Buying Advice needed on E36 M3
Discussion
Hi i have a budget of 10k and im looking to buy a E36 M3. I have read loads about the engines in perticular the vanos/nikasil issue and im getting more confused by the minute. I dont mind spending 2k per year but i dont fancy massive engine bills so advice would be welcomed.
Should i buy a 3.0 or 3.2 Evo?
Would You buy a nikasil engine or look for the more modern alusil?
Did the 3.0 have a M52 engine or did it only come with the M50(no vanos) engine?
Did the E36 have a double vanos or was that the E46 only?
Thanks in advance.
Should i buy a 3.0 or 3.2 Evo?
Would You buy a nikasil engine or look for the more modern alusil?
Did the 3.0 have a M52 engine or did it only come with the M50(no vanos) engine?
Did the E36 have a double vanos or was that the E46 only?
Thanks in advance.
E36 M3 did not have Nikasil.
3.0 has single-VANOS = more reliable and cheaper to replace if it breaks
3.2 Evolution has double-VANOS = less reliable and more expensive to replace if it breaks
3.0 has five speed gearbox whish is strong, but also repairable
3.2 Evolution has six speed gearbox which is less robust and also sealed so you have to buy a whole enew one
£10k will get you a really good Evo. Buy on condition and look after it well. Double-VANOS should be okay as long as you let the car get thoroughly warmed-through before ragging it... obviously some of that depends on how the previous owner treated it.
I did a lot of research into E36 M3 Evos and decided I wanted one. What put me off was the comedy insurance quotes and the fact that the colour combination I wanted only cropped-up on cars with the SMG gearbox which isn't as good to use as the manual, is more likely to break, and costs more to replace.
3.0 has single-VANOS = more reliable and cheaper to replace if it breaks
3.2 Evolution has double-VANOS = less reliable and more expensive to replace if it breaks
3.0 has five speed gearbox whish is strong, but also repairable
3.2 Evolution has six speed gearbox which is less robust and also sealed so you have to buy a whole enew one
£10k will get you a really good Evo. Buy on condition and look after it well. Double-VANOS should be okay as long as you let the car get thoroughly warmed-through before ragging it... obviously some of that depends on how the previous owner treated it.
I did a lot of research into E36 M3 Evos and decided I wanted one. What put me off was the comedy insurance quotes and the fact that the colour combination I wanted only cropped-up on cars with the SMG gearbox which isn't as good to use as the manual, is more likely to break, and costs more to replace.
robetr said:
Hi i have a budget of 10k and im looking to buy a E36 M3. I have read loads about the engines in perticular the vanos/nikasil issue and im getting more confused by the minute. I dont mind spending 2k per year but i dont fancy massive engine bills so advice would be welcomed.
Should i buy a 3.0 or 3.2 Evo?
Would You buy a nikasil engine or look for the more modern alusil?
Did the 3.0 have a M52 engine or did it only come with the M50(no vanos) engine?
Did the E36 have a double vanos or was that the E46 only?
Thanks in advance.
Hold on a minute your happy paying £2k a year running costs! Does that include insurance??Should i buy a 3.0 or 3.2 Evo?
Would You buy a nikasil engine or look for the more modern alusil?
Did the 3.0 have a M52 engine or did it only come with the M50(no vanos) engine?
Did the E36 have a double vanos or was that the E46 only?
Thanks in advance.
Anyway given your going to run it for say 3 years so £6k running costs and then lets assume it holds 50% of its value £5k so the 3 years will have cost you £11k excl fuel & insurance & VED.
Thats £305pcm. - now you know where this is going a brand new 330d M Sport only costs (on PCP) £545pcm and that is leagues better than the cars you mention in both speed and comfort & reliability.
E36 M3 did not have Nikasil.
3.0 has single-VANOS = more reliable and cheaper to replace if it breaks
3.2 Evolution has double-VANOS = less reliable and more expensive to replace if it breaks
3.0 has five speed gearbox whish is strong, but also repairable
3.2 Evolution has six speed gearbox which is less robust and also sealed so you have to buy a whole enew one
£10k will get you a really good Evo. Buy on condition and look after it well. Double-VANOS should be okay as long as you let the car get thoroughly warmed-through before ragging it... obviously some of that depends on how the previous owner treated it.
I did a lot of research into E36 M3 Evos and decided I wanted one. What put me off was the comedy insurance quotes and the fact that the colour combination I wanted only cropped-up on cars with the SMG gearbox which isn't as good to use as the manual, is more likely to break, and costs more to replace.
