Police advice re: assault
Discussion
I wonder if any of the serving officers here could give me an insight into what might happen here...?
A few weeks ago, in our little town, a friend of mine got into a scuffle with a local woman (who's known to the local police as a trouble maker)and her bloke. Basically she was asked to leave a pub, one sh'es already barred from, and when outside she went for my mate. He went to defend himself, and her bloke jumped in. My friend landed a couple of blows on her bloke, and at the same time his crazy missus was throwing bottles all over the place, covering everything with glass.
Two Police cars arrive after the landlady called the police, during which time the mad woman and her bloke are moved on and everything dies down.
Next day, the police get in touch saying this bloke has a cut head and has put a complaint in against my friend, claiming assault. The officers involved assure us that they know it's a load of rubbish and want it off their books ASAP.
Today my friend was invited to the station, duly arrested for ABH and interviewed formally. Stupidly he declined a solicitor as he didn't want to spend time in the cells.
Does this sound like the Police just going through the motions before trying to get the case disappeared, or is this one heading straight for the CPS and court?
I know you can't give absolute answers, but what are your feelings?
A few weeks ago, in our little town, a friend of mine got into a scuffle with a local woman (who's known to the local police as a trouble maker)and her bloke. Basically she was asked to leave a pub, one sh'es already barred from, and when outside she went for my mate. He went to defend himself, and her bloke jumped in. My friend landed a couple of blows on her bloke, and at the same time his crazy missus was throwing bottles all over the place, covering everything with glass.
Two Police cars arrive after the landlady called the police, during which time the mad woman and her bloke are moved on and everything dies down.
Next day, the police get in touch saying this bloke has a cut head and has put a complaint in against my friend, claiming assault. The officers involved assure us that they know it's a load of rubbish and want it off their books ASAP.
Today my friend was invited to the station, duly arrested for ABH and interviewed formally. Stupidly he declined a solicitor as he didn't want to spend time in the cells.
Does this sound like the Police just going through the motions before trying to get the case disappeared, or is this one heading straight for the CPS and court?
I know you can't give absolute answers, but what are your feelings?
From a target perspective, they can turn this into two or possibly three 'detected' offences. From that same perspective, they don't care about whatever the rights and wrongs are. It's possible that the BiB on the ground felt one way about the initial incident, but that higher up (and when, possibly, your mate's previous came to light) that a decision has been made to charge. They've got a report, they need a clear-up. Your mate fits the bill (some sort of pun intended 
) - Streaky
) - StreakyYour friend is now a detected crime.
Its modern policing.
I refused to accept a charge since they had video evidence and kept trying to charge me without even looking at the video which i knew would clear me.
My charges were dropped when the video 'mysteriously dissapeared' from police custody when I asked for a copy to use as evidence against the other party.
They deal with so many drunken friday night idiots that they don't realise what impact charging someone with no previous amounts to. It is totally irrelevant to them but can be verserious for the recipient if ever wishing to work with children or in the care industry or even if they wish to holiday or move abroad.
I went to the IPCC and got an apology 'of sorts' from the Inspector involved.
Its the Inspectors I'm afraid they have to produce figures regardless of public interest, perception and common sense.
Its modern policing.
I refused to accept a charge since they had video evidence and kept trying to charge me without even looking at the video which i knew would clear me.
My charges were dropped when the video 'mysteriously dissapeared' from police custody when I asked for a copy to use as evidence against the other party.
They deal with so many drunken friday night idiots that they don't realise what impact charging someone with no previous amounts to. It is totally irrelevant to them but can be verserious for the recipient if ever wishing to work with children or in the care industry or even if they wish to holiday or move abroad.
I went to the IPCC and got an apology 'of sorts' from the Inspector involved.
Its the Inspectors I'm afraid they have to produce figures regardless of public interest, perception and common sense.
Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 7th January 16:46
I'm not sure he's been charged yet, I'll find out later.
I'm perplexed, as the officer dealing and others have informally told us that he wants to get rid and knows what a PITA this woman and her fellow are.
It's a hard one for my friend. There was only one witness to the kerfuffle itself, I was in the pub and saw the build up and the aftermath with this woman going crazy.
On the face of it, the prosecution looks quite strong if there are no credible witnesses. A man sees another man fighting with his woman, he goes to intervene and gets battered for it. My friend gets a criminal record for a serious offence.
On the other side, a woman walks into a bar knowing she's barred, and kicks off at my friend as he tries to help by asking her to leave the premises (the pub is owned by his sister). The woman then goes physically mental at him, which she has previous form for with other people, and whilst defending himself from her he's set upon by her bloke and has to defend himself from him, too.
I'm rather worried that magistrates will take more sympathy with the 'damaged' party who on the face of it was defending his missus, when the truth is far different.
I'm perplexed, as the officer dealing and others have informally told us that he wants to get rid and knows what a PITA this woman and her fellow are.
It's a hard one for my friend. There was only one witness to the kerfuffle itself, I was in the pub and saw the build up and the aftermath with this woman going crazy.
On the face of it, the prosecution looks quite strong if there are no credible witnesses. A man sees another man fighting with his woman, he goes to intervene and gets battered for it. My friend gets a criminal record for a serious offence.
On the other side, a woman walks into a bar knowing she's barred, and kicks off at my friend as he tries to help by asking her to leave the premises (the pub is owned by his sister). The woman then goes physically mental at him, which she has previous form for with other people, and whilst defending himself from her he's set upon by her bloke and has to defend himself from him, too.
I'm rather worried that magistrates will take more sympathy with the 'damaged' party who on the face of it was defending his missus, when the truth is far different.
