MIDAS Bronze Restyling

[fuoriserie]

After input by MIDAS, on the Kitcar design thread, I thought about doing a restyling job on the old Midas Bronze Coupe.

The car has always been one of my favourite small coupes, but after 20yrs, it needs a styling and engine update, what do you guys think ?

Is there still a niche for such small coupes in today kitcar market?, what engines do you see in the new Bronze ?, Ford fiesta ?, Peugeot ? Rover ? Honda? Toyota? VW or what.......

Your comments are really appreciated
Thanks

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 14th January 16:23

[Furyblade_Lee]

A minature Exige. Do it!

[Midas]

We're sticking with a front engine.

Stuart (no connection to the current Midas manufacturer)

Edited by Midas on Tuesday 15th January 13:48

[fuoriserie]

Furyblade_Lee said:

A minature Exige. Do it!

it will be a modern restyling of the original fwd Midas......

[Furyblade_Lee]

Sorry, getting confused with a different (mid engined) car!

[fuoriserie]

first very rough sketch.....

[fuoriserie]

side view, with shorter rear and two differnt side windows

[Ozzie Dave]

BRILLIANT!!!, just show how good the initial was, for a 20 year old design it looks smart and modern in the update, and would look good anywhere. can we have it with a removable center roof section(yes I know its a GRP structure, but could it be done. What about a small ford underpinning.

Dave

[FlossyThePig]

fuoriserie said:

The car has always been one of my favourite small coupes, but after 20yrs, it needs a styling and engine update, what do you guys think?

The original Midas MkI was launched in 1978 so the styling is 30 years old now. The MkII was launched in 1981 which had some styling tweaks, suggested by Gordon Murray, to aid arodynamics.

The 1985 MkIII (Gold) was a major redesign moving away from Mini to Metro mechanicals. This had advanced aerodynamics, for the time, with undertrays fitted both front and rear.

I feel the MkIV (2+2), launched in the mid 90s, was a retrograde step as GTM made too many design restrictions in the brief given to Richard Oakes. Hence the bland front end due to having to use the lights from the Rover Metro. Some of the aerodynamic features were lost as the underbody is based on a Metro floorpan. Richard's ideas for weight saving GRP construction had to wait until the Libra.

My idea for a small contemporary FWD coupe is to think of a cross between Gold and a GTM Libra. My own MkII is going to get the twin headlamp look, possible using the innards from a Ford Puma.

[Ozzie Dave]

Hugh, I was happier with 20 years, when you say 30 I suddenly start feeling very old as it was one of the first kits i was really taken with. Am I right that one if its biggest influences was the old Mini Marcos with Richards Oaks brilliant styling and mechanics from the guy who did the Mac F1, now thats some going, taking into the new millennium perhaps another 20-30 years life in it like the 7!

Dave

[fuoriserie]

Ozzie Dave said:

BRILLIANT!!!, just show how good the initial was, for a 20 year old design it looks smart and modern in the update, and would look good anywhere. can we have it with a removable center roof section(yes I know its a GRP structure, but could it be done. What about a small ford underpinning.

Dave

I agree with you Dave....

I think the new Sigma engine in the Fiesta is a nice engine indeed.......but you consider other powerplants, for different parts of the world....

[fuoriserie]

FlossyThePig said:

fuoriserie said:

The car has always been one of my favourite small coupes, but after 20yrs, it needs a styling and engine update, what do you guys think?

My idea for a small contemporary FWD coupe is to think of a cross between Gold and a GTM Libra. My own MkII is going to get the twin headlamp look, possible using the innards from a Ford Puma.

That is a nice idea, I like it.......but the more hard edged 70's design influence is something that in todays car world, still stands out and looks really unique.

I'm more for softer shapes myself, and like the GTM libra a lot,...but a modernised version of the MK1, inspired by the 70's era , Maserati Bora, Boomerang, lotus Esprit Mk1, early Countach, Aston Martin Bulldog......will stand out in the crowd.

I would call it a post modern 70's design update...

[fuoriserie]

Ozzie Dave said:

Hugh, I was happier with 20 years, when you say 30 I suddenly start feeling very old as it was one of the first kits i was really taken with.

Dave

yep....I felt older too, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it......, I could look for a younger girlfriend though...

[fuoriserie]

FlossyThePig said:

fuoriserie said:

The car has always been one of my favourite small coupes, but after 20yrs, it needs a styling and engine update, what do you guys think?

The 1985 MkIII (Gold) was a major redesign moving away from Mini to Metro mechanicals. This had advanced aerodynamics, for the time, with undertrays fitted both front and rear.

Hugh, do you have any pictures of the underbody design study ?, I would be really interested in seeing the aerodynamics work.

Thanks
Italo

[Midas]

Italo, The underbody was really very simple, nice and flat, grp tray under the engine and another at the back that curved up at the back to meet the bumper with just two small side end plates.

Flossythepig is that you Hugh? who used to edit the Midas magazine?

[FlossyThePig]

Ozzie Dave said:

Hugh, I was happier with 20 years, when you say 30 I suddenly start feeling very old as it was one of the first kits i was really taken with. Am I right that one if its biggest influences was the old Mini Marcos with Richards Oaks brilliant styling and mechanics from the guy who did the Mac F1, now thats some going, taking into the new millennium perhaps another 20-30 years life in it like the 7!

