Thinking about a Chim...
Discussion
I, STUPIDLY, sold my T350C at the end of last year and have replaced it with a Z4M Coupe and i'm missing TVR's massively! Don't get me wrong, the BM is a great car but it will NEVER be a TVR.
I am seriously considering re-entering the TVR fold and quite fancy a Chim. I know it won't be anything like the T350 but I have always liked the Chim.
The questions is, is there a huge difference between the 4, 4.5 and 5 litre versions?
Also is there anythingn in particular that I sould look out for / be wary of?
Thanks in advance.
Hoolio
I am seriously considering re-entering the TVR fold and quite fancy a Chim. I know it won't be anything like the T350 but I have always liked the Chim.
The questions is, is there a huge difference between the 4, 4.5 and 5 litre versions?
Also is there anythingn in particular that I sould look out for / be wary of?
Thanks in advance.
Hoolio
You just have to go out and try a few. There is a lot of difference between the 4 and 5 litre, and with a good 5 ltr you will find it more drivable than the t350 and quicker. I had a standard Tuscan and was dissapointed to find my chimaera was actually quicker.
You have to try more than one example of each though as there are some 4.5's that are quicker than some 5ltrs. Its pot luck with TVR's as there can be a real difference between the same model built at the same time. Thats why we love em.
You have to try more than one example of each though as there are some 4.5's that are quicker than some 5ltrs. Its pot luck with TVR's as there can be a real difference between the same model built at the same time. Thats why we love em.
Right lets go through this...
The Chimaera will not be quicker than the Speed Six engined cars. Yes the torque will pull you off the line quicker but the power band is narrower so side by side you launch you get the advantage but when your power curve tails at just over 5k revs you will be changing gear when the S6 is free revving way past this, multiply the next few gear changes and there is an advantage. The Chimaera however will be easier to abuse, TVR5000 mentioned he had a Tuscan that was harder to drive, you had a T350. These cars are leagues apart. The Tuscan is notoriously tail happy which generally can only be cured by a set of Nitrons and a Tamora rack, the T350 isn't like this - it handled far better so if the 'quicker' comment realtes to the complete chassis dynamics you should take it with a pinch of salt.
When I was thinking of selling the 400 I did a deal on paper for S6 Tuscan until I drove it for half an hour and realised it handle like a pig - to put this into prospective the T350 is far far better. In the end I opted for a later 500, it was far more progressive in handling and as it was a toy I didn't relish the thought of it being laid up for rebuild in peak season when i wanted to use it.
I had a 400 for three years and I have had my 500 for four, I have driven loads and loads of all engine variants, the main difference is torque, with the larger engined models instant foot to the floor overtaking is more of a breeze but I also found in the twisties a 400 is easier to abuse more relaxed. You can nail a 400 in the bends without a care in the world (in the right conditions) whereas the 500 needs to be run with more of a balanced throttle approach, yes more fun sideways when you get the hang of it but some people don't want the extra pressure in driving approach? I do but that's me.
For me i would look towards a post 96 car as opposed to giving the engine priority. The post 96 cars (facelifted) gain a whole host of benefits, the front grill is removed and the bonnet vents widened, my 95 400 used to get really hot in summer in traffic, my 98 has never had an issue. The interior benefits from a more bespoke approach with ally switchgear etc. It also has the longer bootlid and the same chassis as the Griff which is said to be better.
Another choice you need to make is regarding steering - PAS or not? PAS cars are generally worth about a grand more, but are they worth it? The steering rack in a PAS car is 2.2 turns lock to lock, one of the fastest racks available in a production car, the non PAS rack is 2.4. The PAS rack is easier to use when parking etc but becomes very twitchy at high speed especially if you upgrade suspension or lower tyre profiles. My 400 had PAS and when I changed to a 500 I opted for non-PAS and it works for me far better, the feedback is far better at all speeds and I no longer have to dodge potholes at 80mph plus. This again is something you have to drive and make your own mind up about.
To sum up, I would rather have a clean late 400 than a ropier older 500 which might impress some people in the pub car park perhaps for the wrong reasons.
There are issues out there with cars suffering from chassis corrosion so buy wisely, yes here it comes - the outriggers are really hard to inspect on top and there are a lot of cars out there with unknown issues.
Get a feel for the car, the owner, the history - then get it inspected.
That's just my four penneth but hey - what do I know??
Enjoy!
