its very close to the AH from memory and it turns my Hi comp race engine no probs (12.5:1)
yes, I have it permanently on accumate (no probs for me as I sell them
) but it had been left for many days without charging and it had no probs.Same as with std batteries.
must remember tho, RT Gel batteries cannot go flat...or they're finished!
yes, you can mount them anyways up.
Uncle Fester said:
STUFF
Hi UFthis is quite a strong battery (as just posted) and will keep your fans going for a while. A std battery will only last 20mins in anycase, and the GEL less, so watch your timing.
heatsoak is an issue, but lifting the bonnet helps on heavy use. fan periods of 2-3 mins would be fine, but be careful. heatsoak lasts for a long time on a V8!
as for the charger, RT only recomend their own, but as i said, a conditioner (not charger) is fine. its all about charging/recovery rates, so a conditioner reacts to the batteries state and charges accordingly. Mines still fine after 3 years.
smaller battery (1/2 size) is easier to move in the car (and lighter = 1/2 weight) so its definately worth considering.
Mine's still a road car too!
andy
To RT or not to RT, that is the question.
Right, I have problems with passenger legroom. My sons are both about 6’ 5”.
They are cramped, uncomfortable and their knees have broken 3 glove box catches in the last year.
Boot space is at a premium, so I don’t want to put the battery in the boot, although it is tempting to put the sons in there.
I don’t want a Chimp.
The garage has no power except a solar charger. Would this provide enough power to run the alarm and avoid the drain?
How long would the RT battery life be? If I got, say two or three years I could live with that, if I get a regular source of breakdowns, then no.
What is my best solution to give more legroom?
Right, I have problems with passenger legroom. My sons are both about 6’ 5”.
They are cramped, uncomfortable and their knees have broken 3 glove box catches in the last year.
Boot space is at a premium, so I don’t want to put the battery in the boot, although it is tempting to put the sons in there.
I don’t want a Chimp.
The garage has no power except a solar charger. Would this provide enough power to run the alarm and avoid the drain?
How long would the RT battery life be? If I got, say two or three years I could live with that, if I get a regular source of breakdowns, then no.
What is my best solution to give more legroom?
Guillotine said:
shpub said:
The RT batteries do not like being left on with a small current. This will kill them almost as quickly as letting them go flat. Causes a bit of a problem with an alarm...
not on mine steve, accumate - 3 years - alarmed. Battery is still 100%
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