70 MPH DC into a 30 limit
Discussion
Is this correct? I don't want to use the term legal as I know there is a whole minefield of regs covering temporary traffic orders etc.
I was under the impression that you couldn't have a 50mph differential like that without it being graduated (ie 70 > 50 for x distance > 30) as it would lead to potentially dangerous slowing down manoeuvres. I know that when I've slowed from 70 safely to 30, doing 30 at the change of limit signs, (times of light traffic etc.) at this particular stretch it's caused all manner of near misses from people who really aren't either a: awake, or b: thinking that the limits apply to them as well.
I know it would be their fault if they hit me etc, but I'd like to prevent having a shortened motor by being smacked by someone who misjudges the ability of me to slow down to the limit in just such a space.
It doesn't help with "POLICE SPEED CHECK ZONE" and speed camera signage all over the place, plus a dedicated layby for "POLICE VEHICLES ONLY"... They're definitely active there as I've seen a few of the local traffic T5's sitting with the blues on after stopping people who don't comply, however it is justified as the limit covers a rather dangerous set of roadworks.
I was under the impression that you couldn't have a 50mph differential like that without it being graduated (ie 70 > 50 for x distance > 30) as it would lead to potentially dangerous slowing down manoeuvres. I know that when I've slowed from 70 safely to 30, doing 30 at the change of limit signs, (times of light traffic etc.) at this particular stretch it's caused all manner of near misses from people who really aren't either a: awake, or b: thinking that the limits apply to them as well.
I know it would be their fault if they hit me etc, but I'd like to prevent having a shortened motor by being smacked by someone who misjudges the ability of me to slow down to the limit in just such a space.
It doesn't help with "POLICE SPEED CHECK ZONE" and speed camera signage all over the place, plus a dedicated layby for "POLICE VEHICLES ONLY"... They're definitely active there as I've seen a few of the local traffic T5's sitting with the blues on after stopping people who don't comply, however it is justified as the limit covers a rather dangerous set of roadworks.
Frederick said:
Is this correct? I don't want to use the term legal as I know there is a whole minefield of regs covering temporary traffic orders etc.
I was under the impression that you couldn't have a 50mph differential like that without it being graduated (ie 70 > 50 for x distance > 30) as it would lead to potentially dangerous slowing down manoeuvres. I know that when I've slowed from 70 safely to 30, doing 30 at the change of limit signs, (times of light traffic etc.) at this particular stretch it's caused all manner of near misses from people who really aren't either a: awake, or b: thinking that the limits apply to them as well.
I know it would be their fault if they hit me etc, but I'd like to prevent having a shortened motor by being smacked by someone who misjudges the ability of me to slow down to the limit in just such a space.
It doesn't help with "POLICE SPEED CHECK ZONE" and speed camera signage all over the place, plus a dedicated layby for "POLICE VEHICLES ONLY"... They're definitely active there as I've seen a few of the local traffic T5's sitting with the blues on after stopping people who don't comply, however it is justified as the limit covers a rather dangerous set of roadworks.
I hate to blow your bubble but 70 to 30 isn't a 50mph differential. I was under the impression that you couldn't have a 50mph differential like that without it being graduated (ie 70 > 50 for x distance > 30) as it would lead to potentially dangerous slowing down manoeuvres. I know that when I've slowed from 70 safely to 30, doing 30 at the change of limit signs, (times of light traffic etc.) at this particular stretch it's caused all manner of near misses from people who really aren't either a: awake, or b: thinking that the limits apply to them as well.
I know it would be their fault if they hit me etc, but I'd like to prevent having a shortened motor by being smacked by someone who misjudges the ability of me to slow down to the limit in just such a space.
It doesn't help with "POLICE SPEED CHECK ZONE" and speed camera signage all over the place, plus a dedicated layby for "POLICE VEHICLES ONLY"... They're definitely active there as I've seen a few of the local traffic T5's sitting with the blues on after stopping people who don't comply, however it is justified as the limit covers a rather dangerous set of roadworks.
vonhosen said:
Frederick said:
Is this correct? I don't want to use the term legal as I know there is a whole minefield of regs covering temporary traffic orders etc.
I was under the impression that you couldn't have a 50mph differential like that without it being graduated (ie 70 > 50 for x distance > 30) as it would lead to potentially dangerous slowing down manoeuvres. I know that when I've slowed from 70 safely to 30, doing 30 at the change of limit signs, (times of light traffic etc.) at this particular stretch it's caused all manner of near misses from people who really aren't either a: awake, or b: thinking that the limits apply to them as well.
I know it would be their fault if they hit me etc, but I'd like to prevent having a shortened motor by being smacked by someone who misjudges the ability of me to slow down to the limit in just such a space.
It doesn't help with "POLICE SPEED CHECK ZONE" and speed camera signage all over the place, plus a dedicated layby for "POLICE VEHICLES ONLY"... They're definitely active there as I've seen a few of the local traffic T5's sitting with the blues on after stopping people who don't comply, however it is justified as the limit covers a rather dangerous set of roadworks.
I hate to blow your bubble but 70 to 30 isn't a 50mph differential. I was under the impression that you couldn't have a 50mph differential like that without it being graduated (ie 70 > 50 for x distance > 30) as it would lead to potentially dangerous slowing down manoeuvres. I know that when I've slowed from 70 safely to 30, doing 30 at the change of limit signs, (times of light traffic etc.) at this particular stretch it's caused all manner of near misses from people who really aren't either a: awake, or b: thinking that the limits apply to them as well.
I know it would be their fault if they hit me etc, but I'd like to prevent having a shortened motor by being smacked by someone who misjudges the ability of me to slow down to the limit in just such a space.
It doesn't help with "POLICE SPEED CHECK ZONE" and speed camera signage all over the place, plus a dedicated layby for "POLICE VEHICLES ONLY"... They're definitely active there as I've seen a few of the local traffic T5's sitting with the blues on after stopping people who don't comply, however it is justified as the limit covers a rather dangerous set of roadworks.
And... isn't this site full of people saying how moddern cars can stop much quicker these days 
It's well within peoples ability to reduces their speed down from 70 to 30 (230 mph difference
) safely... if they can't, then it's THEIR fault, certainly not the fault of the traffic scheme or the police who are policing the reduction. People really want to take little responsibility these days for their own behaviour and try and blame everything but themselves if they can't drive safely and have a crash due to their own retardedness (like that word) 
It's well within peoples ability to reduces their speed down from 70 to 30 (230 mph difference
) safely... if they can't, then it's THEIR fault, certainly not the fault of the traffic scheme or the police who are policing the reduction. People really want to take little responsibility these days for their own behaviour and try and blame everything but themselves if they can't drive safely and have a crash due to their own retardedness (like that word) 
7db said:
And nor is it prohibited. The big signs with the number in a red circle are the clue.
If you find all the signage confusing, why not slow down a bit to read it?
Likewise, why don't you slow down and read my post...If you find all the signage confusing, why not slow down a bit to read it?
I said I didn't have a problem slowing down legally before the 70 limit finishes, in order to be doing 30 when entering the 30 limit, I'm saying I have a problem with the fact that there is a lot of joe public who seem to be incapable of doing so, hence asking the question is it correct in doing so or was there some mandate for graduated speed drops...
Try being a little less flippant next time eh?
Frederick said:
7db said:
And nor is it prohibited. The big signs with the number in a red circle are the clue.
If you find all the signage confusing, why not slow down a bit to read it?
Likewise, why don't you slow down and read my post...If you find all the signage confusing, why not slow down a bit to read it?
I said I didn't have a problem slowing down legally before the 70 limit finishes, in order to be doing 30 when entering the 30 limit, I'm saying I have a problem with the fact that there is a lot of joe public who seem to be incapable of doing so, hence asking the question is it correct in doing so or was there some mandate for graduated speed drops...
Try being a little less flippant next time eh?
Funky Teapot said:
you want to treat people as idiots and assume they can't slow down correctly from a piffling 70 to a quite sedate 30 ? If people can't slow down correctly, it's THEIR fault, not the scheme... if they run in to the back of you it's THEIR fault for doing so.... the speed reduction scheme is in itself safe, it's idiots who can't slow down who aren't safe.
As I mentioned above, I do take all actions necessary to prevent an accident from occurring... Maybe it's just me and the fact I'm thinking lowest-common-denominator, but a graduated reduction would maybe help prevent the accidents from happening in the first place, rather than having to deal with the fallout afterwards...Plus if I did slow down to 30 from 70, and the numpty behind didn't - the results of a 40mph (still kicking myself after that faux pas before) closing speed accident would probably be far worse than that of a 20mph one.