The Chimaera will not be quicker than the Speed Six engined cars. Yes the torque will pull you off the line quicker but the power band is narrower so side by side you launch you get the advantage but when your power curve tails at just over 5k revs you will be changing gear when the S6 is free revving way past this, multiply the next few gear changes and there is an advantage. The Chimaera however will be easier to abuse, TVR5000 mentioned he had a Tuscan that was harder to drive, you had a T350. These cars are leagues apart. The Tuscan is notoriously tail happy which generally can only be cured by a set of Nitrons and a Tamora rack, the T350 isn't like this - it handled far better so if the 'quicker' comment realtes to the complete chassis dynamics you should take it with a pinch of salt.
When I was thinking of selling the 400 I did a deal on paper for S6 Tuscan until I drove it for half an hour and realised it handle like a pig - to put this into prospective the T350 is far far better. In the end I opted for a later 500, it was far more progressive in handling and as it was a toy I didn't relish the thought of it being laid up for rebuild in peak season when i wanted to use it.
I had a 400 for three years and I have had my 500 for four, I have driven loads and loads of all engine variants, the main difference is torque, with the larger engined models instant foot to the floor overtaking is more of a breeze but I also found in the twisties a 400 is easier to abuse more relaxed. You can nail a 400 in the bends without a care in the world (in the right conditions) whereas the 500 needs to be run with more of a balanced throttle approach, yes more fun sideways when you get the hang of it but some people don't want the extra pressure in driving approach? I do but that's me.
For me i would look towards a post 96 car as opposed to giving the engine priority. The post 96 cars (facelifted) gain a whole host of benefits, the front grill is removed and the bonnet vents widened, my 95 400 used to get really hot in summer in traffic, my 98 has never had an issue. The interior benefits from a more bespoke approach with ally switchgear etc. It also has the longer bootlid and the same chassis as the Griff which is said to be better.
Another choice you need to make is regarding steering - PAS or not? PAS cars are generally worth about a grand more, but are they worth it? The steering rack in a PAS car is 2.2 turns lock to lock, one of the fastest racks available in a production car, the non PAS rack is 2.4. The PAS rack is easier to use when parking etc but becomes very twitchy at high speed especially if you upgrade suspension or lower tyre profiles. My 400 had PAS and when I changed to a 500 I opted for non-PAS and it works for me far better, the feedback is far better at all speeds and I no longer have to dodge potholes at 80mph plus. This again is something you have to drive and make your own mind up about.
To sum up, I would rather have a clean late 400 than a ropier older 500 which might impress some people in the pub car park perhaps for the wrong reasons.
There are issues out there with cars suffering from chassis corrosion so buy wisely, yes here it comes - the outriggers are really hard to inspect on top and there are a lot of cars out there with unknown issues.
Get a feel for the car, the owner, the history - then get it inspected.
That's just my four penneth but hey - what do I know??
Enjoy!
Corin
Bomber Denton said:
Right lets go through this...
The Chimaera will not be quicker than the Speed Six engined cars. Yes the torque will pull you off the line quicker but the power band is narrower so side by side you launch you get the advantage but when your power curve tails at just over 5k revs you will be changing gear when the S6 is free revving way past this, multiply the next few gear changes and there is an advantage. The Chimaera however will be easier to abuse, TVR5000 mentioned he had a Tuscan that was harder to drive, you had a T350. These cars are leagues apart. The Tuscan is notoriously tail happy which generally can only be cured by a set of Nitrons and a Tamora rack, the T350 isn't like this - it handled far better so if the 'quicker' comment realtes to the complete chassis dynamics you should take it with a pinch of salt.
When I was thinking of selling the 400 I did a deal on paper for S6 Tuscan until I drove it for half an hour and realised it handle like a pig - to put this into prospective the T350 is far far better. In the end I opted for a later 500, it was far more progressive in handling and as it was a toy I didn't relish the thought of it being laid up for rebuild in peak season when i wanted to use it.
I had a 400 for three years and I have had my 500 for four, I have driven loads and loads of all engine variants, the main difference is torque, with the larger engined models instant foot to the floor overtaking is more of a breeze but I also found in the twisties a 400 is easier to abuse more relaxed. You can nail a 400 in the bends without a care in the world (in the right conditions) whereas the 500 needs to be run with more of a balanced throttle approach, yes more fun sideways when you get the hang of it but some people don't want the extra pressure in driving approach? I do but that's me.
For me i would look towards a post 96 car as opposed to giving the engine priority. The post 96 cars (facelifted) gain a whole host of benefits, the front grill is removed and the bonnet vents widened, my 95 400 used to get really hot in summer in traffic, my 98 has never had an issue. The interior benefits from a more bespoke approach with ally switchgear etc. It also has the longer bootlid and the same chassis as the Griff which is said to be better.
