Arresting media.
Discussion
Hi chaps.
Could I plunder your collective knowledge? I am doing a study into safety at circuits and at the moment, am concentrating on the advances in arresting media (gravel traps and the like) in particular. Could I have the benefit of your thoughts, feedback and experience on the following?
1. Is pea gravel/shingle still used extensively, and is it still the #1 choice for runs offs etc?
2. Has it been replaced by something more modern, safer and more effective?
3. If so, what?
4. What are the pros and cons of pea gravel, and what must a replacement product have to do that much better than it? Or is it down to cost?
If you could add any other ideas too, about what the perfect media should be able to do, that'd be great. I appreciate that there are many variables, and a single seater will act differently to a touring car, which in turn would act differently to a bike.
Cheers.
Could I plunder your collective knowledge? I am doing a study into safety at circuits and at the moment, am concentrating on the advances in arresting media (gravel traps and the like) in particular. Could I have the benefit of your thoughts, feedback and experience on the following?
1. Is pea gravel/shingle still used extensively, and is it still the #1 choice for runs offs etc?
2. Has it been replaced by something more modern, safer and more effective?
3. If so, what?
4. What are the pros and cons of pea gravel, and what must a replacement product have to do that much better than it? Or is it down to cost?
If you could add any other ideas too, about what the perfect media should be able to do, that'd be great. I appreciate that there are many variables, and a single seater will act differently to a touring car, which in turn would act differently to a bike.
Cheers.
1. Is pea gravel/shingle still used extensively, and is it still the #1 choice for runs offs etc?
Yes and Yeas . Ask Mr L. Hamilton, he made extensive use of it during the Chinese GP. And he's been loitering there during recent testing in Spain, (Probably a nice spot to watch the Ferraris fly past.)
Yes and Yeas . Ask Mr L. Hamilton, he made extensive use of it during the Chinese GP. And he's been loitering there during recent testing in Spain, (Probably a nice spot to watch the Ferraris fly past.)
Thanks chaps.
Piglet,
I will do.. I just wanted to get a general perspective too. Thanks.
Flemke,
Cheers - I'll look into that. If its a hard surface, that must offer one heck of a lot of grip. I was reviewing airport run offs. They use a thinner layer of concrete that can support vehicles, but not aircraft which slow and lower themselves through a fractured surface. I would have thought that shards of concrete rupturing fuel lines and spiining away from turbofans would potentially cause havoc.
Cheers A3P. I thought it still was the #1 choice. I know that MIRA uses a harder, larger strata thats more irregular, but its obviously not used as much.
Piglet,
I will do.. I just wanted to get a general perspective too. Thanks.
Flemke,
Cheers - I'll look into that. If its a hard surface, that must offer one heck of a lot of grip. I was reviewing airport run offs. They use a thinner layer of concrete that can support vehicles, but not aircraft which slow and lower themselves through a fractured surface. I would have thought that shards of concrete rupturing fuel lines and spiining away from turbofans would potentially cause havoc.
Cheers A3P. I thought it still was the #1 choice. I know that MIRA uses a harder, larger strata thats more irregular, but its obviously not used as much.
.. al said:
1. Is pea gravel/shingle still used extensively, and is it still the #1 choice for runs offs etc?
2. Has it been replaced by something more modern, safer and more effective?
3. If so, what?
4. What are the pros and cons of pea gravel, and what must a replacement product have to do that much better than it? Or is it down to cost?
1. Yes, largely. 2. Has it been replaced by something more modern, safer and more effective?
3. If so, what?
4. What are the pros and cons of pea gravel, and what must a replacement product have to do that much better than it? Or is it down to cost?
2. Yes.
3. High-grip tarmac is gaining popularity. We test at Ricard and the high-grip run-offs there are superb. It has numerous advantages:
- Easier for a car to stop/change direction if it still has all its wheels. Flat-bottomed cars tend to skate over gravel like a surfboard.
- Less chance of rolling if it goes off sideways.
- No damage to the car. Gravel gets everywhere, batters paintwork and delicate items and the dust it creates is terrible. Plus, if the engine is still running as the car goes in, bits of gravel can throw things like water pump belts off.
- Less session stoppages to rescue beached cars, leading to more efficient use of the track.
High-grip run-offs do tend to ruin the look of a circuit though - at Ricard the cars look like they're driving a driving around a huge car park with a track painted on it. It takes away definition and character.
4. Largely covered in 3. above.
Hope that's of some use.
.. al said:
Flemke,
Cheers - I'll look into that. If its a hard surface, that must offer one heck of a lot of grip. I was reviewing airport run offs. They use a thinner layer of concrete that can support vehicles, but not aircraft which slow and lower themselves through a fractured surface. I would have thought that shards of concrete rupturing fuel lines and spiining away from turbofans would potentially cause havoc.
I can't cut and paste it, but check this out:Cheers - I'll look into that. If its a hard surface, that must offer one heck of a lot of grip. I was reviewing airport run offs. They use a thinner layer of concrete that can support vehicles, but not aircraft which slow and lower themselves through a fractured surface. I would have thought that shards of concrete rupturing fuel lines and spiining away from turbofans would potentially cause havoc.
http://www.circuitpaulricard.com/tracks/tracks.php...