I hate this "I am doing right so it's your fault, deal with it" idea... surely good and/or safe driving means taking into account what may happen through other people's actions or inactions and acting accordingly? (ie I slam my brakes on and get shunted, which is all well and good but if the impact then flips the car into the other carriageway and I get shunted by a lorry back the way I came, it would be pretty damn hard to say "it's your fault" whilst sitting on a cloud playing a harp...)
Funky Teapot said:
And... isn't this site full of people saying how moddern cars can stop much quicker these days
It's well within peoples ability to reduces their speed down from 70 to 30 (230 mph difference) safely... if they can't, then it's THEIR fault, certainly not the fault of the traffic scheme or the police who are policing the reduction. People really want to take little responsibility these days for their own behaviour and try and blame everything but themselves if they can't drive safely and have a crash due to their own retardedness (like that word)
I do hope this isn't another utterly predictable, simplistic, hysterical, stupid, banal, irritating, incorrect, emotive, lying, poisonous troll with an undeclared vested interest in cameras (e.g. Highway61) and/or an irrational anti-car agenda which it callously considers more important than actually saving lives (e.g. every cycling forum troll we've ever had). There has to be something that explains the antagonistic tone and the illogical advocacy of the current level of speed enforcement in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's actually making things worse.It's well within peoples ability to reduces their speed down from 70 to 30 (230 mph difference
) safely... if they can't, then it's THEIR fault, certainly not the fault of the traffic scheme or the police who are policing the reduction. People really want to take little responsibility these days for their own behaviour and try and blame everything but themselves if they can't drive safely and have a crash due to their own retardedness (like that word) My advice to any such troll would be "We've heard it all a million times before, and it was boring the first time as well, so if you can't put forward some new, interesting and correct arguments then you're just wasting everyone's time, including yours".
From Circ Roads DT 1/2006 - Setting Local Speed Limits:
Occasionally it may be appropriate to use a short length of 40 mph or 50 mph speed limit as an intermediate transition between a length of road subject to a national limit and another length on which a lower limit is in force, for example on the outskirts of villages or urban areas with adjoining intermittent development. However, the use of such transitional limits should be restricted to sections of road where immediate speed
reduction causes real difficulty or is likely to be less effective.
dvd
Occasionally it may be appropriate to use a short length of 40 mph or 50 mph speed limit as an intermediate transition between a length of road subject to a national limit and another length on which a lower limit is in force, for example on the outskirts of villages or urban areas with adjoining intermittent development. However, the use of such transitional limits should be restricted to sections of road where immediate speed
reduction causes real difficulty or is likely to be less effective.
dvd
GPSHead said:
Funky Teapot said:
And... isn't this site full of people saying how moddern cars can stop much quicker these days
It's well within peoples ability to reduces their speed down from 70 to 30 (230 mph difference) safely... if they can't, then it's THEIR fault, certainly not the fault of the traffic scheme or the police who are policing the reduction. People really want to take little responsibility these days for their own behaviour and try and blame everything but themselves if they can't drive safely and have a crash due to their own retardedness (like that word)
I do hope this isn't another utterly predictable, simplistic, hysterical, stupid, banal, irritating, incorrect, emotive, lying, poisonous troll with an undeclared vested interest in cameras (e.g. Highway61) and/or an irrational anti-car agenda which it callously considers more important than actually saving lives (e.g. every cycling forum troll we've ever had). There has to be something that explains the antagonistic tone and the illogical advocacy of the current level of speed enforcement in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's actually making things worse.It's well within peoples ability to reduces their speed down from 70 to 30 (230 mph difference
) safely... if they can't, then it's THEIR fault, certainly not the fault of the traffic scheme or the police who are policing the reduction. People really want to take little responsibility these days for their own behaviour and try and blame everything but themselves if they can't drive safely and have a crash due to their own retardedness (like that word) My advice to any such troll would be "We've heard it all a million times before, and it was boring the first time as well, so if you can't put forward some new, interesting and correct arguments then you're just wasting everyone's time, including yours".