Another choice you need to make is regarding steering - PAS or not? PAS cars are generally worth about a grand more, but are they worth it? The steering rack in a PAS car is 2.2 turns lock to lock, one of the fastest racks available in a production car, the non PAS rack is 2.4. The PAS rack is easier to use when parking etc but becomes very twitchy at high speed especially if you upgrade suspension or lower tyre profiles. My 400 had PAS and when I changed to a 500 I opted for non-PAS and it works for me far better, the feedback is far better at all speeds and I no longer have to dodge potholes at 80mph plus. This again is something you have to drive and make your own mind up about.
To sum up, I would rather have a clean late 400 than a ropier older 500 which might impress some people in the pub car park perhaps for the wrong reasons.
There are issues out there with cars suffering from chassis corrosion so buy wisely, yes here it comes - the outriggers are really hard to inspect on top and there are a lot of cars out there with unknown issues.
Get a feel for the car, the owner, the history - then get it inspected.
That's just my four penneth but hey - what do I know??
Enjoy!
Sounds like some good advise.The Chimaera will not be quicker than the Speed Six engined cars. Yes the torque will pull you off the line quicker but the power band is narrower so side by side you launch you get the advantage but when your power curve tails at just over 5k revs you will be changing gear when the S6 is free revving way past this, multiply the next few gear changes and there is an advantage. The Chimaera however will be easier to abuse, TVR5000 mentioned he had a Tuscan that was harder to drive, you had a T350. These cars are leagues apart. The Tuscan is notoriously tail happy which generally can only be cured by a set of Nitrons and a Tamora rack, the T350 isn't like this - it handled far better so if the 'quicker' comment realtes to the complete chassis dynamics you should take it with a pinch of salt.
When I was thinking of selling the 400 I did a deal on paper for S6 Tuscan until I drove it for half an hour and realised it handle like a pig - to put this into prospective the T350 is far far better. In the end I opted for a later 500, it was far more progressive in handling and as it was a toy I didn't relish the thought of it being laid up for rebuild in peak season when i wanted to use it.
I had a 400 for three years and I have had my 500 for four, I have driven loads and loads of all engine variants, the main difference is torque, with the larger engined models instant foot to the floor overtaking is more of a breeze but I also found in the twisties a 400 is easier to abuse more relaxed. You can nail a 400 in the bends without a care in the world (in the right conditions) whereas the 500 needs to be run with more of a balanced throttle approach, yes more fun sideways when you get the hang of it but some people don't want the extra pressure in driving approach? I do but that's me.
For me i would look towards a post 96 car as opposed to giving the engine priority. The post 96 cars (facelifted) gain a whole host of benefits, the front grill is removed and the bonnet vents widened, my 95 400 used to get really hot in summer in traffic, my 98 has never had an issue. The interior benefits from a more bespoke approach with ally switchgear etc. It also has the longer bootlid and the same chassis as the Griff which is said to be better.
Another choice you need to make is regarding steering - PAS or not? PAS cars are generally worth about a grand more, but are they worth it? The steering rack in a PAS car is 2.2 turns lock to lock, one of the fastest racks available in a production car, the non PAS rack is 2.4. The PAS rack is easier to use when parking etc but becomes very twitchy at high speed especially if you upgrade suspension or lower tyre profiles. My 400 had PAS and when I changed to a 500 I opted for non-PAS and it works for me far better, the feedback is far better at all speeds and I no longer have to dodge potholes at 80mph plus. This again is something you have to drive and make your own mind up about.
To sum up, I would rather have a clean late 400 than a ropier older 500 which might impress some people in the pub car park perhaps for the wrong reasons.
There are issues out there with cars suffering from chassis corrosion so buy wisely, yes here it comes - the outriggers are really hard to inspect on top and there are a lot of cars out there with unknown issues.
Get a feel for the car, the owner, the history - then get it inspected.
That's just my four penneth but hey - what do I know??
Enjoy!
Thanks
Julian
Bomber Denton said:
I had a 400 for three years
And you still miss it - go on, admit it! Still going fine and I love it to bits. Hasn't missed a beat in 3 years and is just a fantastic car. (Alas, may get rid of it myself soon, as 8 months sat on a drive is no way to treat such a loyal friend). As you say, a good 400 versus a poor 500.....You want to drive a couple of 4s and 4.5s and 5s then to see for yourself IMHO.