Ahonen,
It is indeed, many thanks. I'm surprised that a granular more effective media than gravel hasn't been developed. I know that MIRA uses a larger harder matter, but it seems strange that the concrete route has been taken. It seems less flexible from an ops side, although I can see the benefit of having emergency services having 100% unfettered access.
Flemke,
Many thanks too. This is the pasted babelfish translation if anyone else is interested.
The layout of the Circuit Paul Ricard is legendary, it is today all the more an avant-gardist, innovator, technological and creative. Mainly dedicated to the tests, the circuit Paul Ricard High Tech Test Track is equipped with a maximum safety and completely news, grâe with the ` run-off', the control room of the direction of track, the information system ultrasophistiqué etc... RUN OFF the solutions installation, in terms of safety, are single and completely innovative: The gravel vats were removed and replaced by zones of release materialized by named asphalt surfaces "run-off". - the first zone of dégament, outside the track, is materialized by bands of blue color and matter more abrasive than the track itself. - second is ultra-abrasive in the prolongation of the first and identified by bands of red color.
It was conceived especially to increase the deceleration of the cars. - the third finally, on the zones of release where the risk is non-existent (usually treated in lawn) is made out of "double-layered white limestone". This coating is more adherent than the grass or grass. It was not enough to replace the gravel vats by zones of release out of asphalt to ensure a maximum safety, this is why the rails of safety were moved back in an extremely important way in order to more not represent one obstacle in the event of exit of track. For the esthetism, they moreover were aligned in a harmonious way and represent from now on pure lines around the track. CONCEPT BLUE LINE the "run-off" or "zones of release" out of asphalt, terribly complicated the reading of the track for the pilots launched at high speed (of 200 with more than 300 Km/h). The unit was completely black and the white lines of edges of track were not enough to have a precise and powerful control.
Philippe Gurdjian spent a time extremely important to imagine various solutions before finding that which it wished before very effective, but also creative and artistic. He retained the concept "Blue Line" which seemed to him more adapted for magnifier the track way "Pop Art" in this universe coloured of the Riviera. This innovation was worth with the circuit to receive in February 2003 the Great Price of the Automobile Festival for "its esthetism related to safety".
It is indeed, many thanks. I'm surprised that a granular more effective media than gravel hasn't been developed. I know that MIRA uses a larger harder matter, but it seems strange that the concrete route has been taken. It seems less flexible from an ops side, although I can see the benefit of having emergency services having 100% unfettered access.
Flemke,
Many thanks too. This is the pasted babelfish translation if anyone else is interested.
The layout of the Circuit Paul Ricard is legendary, it is today all the more an avant-gardist, innovator, technological and creative. Mainly dedicated to the tests, the circuit Paul Ricard High Tech Test Track is equipped with a maximum safety and completely news, grâe with the ` run-off', the control room of the direction of track, the information system ultrasophistiqué etc... RUN OFF the solutions installation, in terms of safety, are single and completely innovative: The gravel vats were removed and replaced by zones of release materialized by named asphalt surfaces "run-off". - the first zone of dégament, outside the track, is materialized by bands of blue color and matter more abrasive than the track itself. - second is ultra-abrasive in the prolongation of the first and identified by bands of red color.
It was conceived especially to increase the deceleration of the cars. - the third finally, on the zones of release where the risk is non-existent (usually treated in lawn) is made out of "double-layered white limestone". This coating is more adherent than the grass or grass. It was not enough to replace the gravel vats by zones of release out of asphalt to ensure a maximum safety, this is why the rails of safety were moved back in an extremely important way in order to more not represent one obstacle in the event of exit of track. For the esthetism, they moreover were aligned in a harmonious way and represent from now on pure lines around the track. CONCEPT BLUE LINE the "run-off" or "zones of release" out of asphalt, terribly complicated the reading of the track for the pilots launched at high speed (of 200 with more than 300 Km/h). The unit was completely black and the white lines of edges of track were not enough to have a precise and powerful control.
Philippe Gurdjian spent a time extremely important to imagine various solutions before finding that which it wished before very effective, but also creative and artistic. He retained the concept "Blue Line" which seemed to him more adapted for magnifier the track way "Pop Art" in this universe coloured of the Riviera. This innovation was worth with the circuit to receive in February 2003 the Great Price of the Automobile Festival for "its esthetism related to safety".
Another advatage of the high grip tarmac run off areas, which people tend not to think about, is that in an emergency situation the services can get to the car that much easier and quicker. Doctors and paramedics don't have to skate about over what used to be massive gravel traps to get to the scene of an accident. The chase car for instance at a GP car stop right next to the shunt if a car has gone into the tyres, rather than on the side of the circuit.
Not something I know anything about but I do know that Goodwood have been replacing their gravel traps with tarmac runoff, might be worth speaking to someone there on their motivation for doing so.
Thinking about it, I would imagine that tarma runoff has lower maintenance costs.
Chris (relieved this wasn't a thread about Max's secret police piling Martin Brundle into the back of a blacked out Maserati...)
Thinking about it, I would imagine that tarma runoff has lower maintenance costs.
Chris (relieved this wasn't a thread about Max's secret police piling Martin Brundle into the back of a blacked out Maserati...)
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