Dwight VanDriver said:
From Circ Roads DT 1/2006 - Setting Local Speed Limits:
Occasionally it may be appropriate to use a short length of 40 mph or 50 mph speed limit as an intermediate transition between a length of road subject to a national limit and another length on which a lower limit is in force, for example on the outskirts of villages or urban areas with adjoining intermittent development. However, the use of such transitional limits should be restricted to sections of road where immediate speed
reduction causes real difficulty or is likely to be less effective.
dvd
Correct. Under previous legislation, the use of graduated limits was more strictly prohibited - the advice to roads authorities then was "just don't do it".Occasionally it may be appropriate to use a short length of 40 mph or 50 mph speed limit as an intermediate transition between a length of road subject to a national limit and another length on which a lower limit is in force, for example on the outskirts of villages or urban areas with adjoining intermittent development. However, the use of such transitional limits should be restricted to sections of road where immediate speed
reduction causes real difficulty or is likely to be less effective.
dvd
The new new guidance acknbowledges that there might be circumstances where it would be better to use graduated speed limits, so roads authorities are now permitted to do so. It is still clear that, generally, they should not.
If you're surprised at 40mph differentials in speed limits then either
(a) you haven't driven far or
(b) you should ask your labrador if he's seen any.
From the way the OP reads the limit is a temporary restriction and put in place due to road works, if I am wrong then you may as well ignore the rest of this!!!
Most likely it is in place as a measure to protect the road workers or possibly due to missing road furniture such as normal signage or barriers.
It is legal and enforceable. As you state their have been road patrols enforcing the limit and the requirement for them to do so is down to those who have chosen to ignore the change in limit creating a danger to those who are complying with it(you).
It's a fair question you have asked, my own feelings on it are that such a sudden drop often leads to more problems than it solves and would be better off being staggered but this depends largely on volume of traffic where the current train of thought is whenever possible keep the traffic flowing until the restriction is absolutely necessary.
Many people aren't aware of it but most major trunk roads are built and/or maintained by private companies who have their own traffic management systems in place.
When they build the roads a contract is agreed with a very small amount being paid to them from the government through your road fund licence per car using the road so time is money to them.
When roadworks are planned they are done so through meetings and consultation with the police, local authority, health and safety executive and any other relevant agency who will make recommendations, but whatever the results of the various negotiations it is left to the police to well... Police it by whatever means and try to keep you the motorist safe.
A bit of a ramble but it is a very very very brief account of how these things come about, hope it explains it for you.
If enough people are being caught don't be surprisd to see a static camera being placed at the site depending on how long the works will be running for.
Most likely it is in place as a measure to protect the road workers or possibly due to missing road furniture such as normal signage or barriers.
It is legal and enforceable. As you state their have been road patrols enforcing the limit and the requirement for them to do so is down to those who have chosen to ignore the change in limit creating a danger to those who are complying with it(you).
It's a fair question you have asked, my own feelings on it are that such a sudden drop often leads to more problems than it solves and would be better off being staggered but this depends largely on volume of traffic where the current train of thought is whenever possible keep the traffic flowing until the restriction is absolutely necessary.
Many people aren't aware of it but most major trunk roads are built and/or maintained by private companies who have their own traffic management systems in place.
When they build the roads a contract is agreed with a very small amount being paid to them from the government through your road fund licence per car using the road so time is money to them.
When roadworks are planned they are done so through meetings and consultation with the police, local authority, health and safety executive and any other relevant agency who will make recommendations, but whatever the results of the various negotiations it is left to the police to well... Police it by whatever means and try to keep you the motorist safe.
A bit of a ramble but it is a very very very brief account of how these things come about, hope it explains it for you.
If enough people are being caught don't be surprisd to see a static camera being placed at the site depending on how long the works will be running for.
Funky Teapot said:
Frederick said:
7db said:
And nor is it prohibited. The big signs with the number in a red circle are the clue.
If you find all the signage confusing, why not slow down a bit to read it?
Likewise, why don't you slow down and read my post...If you find all the signage confusing, why not slow down a bit to read it?
I said I didn't have a problem slowing down legally before the 70 limit finishes, in order to be doing 30 when entering the 30 limit, I'm saying I have a problem with the fact that there is a lot of joe public who seem to be incapable of doing so, hence asking the question is it correct in doing so or was there some mandate for graduated speed drops...
Try being a little less flippant next time eh?
s can buy more donuts!This brings to mind a dual carriageway I drive on quite often.
70mph, then about 200m before the roundabout there is a 30mph limit, which I suppose is ok. But the 30mph limit then continues for 200m after the roundabout. This is a rich pickings spot for the scameras.
So is it a legal requirement for both sides of dual carriageway to have the same speed limit?
70mph, then about 200m before the roundabout there is a 30mph limit, which I suppose is ok. But the 30mph limit then continues for 200m after the roundabout. This is a rich pickings spot for the scameras.
So is it a legal requirement for both sides of dual carriageway to have the same speed limit?
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