Harold Dermott asked Richard to update the Mini Marcos, which he produced before the Midas. Harold's idea was a quick make-over (3 months). Two years later Richard finished the project which became the Midas. The car was displayed as his end of RCA design course project.

How many students of car design courses display cars that go into production?

Midas said:

Flossythepig is that you Hugh? who used to edit the Midas magazine?

I've been rumbled!

[alex_p]

Before getting too involved in the redesign of the car I think the target audience needs to be decided on. What I've got to say is purely my own opinion based on my impressions of the industry, and I'm not intending to be in any way rude about Midas cars.

From reading Which Kit and Kit Car for the past 8 years, and visiting the big shows, I've noticed that two main factors seem to sell (or at least generate interest in) kits: Big power and small prices. Obviously the majority of people who claim to offer both are usually fibbing a bit, but other than that the majority of the big players seem to make very fast and expensive (lets call £20K + expensive) cars, or cheap fun cars (under £12K). I don't think anyone can argue that the two most popular types of kit, Cobras and 7s, illustrate this trend pretty well (I'm not saying 7s aren't fast or all cost under £12K, but I hope you get my drift).

My worry is that kits that inhabit the middle ground (usually unique designs) have a much smaller appeal to the 'average' kit car consumer, even if they are the most practical, and therefore need to have a specific 'Thing' that can be instantly realised by the people who want to own one. This is what I meant earlier about a target audience.

My personal view is that companies like Midas really need to define themselves and have a 'Thing' to capture potential buyers with. I've seen the range of cars at many of the shows with people saying things like "that's quite nice" or "thats not bad for X pounds", rather than "I'd sell my Grandmother to have one of those" or "Wow". I feel this is what GTM managed to do with the original Libra. It had the "Wow" factor and could be pretty cheap to build with standard Metro underpinnings. It's sucess has allowed its continual development to a point where cars being built today only have a passing resemblance to the original design (just look at some launch photos if you don't believe me, you'll be shocked at the evolution).

None of this is intended to be critisism of the current range of Midas products, I've got an old GTM and love the fact that it is (quite) practical and out performs my daily driver whilst costing peanuts to run, but if they've decided to redesign the Bronze then they know its time for a change. And with S1 Elise prices falling the bar just seems to be getting raised higher and higher...

Maybe something to take on second hand hot-hatches would be a good formula: 2+2 seating, removable hard top, 1400 or 1600cc (the new Swift engine is a cracker but not that availible), unique but not outrageous styling for £10K. Give performance figures (around the Top-Gear track?) against the kind of cars someone in their mid 20s aspires to realistically own and it could be a winner...

Good luck with the restyle and I hope to be wanting to save up for one soon!

[fuoriserie]

FlossyThePig said:

Ozzie Dave said:

Hugh, I was happier with 20 years, when you say 30 I suddenly start feeling very old as it was one of the first kits i was really taken with. Am I right that one if its biggest influences was the old Mini Marcos with Richards Oaks brilliant styling and mechanics from the guy who did the Mac F1, now thats some going, taking into the new millennium perhaps another 20-30 years life in it like the 7!

How many students of car design courses display cars that go into production?

Midas said:

Flossythepig is that you Hugh? who used to edit the Midas magazine?

!

No one......, and even to this day, very few have ever tried or had their design manufactrured....

Maybe a few students should try to work out something realistic based on a real world chassis, and maybe get a brake from a kitcar manufacturer......

I believe that some of the new kids underate this industry, and that is why the Midas Bronze was a great achievement for Midas and opportunity for Richard Oakes talents.


I do believe the new Climax is based on a kitcar chassis, but i don't think it's production ready yet....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 15th January 13:13

[fuoriserie]

alex_p said:

Before getting too involved in the redesign of the car I think the target audience needs to be decided on. What I've got to say is purely my own opinion based on my impressions of the industry, and I'm not intending to be in any way rude about Midas cars.


Maybe something to take on second hand hot-hatches would be a good formula: 2+2 seating, removable hard top, 1400 or 1600cc (the new Swift engine is a cracker but not that availible), unique but not outrageous styling for £10K. Give performance figures (around the Top-Gear track?) against the kind of cars someone in their mid 20s aspires to realistically own and it could be a winner...

Good luck with the restyle and I hope to be wanting to save up for one soon!

Alex,

Thanks for the very good points raised........

I agree that the target or potential customer needs to be identified, and that competition in this niche would be tough, with used prices for the Elise mk1 tumbling, but then it's an Elise and not a Unique and almost bespoke design...

The lotus does have worldwide brand value and recognition.....the Bronze does not !.

I think you design brief is pretty similar, to what Stuart and I were thinking for a design update .

By the way, do you like the initial design direction ? any ideas ?

Ciao
Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 15th January 13:25

[alex_p]

Italo,

I can't see the designs at the moment, as for some reason my work computer doesn't display the pictures on 99% of the forum threads! I'm looking forward to having a look when I get home and I'll let you know my initial impressions,

Cheers

Alex