I found the 4 quite fast enough (to start with) but as you have already had TVRs maybe a 5 is a good idea for you if you want some serious performance? I must admit I find the 5 a little bit duller to drive in some respects as it doesn't have the kick of the 4 I had but the power is delivered so much smoother it is beautiful, but somewhat scarily it just doesn't feel like you are going as fast, until you look in the rear view mirror, or the speedo....
I found the 4 quite fast enough (to start with) but as you have already had TVRs maybe a 5 is a good idea for you if you want some serious performance? I must admit I find the 5 a little bit duller to drive in some respects as it doesn't have the kick of the 4 I had but the power is delivered so much smoother it is beautiful, but somewhat scarily it just doesn't feel like you are going as fast, until you look in the rear view mirror, or the speedo....
Any of the correct low pressure turbo 20.0 Hothatchs will beat a 4.0 or a 4.5. As they have similar pwoer to a 4.5 and good torque.
4.0 luck to have 210 real bhp at the fly and a 4.5 lucky to have 240 out of the box.
500 has better heads over the 4.5 but all are WAY below the advertised TVR numbers.
A t350 has good headline power (say 320bhp) (if you think it is more you are dreaming).
A 500 will make about 260-270bhp at lower revs (with a lower final drive) so have good acceleration and better torque than a t350 (ok peak torque - but poor i.e. peaky / high up headline torque number).
A well drive 500 will stay with a t350 but not a 4.0 Sp6 car, unless it is tuned (bit more power and torque again). A t350 has better suspension and tad sider tyres than a 500 and a good bit wider than a 400 (450 can have 500 or 400 rims and tyres). A 500 has scope to be tuned and go a good bit quicker and when this is done and if you put good dampers and uprated spring weights on the car it can be every bit and faster tan a Sp6 car. (All TVR chassis going back 40 od years are fairly similar - all a Sag has over a t350 is wider rear wishbones.
So if you want car that bit be able to easily be developed to go as fast as a t350 or fatser then a 500 is the only sensible starting point.
You can obviously go nuts and make a Chim ALOT faster than any TVR like a few Nutters seem to have done but that is not what we are talking about here.
4.0 luck to have 210 real bhp at the fly and a 4.5 lucky to have 240 out of the box.
500 has better heads over the 4.5 but all are WAY below the advertised TVR numbers.
A t350 has good headline power (say 320bhp) (if you think it is more you are dreaming).
A 500 will make about 260-270bhp at lower revs (with a lower final drive) so have good acceleration and better torque than a t350 (ok peak torque - but poor i.e. peaky / high up headline torque number).
A well drive 500 will stay with a t350 but not a 4.0 Sp6 car, unless it is tuned (bit more power and torque again). A t350 has better suspension and tad sider tyres than a 500 and a good bit wider than a 400 (450 can have 500 or 400 rims and tyres). A 500 has scope to be tuned and go a good bit quicker and when this is done and if you put good dampers and uprated spring weights on the car it can be every bit and faster tan a Sp6 car. (All TVR chassis going back 40 od years are fairly similar - all a Sag has over a t350 is wider rear wishbones.
So if you want car that bit be able to easily be developed to go as fast as a t350 or fatser then a 500 is the only sensible starting point.
You can obviously go nuts and make a Chim ALOT faster than any TVR like a few Nutters seem to have done but that is not what we are talking about here.
blonde driver said:
Any of the correct low pressure turbo 20.0 Hothatchs will beat a 4.0 or a 4.5. As they have similar pwoer to a 4.5 and good torque.
i would challenge that in terms of acceleration - unless its 4wd - as most hot-hatches are FWD and there is no way you'll get the power down off the line to out drag a 1000kg RWD with good tyres and stacks of torque.
500 has better heads over the 4.5 but all are WAY below the advertised TVR numbers.
this seems to vary
So if you want car that bit be able to easily be developed to go as fast as a t350 or fatser then a 500 is the only sensible starting point.
not all 500s are cross bolted so that may be a distinct disadvantage whereas all 450s are
i would challenge that in terms of acceleration - unless its 4wd - as most hot-hatches are FWD and there is no way you'll get the power down off the line to out drag a 1000kg RWD with good tyres and stacks of torque.
500 has better heads over the 4.5 but all are WAY below the advertised TVR numbers.
this seems to vary
So if you want car that bit be able to easily be developed to go as fast as a t350 or fatser then a 500 is the only sensible starting point.
not all 500s are cross bolted so that may be a distinct disadvantage whereas all 450s are
Edited by Tahiti450 on Wednesday 16th January 11:43
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff