help: "ideas" to avoid penalty points
Discussion
can anyone offer any advice/ideas.
I've just rec'd an NIP (3 days after offence) from South Wales Police for doing 46 in a 30.
I can't remember seeing any camera at the side of the road.
other than asking for the photos, calaibration certs etc....are there any other "options" to try and get out of it ?........e.g someone else driving...who lives in Timbucktoo ?
cheers
Bob
www.prycewoodrow.co.uk Solicitors specialising in motoring law. Having said which you're not going to get out of this one in a hurry unless you've got very real grounds to do so. Basically either: It wasn't you driving, you couldn't possibly have been there or you've got 6 points already and 6 more would cause a ban and ruin your business (lots of people try this you're going to get very short shrift if it's not true (including the possibility of being found in contempt). You've rather shot yourself in the foot by your comments on here which strongly suggest you're looking for an excuse 
I've asked my dad (JP) about this before. The bit about calibration is cobblers. You might be able to suggest reasonable doubt (thereby increasing the onus on the police to provide evidence) but it in no way invalidates the NIP. ACPO provides guidance, rather than hard and fast rules, on calibration...
Put your hands up, take the fine and the points and don't pi$$ the magistrates about. Very much not worth it
I am not a qualified solicitor, the above is based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience. I do not make any warranties, express or implied, as to the results that might be obtained from the use of this information. Neither shall I be liable for the misuse of this information, nor any third-party claims or losses of any nature including, but not limited to, lost finances, punitive or consequential damages.
Deadly serious about the above. If you decide to try a 'dodge' on your head be it.
I've asked my dad (JP) about this before. The bit about calibration is cobblers. You might be able to suggest reasonable doubt (thereby increasing the onus on the police to provide evidence) but it in no way invalidates the NIP. ACPO provides guidance, rather than hard and fast rules, on calibration...
Put your hands up, take the fine and the points and don't pi$$ the magistrates about. Very much not worth it
I am not a qualified solicitor, the above is based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience. I do not make any warranties, express or implied, as to the results that might be obtained from the use of this information. Neither shall I be liable for the misuse of this information, nor any third-party claims or losses of any nature including, but not limited to, lost finances, punitive or consequential damages.
Deadly serious about the above. If you decide to try a 'dodge' on your head be it.
Bob,
it was most likely a scumbag operated Camera Enforcement Unit.
These are placed at locations chosen by the local council, and Plod arranges it accordingly. Often manned by a civvie. Fcuk-wits.
I am currently mitigating against my FPN, and I have requested a court hearing. However, I was only doing 50 in a 40, and my mitigation is damn good.
If you had a very very good reason for doing that speed, then you WILL get a fair(ish) hearing.
On the other hand, 16mph over the top is quite a lot, so maybe if offered the 3 points + 60 squid, you'd better take it.
Your call, but don't listen to SOME of these guys here - a few of them are coppers, and they automatically tell you to 'fess up and pay the fine.
If you really want to get technical, check to see if that road was recently re-graded to 30mph. If it was not done in accordance to the official guidelines, it may not be legal. Therefore the old limit applies.
If any one wants to talk about speeding, feel free to email me.
Carl
PS, latest "trick" being to attach a waterproof loudspeaker to the back of your plate, and play noise through it. This buggers up the signal to the radar unit...
it was most likely a scumbag operated Camera Enforcement Unit.
These are placed at locations chosen by the local council, and Plod arranges it accordingly. Often manned by a civvie. Fcuk-wits.
I am currently mitigating against my FPN, and I have requested a court hearing. However, I was only doing 50 in a 40, and my mitigation is damn good.
If you had a very very good reason for doing that speed, then you WILL get a fair(ish) hearing.
On the other hand, 16mph over the top is quite a lot, so maybe if offered the 3 points + 60 squid, you'd better take it.
Your call, but don't listen to SOME of these guys here - a few of them are coppers, and they automatically tell you to 'fess up and pay the fine.
If you really want to get technical, check to see if that road was recently re-graded to 30mph. If it was not done in accordance to the official guidelines, it may not be legal. Therefore the old limit applies.
If any one wants to talk about speeding, feel free to email me.
Carl
PS, latest "trick" being to attach a waterproof loudspeaker to the back of your plate, and play noise through it. This buggers up the signal to the radar unit...
