Police view on cutting corners/junctions
Discussion
Using racing lines on bends can cause you difficulty, especially on the exit line where you should be starting to accelerate, the pitch and roll will naturally take the car negotiating a right hand bend into the danger area of kerbs, verges, unstable road surfaces with grit of other debris, roadside furniture, trees, hedges, raised or sunken iron works, parked vehicles, walls, etc etc. On a left hand bend a racing line will take the vehicle out into the oncoming traffic if the driver has misread or gone into the bend too quickly.
Problems of lift off oversteer arise in the latter part of the bend if the natural line that the car starts to take is taking it into the danger areas and the driver bottles out or goes for the brake.
Straightening out bends is acceptable as long as it is safe to do so and does not inconvenience or endanger others. Basically, the whole road must be visible and other hazards around the area taken into consideration prior to entering the line that will take you into an area of potential conflict.
Straight lines are the safe ones.
Problems of lift off oversteer arise in the latter part of the bend if the natural line that the car starts to take is taking it into the danger areas and the driver bottles out or goes for the brake.
Straightening out bends is acceptable as long as it is safe to do so and does not inconvenience or endanger others. Basically, the whole road must be visible and other hazards around the area taken into consideration prior to entering the line that will take you into an area of potential conflict.
Straight lines are the safe ones.
You're on the wrong side of the road as you enter the right turn - Fine as long as you have a good view of traffic approaching the T junction.
OK, but I would only cross the centre libe by about a foor here TBH.
Not good. You've limited your view of the road ahead significantly here. You can't see what's coming in the other direction. You should turn later in the bend here once you have a good view ahead IMO.
Although by positioning yourself to the right which gives you a better view, you're exposing yourself to cars potentially cutting the corner coming the other way! A recipe for disaster.
Edited by tfm on Wednesday 9th January 22:13
tfm said:
You're on the wrong side of the road as you enter the right turn - Fine as long as you have a good view of traffic approaching the T junction.
OK, but I would only cross the centre libe by about a foor here TBH.
Not good. You've limited your view of the road ahead significantly here. You can't see what's coming in the other direction. You should turn later in the bend here once you have a good view ahead IMO.
Although by positioning yourself to the right which gives you a better view, you're exposing yourself to cars potentially cutting the corner coming the other way! A recipe for disaster.
That's the Roadcraft line... If you execute it correctly you should never be unsighted on the entry.time2react said:
Rememeber, when positioning yourself on a road, you should obtain the greatest view of the road ahead with carefull regard for safety.
At no point should you ever sacrifice safety for any other advantage.
Where in his examples is safety sacrificed, if the vision is such that it can clearly be seen to be safe ?At no point should you ever sacrifice safety for any other advantage.
He's not saying he'd do it where there wasn't sufficient vision, he said only where there was.
Fine if its a completely clear view
Fine if its a completely clear view
Fine if its a completely clear view ONLY otherwise stay left until your visibilty starts increasing (limit points)
Moving from left to right in such a defined fashion to be on the offside of the bend for visibilty is not good, if using this type of line you want a much mor refined entry line. A this keeps the car nicely balanced, B you not starting out from a poor visibilty point, C if something comes the other way before visibilty becomes good your not already pointing outwards. Far better to be in the centre line of the road much before the left hander.
Edited by cptsideways on Wednesday 9th January 23:15
vonhosen said:
time2react said:
Rememeber, when positioning yourself on a road, you should obtain the greatest view of the road ahead with carefull regard for safety.
At no point should you ever sacrifice safety for any other advantage.
Where in his examples is safety sacrificed, if the vision is such that it can clearly be seen to be safe ?At no point should you ever sacrifice safety for any other advantage.
He's not saying he'd do it where there wasn't sufficient vision, he said only where there was.
Before you ask it happened to a friend of mine many years ago in Culcheth and he got booked for it. About 2 years ago on the same stretch of road at 2am midweek I spotted a car catching me up, It was a 40mph zone and this car gained about 400 yards in less than a mile so not wanting to take any chances I made sure I didn't run a tyre over or even on the white line but I still got pulled and the young copper said "you where a bit close to that continuous white line back there weren't you?,I felt like telling him to F off but that would'nt be playing the game would it.
Then they wonder why MOP "often" think badly of the police.
Edited by Yung Man on Thursday 10th January 03:33
Driving on the wrong side of the road under any circumstances other than to avoid an obstacle such as a stationary vehicle, is contrary to the highway code.
Any police observing the driving of a vehicle in such a manner as described in the diagrams would be justified in charging the driver with undue car and attention and or dangerous driving, and you would probably be breathalysed as a matter of course.
Whilst we all may do it at some time or another you are laying yourself open to getting nicked.
Any police observing the driving of a vehicle in such a manner as described in the diagrams would be justified in charging the driver with undue car and attention and or dangerous driving, and you would probably be breathalysed as a matter of course.
Whilst we all may do it at some time or another you are laying yourself open to getting nicked.
Yung Man said:
vonhosen said:
time2react said:
Rememeber, when positioning yourself on a road, you should obtain the greatest view of the road ahead with carefull regard for safety.
At no point should you ever sacrifice safety for any other advantage.
Where in his examples is safety sacrificed, if the vision is such that it can clearly be seen to be safe ?At no point should you ever sacrifice safety for any other advantage.
He's not saying he'd do it where there wasn't sufficient vision, he said only where there was.
Before you ask it happened to a friend of mine many years ago in Culcheth and he got booked for it. About 2 years ago on the same stretch of road at 2am midweek I spotted a car catching me up, It was a 40mph zone and this car gained about 400 yards in less than a mile so not wanting to take any chances I made sure I didn't run a tyre over or even on the white line but I still got pulled and the young copper said "you where a bit close to that continuous white line back there weren't you?,I felt like telling him to F off but that would'nt be playing the game would it.
Then they wonder why MOP "often" think badly of the police.
Edited by Yung Man on Thursday 10th January 03:33
If you break the law then you can expect that they might take action, but just because you use the road surface available legally, safely & appropriately, why should they worry ?
There may be other reasons to stop you, but not because you apexed where it was legal & safe to do so.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 10th January 06:51
thought that the 4th example of straddling the centre line for a left hand bend was the practiced way when driving at high speed as adopted by the police?. I'm not plod however, so what do I know.
while in 'what do I know' mode, I remember it being stated that it isn't actually illegal to drive on the wrong side of the road.
while in 'what do I know' mode, I remember it being stated that it isn't actually illegal to drive on the wrong side of the road.
SLCZ3 said:
Driving on the wrong side of the road under any circumstances other than to avoid an obstacle such as a stationary vehicle, is contrary to the highway code.
Can you point me to the bit in the highway code that states that?All I can find is from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Hig...
160
Once moving you should
* keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road
my bold - so this is advisory not legally required (else it would say must/must not IIRC) - now if the lines were solid then yes that would be illegal - but in the OPs case this is not the case, so it is perfectly legal, as von has pointed out.
edited to add:
here are the definitions used in Highway Code to define what is covered by law:
Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’.
from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Hig...
FG
Edited by FunkyGibbon on Thursday 10th January 08:59
SLCZ3 said:
Driving on the wrong side of the road under any circumstances other than to avoid an obstacle such as a stationary vehicle, is contrary to the highway code.
Any police observing the driving of a vehicle in such a manner as described in the diagrams would be justified in charging the driver with undue car and attention and or dangerous driving, and you would probably be breathalysed as a matter of course.
Whilst we all may do it at some time or another you are laying yourself open to getting nicked.
Utter dross!Any police observing the driving of a vehicle in such a manner as described in the diagrams would be justified in charging the driver with undue car and attention and or dangerous driving, and you would probably be breathalysed as a matter of course.
Whilst we all may do it at some time or another you are laying yourself open to getting nicked.
When I did my advanced motorcycling (admittedly twenty years ago) the police officer teaching us pointed out that it was precisely that, just a bit of white paint. We were actually marked down for not making full use of the whole width of the road
We even had to sit on a cold verge and listen to vehicles clipping the cats eyes on the exit on left handers to reinforce the point. Enter wide, exit tight.
Why is it that whenever someone asks a perfectly straightforward question, complete with diagrams and full explanation of scenario, do people here insist on adding their own twists, changes and buts just so that they can disagree or say it's wrong.
FFS!... the situations were explained pretty clearly and the first answer, from Von, was all that was required. If it's safe and appropriate then what's the problem. The broken lines down the centre of the road are there to give the driver information. They are not some sort of invisible boundary that thou shalt not cross. Solid lines are different but they are irrelevant in these cases.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother on any of the "Advanced" driving forums. With few exceptions they only ever seem to be populated with people who want to argue and prove that they are in some way better or holier than thou.
Go figure.
FFS!... the situations were explained pretty clearly and the first answer, from Von, was all that was required. If it's safe and appropriate then what's the problem. The broken lines down the centre of the road are there to give the driver information. They are not some sort of invisible boundary that thou shalt not cross. Solid lines are different but they are irrelevant in these cases.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother on any of the "Advanced" driving forums. With few exceptions they only ever seem to be populated with people who want to argue and prove that they are in some way better or holier than thou.
Go figure.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Thursday 10th January 09:22
I think because it's
A. fun,
B. only semi serious. For example, Von's image is of a very clever chap who's something to so with the police, HOWEVER, he may actually be a 13 year old girl who watches police camera action a lot. Or he may be a canadian mounty, or a bored english teacher, or anything!, As we all could.
Anything written is therefore taken on trust, with no proof to suggest anything has any substance or not.
A. fun,
B. only semi serious. For example, Von's image is of a very clever chap who's something to so with the police, HOWEVER, he may actually be a 13 year old girl who watches police camera action a lot. Or he may be a canadian mounty, or a bored english teacher, or anything!, As we all could.
Anything written is therefore taken on trust, with no proof to suggest anything has any substance or not.
Strangely Brown said:
Sometimes I wonder why I bother on any of the "Advanced" driving forums. With few exceptions they only ever seem to be populated with people who want to argue and prove that they are in some way better or holier than thou.
Go figure.
from my earlier post above Go figure.
quote said:
Straightening out bends is acceptable as long as it is safe to do so and does not inconvenience or endanger others. Basically, the whole road must be visible and other hazards around the area taken into consideration prior to entering the line that will take you into an area of potential conflict.
Straight lines are the safe ones.
Straight lines are the safe ones.
Edited by Mg6b on Thursday 10th January 09:58
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