Thanks very much mitch that answers most of my questions. The insurance costs are not such an issue as i must be getting old. Thanks Again Rob
3.0 has single-VANOS = more reliable and cheaper to replace if it breaks
3.2 Evolution has double-VANOS = less reliable and more expensive to replace if it breaks
3.0 has five speed gearbox whish is strong, but also repairable
3.2 Evolution has six speed gearbox which is less robust and also sealed so you have to buy a whole enew one
£10k will get you a really good Evo. Buy on condition and look after it well. Double-VANOS should be okay as long as you let the car get thoroughly warmed-through before ragging it... obviously some of that depends on how the previous owner treated it.
I did a lot of research into E36 M3 Evos and decided I wanted one. What put me off was the comedy insurance quotes and the fact that the colour combination I wanted only cropped-up on cars with the SMG gearbox which isn't as good to use as the manual, is more likely to break, and costs more to replace.
Thanks very much mitch that answers most of my questions. The insurance costs are not such an issue as i must be getting old. Thanks Again Rob
robetr said:
E36 M3 did not have Nikasil.
3.0 has single-VANOS = more reliable and cheaper to replace if it breaks
3.2 Evolution has double-VANOS = less reliable and more expensive to replace if it breaks
3.0 has five speed gearbox whish is strong, but also repairable
3.2 Evolution has six speed gearbox which is less robust and also sealed so you have to buy a whole enew one
£10k will get you a really good Evo. Buy on condition and look after it well. Double-VANOS should be okay as long as you let the car get thoroughly warmed-through before ragging it... obviously some of that depends on how the previous owner treated it.
I did a lot of research into E36 M3 Evos and decided I wanted one. What put me off was the comedy insurance quotes and the fact that the colour combination I wanted only cropped-up on cars with the SMG gearbox which isn't as good to use as the manual, is more likely to break, and costs more to replace.
Thanks very much mitch that answers most of my questions. The insurance costs are not such an issue as i must be getting old. Thanks Again Rob
Im not young either & clean lic & 5yrs NCD quotes were £3k+ whereas the M5 was quoting £800 and the 911 (996)TT was £480 p.a. 15k commuting & business miles - go figure... stupid prices for the M3 IMHO and given its low market value now pricing the ins that high is making them unviable3.0 has single-VANOS = more reliable and cheaper to replace if it breaks
3.2 Evolution has double-VANOS = less reliable and more expensive to replace if it breaks
3.0 has five speed gearbox whish is strong, but also repairable
3.2 Evolution has six speed gearbox which is less robust and also sealed so you have to buy a whole enew one
£10k will get you a really good Evo. Buy on condition and look after it well. Double-VANOS should be okay as long as you let the car get thoroughly warmed-through before ragging it... obviously some of that depends on how the previous owner treated it.
I did a lot of research into E36 M3 Evos and decided I wanted one. What put me off was the comedy insurance quotes and the fact that the colour combination I wanted only cropped-up on cars with the SMG gearbox which isn't as good to use as the manual, is more likely to break, and costs more to replace.
Thanks very much mitch that answers most of my questions. The insurance costs are not such an issue as i must be getting old. Thanks Again Rob
robetr said:
The insurance costs are not such an issue as i must be getting old.
I think it's down to the car more than the driver. I was quoted £1,500 to insure an E36 M3 Evo (worth £10k) ... compared to just under £1,000 for a Ferrari 328 (worth £30k)... or just under £800 for a BMW 840Ci Sport (worth £10k). Clearly the E36 M3 is not popular with insurance companies if it's a third less to insure a Ferrari that's worth three times as much! Good luck!!I think it's down to the car more than the driver. I was quoted £1,500 to insure an E36 M3 Evo (worth £10k) ... compared to just under £1,000 for a Ferrari 328 (worth £30k)... or just under £800 for a BMW 840Ci Sport (worth £10k). Clearly the E36 M3 is not popular with insurance companies if it's a third less to insure a Ferrari that's worth three times as much! Good luck!!
Was looking at 840ci sport myself and was quoted around £500 for the 4.4ltr however i think i would rather the M3, was quoted just over £700 based on 3.2 1999 evo. Not to bad i thought!!
Was looking at 840ci sport myself and was quoted around £500 for the 4.4ltr however i think i would rather the M3, was quoted just over £700 based on 3.2 1999 evo. Not to bad i thought!!
