Xenon Headlights...surely not this simple..?
Discussion
Saw this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TVR-CERBERA-CHIMAERA-XENON-HEADLIGHT-BULBS-HID-UPGRADE_W0QQitemZ260205309498QQihZ016QQcategoryZ72235QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Advert says about the Xenon bulbs:
"Yes these are a direct replacement for your existing bulbs. There are no extra modifications needed to install these. "
Anyone think that claim could be correct? No extra modifications and they are a straight swap for existing bulbs? If so then surely it's a fantastic and cheap upgrade to the Chimaera lights (which aren't very good lets be honest)...
Cheers
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TVR-CERBERA-CHIMAERA-XENON-HEADLIGHT-BULBS-HID-UPGRADE_W0QQitemZ260205309498QQihZ016QQcategoryZ72235QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Advert says about the Xenon bulbs:
"Yes these are a direct replacement for your existing bulbs. There are no extra modifications needed to install these. "
Anyone think that claim could be correct? No extra modifications and they are a straight swap for existing bulbs? If so then surely it's a fantastic and cheap upgrade to the Chimaera lights (which aren't very good lets be honest)...
Cheers
It is indeed *almost* that simple.
You need to mount 2 fag packet sized boxes of electronics in the inner wings somewhere.
I'm not saying anything about legality etc - check with your insurer. This can apparently be a minefield if some people's experiences on here are anything to go by.
You need to mount 2 fag packet sized boxes of electronics in the inner wings somewhere.
I'm not saying anything about legality etc - check with your insurer. This can apparently be a minefield if some people's experiences on here are anything to go by.
To copy from another forum;
"There are two types of xenon lights... HID xenon's (which are commonly referred to as xenon's) and bulbs with Xenon gas in them (which allows a much brighter filament to be installed).
The HID ones require a separate power supply and weigh in at over 10kg each over the OEM ones... plus by law you need a washer jet."
Those bulbs, if any good would in theory be better than your standard and worth a punt. I think Philips are known for making good bulbs.
Have a google.
David
"There are two types of xenon lights... HID xenon's (which are commonly referred to as xenon's) and bulbs with Xenon gas in them (which allows a much brighter filament to be installed).
The HID ones require a separate power supply and weigh in at over 10kg each over the OEM ones... plus by law you need a washer jet."
Those bulbs, if any good would in theory be better than your standard and worth a punt. I think Philips are known for making good bulbs.
Have a google.
David
dnb said:
It is indeed *almost* that simple.
You need to mount 2 fag packet sized boxes of electronics in the inner wings somewhere.
I'm not saying anything about legality etc - check with your insurer. This can apparently be a minefield if some people's experiences on here are anything to go by.
I think that if you go the whole 9 yards and upgrade the lights to the xenon unit (not just the bulb). Then you have to, by law, have headlight washer jets.You need to mount 2 fag packet sized boxes of electronics in the inner wings somewhere.
I'm not saying anything about legality etc - check with your insurer. This can apparently be a minefield if some people's experiences on here are anything to go by.
I think....
Look here - http://www.powerbulbs.com/ and spend some money.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Monday 21st January 11:45
dnb said:
It is indeed *almost* that simple.
You need to mount 2 fag packet sized boxes of electronics in the inner wings somewhere.
I'm not saying anything about legality etc - check with your insurer. This can apparently be a minefield if some people's experiences on here are anything to go by.
You didn't follow the link dnbYou need to mount 2 fag packet sized boxes of electronics in the inner wings somewhere.
I'm not saying anything about legality etc - check with your insurer. This can apparently be a minefield if some people's experiences on here are anything to go by.
The bulbs are not HID Xenon, they will just a bit Blue and a little brighter than 'standard' items.
Guess if you are thinking of this it might be worth further investigations :
From the DfT:
December 2006
Aftermarket HID headlamps
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
From the DfT:
December 2006
Aftermarket HID headlamps
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
I bought these last month and fitted them to my T350 last week and what a difference they make. They totally transform the car and were so simple to install.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
See second point 2 in the rev-erend's post. kdy2001uk said:
I have no idea if their legal. I certainly haven't had any problems with mine. I could hardly see a thing at night with the standard bulbs. These xenon lights are great!
kdy2001uk, thanks for telling us about these lights. Re legality, why don't you ask the seller, whom I believe is called KDY London? Maybe you have bumped into each other somewhere in the KDY world. According to the KDY website (KDY London that is), the lights are 100% legal. But according to the DoT information posted above, they would not be strictly legal unless the car they were fitted to had self levelling and headlamp washers. kdy2001uk, perhaps you could mention that to KDY London if you do decide to talk to him.
gooner
Pepsi_x said:
Sooooo, in this case, where you would just be replacing the current bulbs with these Xenon-ish bulbs, are we thinking it is legal or not?
If you just replace your existing bulbs with the ones advertised on the link in your original post, there is no problem with legality at all. They are not Xenon HID lights, but they are a bit brighter and slightly bluer than the bulbs you have at the moment.If you want to improve the lights at low cost/risk these are quite good, pretty much the same as the Philips and Osram equivalent bulbs by the look of it. However I would seriously consided the Modwise brighter lights kit as well, which increases the current to the lights as well, to the spec it should be, and made a big difference to my Griff and to many others. Still not as good as HID no doubt but completely legal and straightforward. Modwise
gooner
Gooner said:
kdy2001uk said:
I have no idea if their legal. I certainly haven't had any problems with mine. I could hardly see a thing at night with the standard bulbs. These xenon lights are great!
kdy2001uk, thanks for telling us about these lights. Re legality, why don't you ask the seller, whom I believe is called KDY London? Maybe you have bumped into each other somewhere in the KDY world. According to the KDY website (KDY London that is), the lights are 100% legal. But according to the DoT information posted above, they would not be strictly legal unless the car they were fitted to had self levelling and headlamp washers. kdy2001uk, perhaps you could mention that to KDY London if you do decide to talk to him.
gooner
Pepsi_x said:
Sooooo, in this case, where you would just be replacing the current bulbs with these Xenon-ish bulbs, are we thinking it is legal or not?
I wouldn't bother with them they're just rubbish masquerading as decent bulbs. I've seen them and they're not as good as these for example.yep forget the crap they will pass mot, sure they might not be fully compliant but niether are dodgy spaced private lettering number plates !!
anyway yes HID are good but they dont last ! I have changed 2 sets of ballasts and bulbs ( they were Bosch components )
Only a full ballast and bulb will give you good results
anyway yes HID are good but they dont last ! I have changed 2 sets of ballasts and bulbs ( they were Bosch components )
Only a full ballast and bulb will give you good results
The e-bay items you have given a link for (Aceparts) are only normal H4 bulbs with a slightly more blue colour temperature. I bought some to replace the 80/100W bulbs that were in the Chim. They were much less bright than what was originally in. Not slagging the supplier, they offered good service and other parts I got from them were good, but I would go for Phillips bulbs instead.
rev-erend said:
Guess if you are thinking of this it might be worth further investigations :
From the DfT:
December 2006
Aftermarket HID headlamps
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
Very nice quote, It shows nice and clearly that retrofit HID bulbs are illegal.From the DfT:
December 2006
Aftermarket HID headlamps
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
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