10 Pence Short said:
I'm not sure he's been charged yet, I'll find out later.
At a very uneducated guess - charged, bailed (if further info necessary), re-attends, arrested, cautioned - on your way (do not collect £200, do not emigrate to the US / Canada / Oz).Could be wrong though - hopefully he will have convinced the officers in question of the self-defence aspect.
Depends what hes said in interview really.
Sounds like self defense to me and i would bin it as such.
Even though there are targets, alot of us like to do the right thing and to be honest, dont want to waste time investigating rubbish jobs.
Unless he said i lost me rag and hit him several times i would say he was in the clear. That is of course if there are no witness's against his story.
Dont listen to the doom and gloom merchants here. The police do have a certain amount of discression and there are some good custody skippers out there who make the right decisions as well as shift skippers. Although it's getting harder these days.
ETA:
Sorry, i would predict if hes made partial admissions with a defense of self defense then he is bailed pending further statements (from landlady etc) and any cctv, then cps advice which i would say would go in his favour.
Sounds like self defense to me and i would bin it as such.
Even though there are targets, alot of us like to do the right thing and to be honest, dont want to waste time investigating rubbish jobs.
Unless he said i lost me rag and hit him several times i would say he was in the clear. That is of course if there are no witness's against his story.
Dont listen to the doom and gloom merchants here. The police do have a certain amount of discression and there are some good custody skippers out there who make the right decisions as well as shift skippers. Although it's getting harder these days.
ETA:
Sorry, i would predict if hes made partial admissions with a defense of self defense then he is bailed pending further statements (from landlady etc) and any cctv, then cps advice which i would say would go in his favour.
Edited by ^Slider^ on Monday 7th January 16:57
Aside from each other, the complainant has no witnesses, and even if they did, no one would want to help them. My friend has one witness, someone he knows unfortunately and quite a few of us who witnesses the events before and immediately after pertaining to her aggressive behaviour.
The Police have advised my friend to find some witnesses, which lends me to the notion that they want to be satisfied it wasn't really an assault by him and bin it.
The Police have advised my friend to find some witnesses, which lends me to the notion that they want to be satisfied it wasn't really an assault by him and bin it.
Having looked at the CPS charging practice for assault and ABH, I'd say the CPS would be unlikely follow up an ABH prosecution. The only injury of any note suffered by the complainant is a slight cut to the head (which didn't require any medical treatment). How he got this injury is in dispute, too.
Sounds to me like the local bobbies are trying to line my friend up for a caution for assault, by scaring him with an ABH arrest.
Might be wrong, though!
Sounds to me like the local bobbies are trying to line my friend up for a caution for assault, by scaring him with an ABH arrest.
Might be wrong, though!
10 Pence Short said:
Having looked at the CPS charging practice for assault and ABH, I'd say the CPS would be unlikely follow up an ABH prosecution. The only injury of any note suffered by the complainant is a slight cut to the head (which didn't require any medical treatment). How he got this injury is in dispute, too.
Sounds to me like the local bobbies are trying to line my friend up for a caution for assault, by scaring him with an ABH arrest.
Might be wrong, though!
Indeed.Sounds to me like the local bobbies are trying to line my friend up for a caution for assault, by scaring him with an ABH arrest.
Might be wrong, though!
The CPS will see a scuffle outside a pub, not many witnesses if any, six of one, half a dozen of another, one slight injury. The complainant and their partner also have 'previous' for the same and have been barred from the pub.
In court your friend solicitor would point this out and your friend will plead his innocence.
Almost zero chance of a conviction. The CPS have better things to do like chase speeders!
As others have said - policing by the modern 'book' - they have to go through the motions.
10 Pence Short said:
My friend landed a couple of blows on her bloke,
Perhaps they need his details to put him forward for one of those community service award things. We need a few more of his type to start issuing out on-the-spot justice to keep a lid on these agressive thugs that are ruining our lives.Well at least we need them until the government starts allowing the police to do it again.
SM
Tell him to tell them he'll turn it into a not-guilty Crown Court job on the grounds of self-defence and reasonable force (assuming they'll stick with the ABH - which I doubt). Also that he'll counter complaint against them both. The officer will know they'll need to consult CPS, have a day in Court, take the counter-complaints etc etc.
If he makes it obvious that filing it 'insufficient evidence' is by far the most time efficient way to deal with it I'd suggest it'll go that way.
If he makes it obvious that filing it 'insufficient evidence' is by far the most time efficient way to deal with it I'd suggest it'll go that way.
FishFace said:
Tell him to tell them he'll turn it into a not-guilty Crown Court job on the grounds of self-defence and reasonable force (assuming they'll stick with the ABH - which I doubt). Also that he'll counter complaint against them both. The officer will know they'll need to consult CPS, have a day in Court, take the counter-complaints etc etc.
If he makes it obvious that filing it 'insufficient evidence' is by far the most time efficient way to deal with it I'd suggest it'll go that way.
Which is precisely my way of thinking. Unfortunately my friend isn't great at dealing with these things and tends to bottle out, hence the refusal to wait for a duty solicitor for the recorded interview!If he makes it obvious that filing it 'insufficient evidence' is by far the most time efficient way to deal with it I'd suggest it'll go that way.
Andy Zarse said:
For God sake tell him NOT to accept a police caution. It's a straightforward admittance of guilt; it's not a "convenience" whatever the police might say.
Do not become another so-called "detected violent crime" staistic.
Been through that one with him. He's willing to go to court, not that I think it'll get that far.Do not become another so-called "detected violent crime" staistic.
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