Bob I have had 5 NIPs in the last 2 years with only one successful persecution. In every case asking for photographs and for the clarification of evidence results in 2 things. One the buggering up of the fixed penalty system which is designed to reduce paperwork and increase the number of convictions. Two, often calling bluff results in no further action. if you feel agrieved but you are bang to rights then you are going to get three points eventually but as long as you dont tell lies or lose it, a bit of judicial digging does no harm. Its your call, good luck and merry Christmas.
quote:
PS, latest "trick" being to attach a waterproof loudspeaker to the back of your plate, and play noise through it. This buggers up the signal to the radar unit...
Carl, just a quick q bout this one. I was under the impresssion that the in 'some' tests radar guns recorded speeds regularly in excess of 100mph when aimed at a speaker playing loud music?? wonder what tunes get the highest readings?
Also the speaker need not be outside the car as the radar would pass through the glass (rear heaters depending) and maybe pick up from the speakers on the back shelf ??
Bet they didnt test that at TRL when they certified the gatso for use in the uk...
merry xmas to all... Martin
dunno what music it was, but imagine getting the camera to record your speed as 60mph, when infact you're doing 30...
Then when you ask for the photo's, they clearly show you WERE doing 30, case dismissed, and another nail in the Gatso coffin.
If enough gatso's were discredited, they'd ALL have to be reviewed and/or taken down.
Now that's a thought. "Discredit a Gatso" campaign.
Stay Fast ! Carl
Then when you ask for the photo's, they clearly show you WERE doing 30, case dismissed, and another nail in the Gatso coffin.
If enough gatso's were discredited, they'd ALL have to be reviewed and/or taken down.
Now that's a thought. "Discredit a Gatso" campaign.
Stay Fast ! Carl
quote:
The other thing, is that if you try to fight a "minor" speeding offence, and it doesn't go your way, you'll end up with a much bigger fine, and more points than you would have got in the first place.
Without wanting to sound boring, perhaps we should just slow down the pace a little, and then the police could concentrate on catching "real criminals".
Bit like the queens speach really! Didn't realise that the offense of getting stroppy with green bastards now resulted in extra points cos you don't agree. As for the second paragraph what should we slow down to? The police have never been able to catch real criminals generally not intelligent enough. In the human state they are just a bit above attendants helpers and loaders.
I have never got caught by a police for speeding or running a red light. But I was caught by cameras 3 times. One in which I did a 85 mph on a 35 miles speed limit. The other two was running a red light. All in which I have never got points for, only had to pay $75.00 each. By the way, I live in the state of DC.
Find a freind on the Isle of Man, and register your car there with him.
1) You don't have to have an MOT (although for safety reasons I think it's best to)
2) You only pay about £30 road tax.
3) You get an Isle of man plate, and the car isnt registered on the DVLAs computer, so the GATSOs can snap away all they want.
A friend of mines done it.
Dave.
Edited by Dave_H on Wednesday 26th December 17:12
1) You don't have to have an MOT (although for safety reasons I think it's best to)
2) You only pay about £30 road tax.
3) You get an Isle of man plate, and the car isnt registered on the DVLAs computer, so the GATSOs can snap away all they want.
A friend of mines done it.
Dave.
Edited by Dave_H on Wednesday 26th December 17:12
why do we keep hearing about this "if you fight it, it makes it worse" culture?
Surely if you have GENUINE reasons to mitigate, they can't issue a harsher penalty? where's the justice in that? - sounds a bit of a witch hunt. "If you're a witch, you'll float, if you are innocent you drown. By the way, if you floated, we're gonna burn you anyway".
We HAVE to start taking EVERY *reasonable* case to court, this way we can fcuk-up the system a bit more.
Surely if you have GENUINE reasons to mitigate, they can't issue a harsher penalty? where's the justice in that? - sounds a bit of a witch hunt. "If you're a witch, you'll float, if you are innocent you drown. By the way, if you floated, we're gonna burn you anyway".
We HAVE to start taking EVERY *reasonable* case to court, this way we can fcuk-up the system a bit more.
quote:
why do we keep hearing about this "if you fight it, it makes it worse" culture?
Surely if you have GENUINE reasons to mitigate, they can't issue a harsher penalty? where's the justice in that? - sounds a bit of a witch hunt. "If you're a witch, you'll float, if you are innocent you drown. By the way, if you floated, we're gonna burn you anyway".
We HAVE to start taking EVERY *reasonable* case to court, this way we can fcuk-up the system a bit more.