We paid just over £600 a year for insurance on our 98 Evo. The Vanos unit was replaced twice. The dealer said it wasn't working correctly so replaced it under warranty and then that unit developed an oil leak so that was replaced as well. The dealer also swapped the clutch slave cylinder for a 328 one to give it a better ratio. Glad we had the warranty because come MOT time we had the top rear suspension mounts replaced and one of exhaust manifolds. Also had the battery replaced by a nice BMW man in the drive.
Regards
Chris
Regards
Chris
Welshbeef said:
Im not young either & clean lic & 5yrs NCD quotes were £3k+ whereas the M5 was quoting £800 and the 911 (996)TT was £480 p.a. 15k commuting & business miles - go figure... stupid prices for the M3 IMHO and given its low market value now pricing the ins that high is making them unviable
Where the hell do you live to get quotes as high as that?swiftpete said:
I am just wondering how much faster the evo is than the other version? I know the figures on paper, 286 vs 321 i think, but do they actually feel much different to drive?
286 v 316 - not all that much in it.Having the 6 speed box in the Evo helps motorway eceonomy if that's of any benefit to you.
I'd rather have (and actually do have) the Evo, if not only because it's the newer car and so likely to be in slightly better condition.
The insurance issue seems to stem from the fact that they're now cheap enough to be bought by people with little driving experience, who seem keen to wrap them around objects, hence pushing premiums up.
swiftpete said:
I am just wondering how much faster the evo is than the other version? I know the figures on paper, 286 vs 321 i think, but do they actually feel much different to drive?
Two stock cars both in perfect tune in a drag race and the EVO would win -but not by much. If you have never driven an M3, or indeed a car with this type of performance, you will not need more. It is a hell of a car. These cars are so old now they are no longer in perfect tune, may have a chequered history so it really depends on the individual car.
Saying that, a 150k mile 3.0, may have been better looked after than the 40kmile 3.2's that sometimes pop up for sale.
Mate
I've got an EVO SMG for sale for a lot less than 10k, in good condition for its age... (OK, shameless plug over!)
To be honest (having looked at a few before buying), price is not always a guide. Sometimes a 3.0 with high miles can be in better condition than an EVO with low miles and higher price. The cars are better off being driven and maintained than made a garage queen and the engines (both sorts) seem to be bomb proof. Don't be put off by all the horror stories as they are very few and far between and the number of issues vs the number of cars made is miniscule. 3.0 or 3.2 are the same in terms of real world performance. The 3.2 is a bit newer so has digital climate control, 6 gears and looks more modern inside. That's about it though.
And don't believe all the rubbish about the 6 speed box. They're not welded shut so you can rebuild them in the unlikely event it goes pop. Same with the SMG. Some go wrong, most are fine. Again, should it go wrong any decent indie shoule be able to sort it for £1200 or thereabouts. BTW, with cars of this age, ignore BMW servicing and go to a decent specialist.
If you have the 10k budget, spend 6 or 7 for a good car and put 3-4 aside (earning insterst) for care / maintenance / any issues that crop up and you will be more than satisfied and likely have a decent amount of spare cash left over.
I've got an EVO SMG for sale for a lot less than 10k, in good condition for its age... (OK, shameless plug over!)
To be honest (having looked at a few before buying), price is not always a guide. Sometimes a 3.0 with high miles can be in better condition than an EVO with low miles and higher price. The cars are better off being driven and maintained than made a garage queen and the engines (both sorts) seem to be bomb proof. Don't be put off by all the horror stories as they are very few and far between and the number of issues vs the number of cars made is miniscule. 3.0 or 3.2 are the same in terms of real world performance. The 3.2 is a bit newer so has digital climate control, 6 gears and looks more modern inside. That's about it though.
And don't believe all the rubbish about the 6 speed box. They're not welded shut so you can rebuild them in the unlikely event it goes pop. Same with the SMG. Some go wrong, most are fine. Again, should it go wrong any decent indie shoule be able to sort it for £1200 or thereabouts. BTW, with cars of this age, ignore BMW servicing and go to a decent specialist.
If you have the 10k budget, spend 6 or 7 for a good car and put 3-4 aside (earning insterst) for care / maintenance / any issues that crop up and you will be more than satisfied and likely have a decent amount of spare cash left over.
Edited by Cactussed on Thursday 10th April 14:01
Edited by Cactussed on Friday 11th April 07:26
I broke a '93 Xantia when I needed an engine for my 306 and that had absolutely no rust in the shell at all, it it wasn't some pensioners polished garage queen - it was an ex rep car that must have spent it's life on motorways in all weathers. Don't know how PSA have galvanised their chassis differently to others but it works.
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