Carl you put it so much better than me I could not agree more. particularly the ever every every everry bit remember it !!!!!!!!
quote:
why do we keep hearing about this "if you fight it, it makes it worse" culture?
We HAVE to start taking EVERY *reasonable* case to court, this way we can fcuk-up the system a bit more.
you don't even have to do that. If the police has the right to use cameras et al., you have the right to question their proofs. Get them to prove their allegations. Ask for photos. Gatso are not infallible. Use all your rights to question the allegations. You have a RIGHT to do this!!! Don't just pay up. Let them drown in the paperwork.
Don't anyone come back to me saying this prevents the police doing more serious work. My impression is that they've given up on most things anyway, that they are now an extension of Inland Revenue, and furthermore NOTHING justifies them pursuing unsafe convictions for speeding and endangering the livelihoods of law-abiding citizens.
Rgds, WalterU
Edited by WalterU on Thursday 27th December 12:25
quote:
Surely if you have GENUINE reasons to mitigate, they can't issue a harsher penalty? where's the justice in that? - sounds a bit of a witch hunt. "If you're a witch, you'll float, if you are innocent you drown. By the way, if you floated, we're gonna burn you anyway".
Got it in one.
The problem is that you might think that the mitigation is reasonable-but they might not
If the case goes up before the magistrates their guidelines tend to result in them giving more points and a higher fine than would have resulted from just accepting 3 and £60. So yes, it's a witch hunt. If you did it just cough up and keep your head down. The -bugger up the criminal justice system by taking everything to court- approach will just result in higher penalties to discourage this... We're screwed, basically. Happy New Year one and all...
Edited by jaydee on Thursday 27th December 13:09
The justice susyem is pants!
To start with im pissed off with people saying its bad to take all these cases to court and screw the system.
maximum respect to the nonegreen on those 'no further actions'. Im operating in a similar way and got a case of 100mph on motorway caught by laser and photos dropped on the morning of the case.
To cook this up follow the recipe below:
ignore all nips in post and wait for summons to reg driver 6 months later. Dont even bother signing the appropriate forms in the summons but write a polite letter to mr or misses justice dogs body at plod house explaining never got a nip cause foot and mouth interupted the post which it did to some extent and swear blind u dont know who driving car as photos are blurred. tell them you will have a solicitor and will fight to death! Get called to court but there pants turn brown that morning and they drop the case. note: you can take them for loss of earnings compensation if they loose!!!!
I've got another one of these recipes thats in the mixing bowl as we speak. Note: using terms such as recipes, mixing bowl and cooking to confuse all the scum insiders who are blatently infiltrating this message board and trying to persuade people to take the rap. Why the feck should anyone take points lying down. fight for what you believe in. How is doing 100 -200 mph on a motorway in the RI|GHT conditions harming anybody apart maybe from the environment. I have 70-80 hp in my flymo and can top 100 but i would have no quarms in doing well over 150 on a almost completely empty motorway. The cars that do this sort of speed are more than capable of being driven by pensioners at this speed!
rant over
p.s I dont condone drink driving!
So leave the car at home on new years!
To start with im pissed off with people saying its bad to take all these cases to court and screw the system.
maximum respect to the nonegreen on those 'no further actions'. Im operating in a similar way and got a case of 100mph on motorway caught by laser and photos dropped on the morning of the case.
To cook this up follow the recipe below:
ignore all nips in post and wait for summons to reg driver 6 months later. Dont even bother signing the appropriate forms in the summons but write a polite letter to mr or misses justice dogs body at plod house explaining never got a nip cause foot and mouth interupted the post which it did to some extent and swear blind u dont know who driving car as photos are blurred. tell them you will have a solicitor and will fight to death! Get called to court but there pants turn brown that morning and they drop the case. note: you can take them for loss of earnings compensation if they loose!!!!
I've got another one of these recipes thats in the mixing bowl as we speak. Note: using terms such as recipes, mixing bowl and cooking to confuse all the scum insiders who are blatently infiltrating this message board and trying to persuade people to take the rap. Why the feck should anyone take points lying down. fight for what you believe in. How is doing 100 -200 mph on a motorway in the RI|GHT conditions harming anybody apart maybe from the environment. I have 70-80 hp in my flymo and can top 100 but i would have no quarms in doing well over 150 on a almost completely empty motorway. The cars that do this sort of speed are more than capable of being driven by pensioners at this speed!
rant over
p.s I dont condone drink driving!
So leave the car at home on new years!
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