help with police summons
Discussion
Hi I am hoping some of you knowledgeable lot out there will be able to offer some advise on a recent incident involving my brothers friend. He was in a car in september accompining his friend to see his mum who lives about 10 miles away. On the way home they were driving down the motorway when the car started to smoke so they pulled over to the hard shoulder to look for an orange telephone to dial for help. He and is friend left the car and started to walk along the hard shoulder about 5 minutes into the walk they were approched by police in a range rover who signalled for them to come over to talk to them. On the way to the car the lad who was driving started to plead to my brothers friend to say he had been driving if the police asked as he had a criminal record and did not want to get in any more trouble for his car breaking down. My brothers friend explained he didnt have a licence and couldnt say this at which point the other lad said they wouldnt even ask him for this and would probably just be checking to see what the problem was and whether help was on its way.
The police asked both of them to get in thier car and then asked the two of them who the car belonged to the driver said himself but that my brothers friend had been driving the vehicle when they noticed smoke and had to stop. The police asked was this true and been nieve and wanting to help his friend said yes. The police then asked him for a licence and insurance at which point my brothers friend broke down and admitted he didnt have oeither.
The police then took his details (They never at any point asked for the owners details) and escorted them off the motorway saying that as no insurance was held for the vehicle it would be towed away and offer back with storage fees or crushed.
After the police had left my brothers friend asked why the driver hadnt admitted that he was driving and what would happen to him now as he had led the police to belive he had been driving. The friend advised nothing it happened all the time and really the police just wanted to get rid of the vehicle from the motorway, he also admited he had no licence and shouldnt have been driving. At this point my brothers friend went balastic and said if he had of relaised this he would have never taken the blame.
Since the incident my brothers friend has not spoken to the driver and assumed that there would be nothing else to come through as the police would relaise that the driver was the registered keeper (silly I know).
My question here is that yesterday a summons arrived for my brothers friend to attend court on the basis of no driving licence or insurance. he was wondering what would happen if he were to admit the truth? Would he be sentenced for perveting the course of justice or much worse? i only ask because you guys were so helpful with your knowldege in the past that i though you may be able to offer me some advice i can pass on.
Sorry for the long post but i though id try and get as many facts in as possible.
The police asked both of them to get in thier car and then asked the two of them who the car belonged to the driver said himself but that my brothers friend had been driving the vehicle when they noticed smoke and had to stop. The police asked was this true and been nieve and wanting to help his friend said yes. The police then asked him for a licence and insurance at which point my brothers friend broke down and admitted he didnt have oeither.
The police then took his details (They never at any point asked for the owners details) and escorted them off the motorway saying that as no insurance was held for the vehicle it would be towed away and offer back with storage fees or crushed.
After the police had left my brothers friend asked why the driver hadnt admitted that he was driving and what would happen to him now as he had led the police to belive he had been driving. The friend advised nothing it happened all the time and really the police just wanted to get rid of the vehicle from the motorway, he also admited he had no licence and shouldnt have been driving. At this point my brothers friend went balastic and said if he had of relaised this he would have never taken the blame.
Since the incident my brothers friend has not spoken to the driver and assumed that there would be nothing else to come through as the police would relaise that the driver was the registered keeper (silly I know).
My question here is that yesterday a summons arrived for my brothers friend to attend court on the basis of no driving licence or insurance. he was wondering what would happen if he were to admit the truth? Would he be sentenced for perveting the course of justice or much worse? i only ask because you guys were so helpful with your knowldege in the past that i though you may be able to offer me some advice i can pass on.
Sorry for the long post but i though id try and get as many facts in as possible.
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
If your brother's friend tells the truth in court, i.e. that he wasn't driving at all, he may well be faced with a further charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Not sure which is worse, this or the original charge of driving without insurance etc.
Not good news I'm afraid.
If your brother's friend tells the truth in court, i.e. that he wasn't driving at all, he may well be faced with a further charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Not sure which is worse, this or the original charge of driving without insurance etc.
Not good news I'm afraid.
What you're saying I believe is that your brothers friend has taken the wrap for the vehicle and the owner and driver has got away without any further action because your brothers friend lied.
Your brothers friend has two choices.
1. Say nothing and accept the court sentence for the offences summonsed.
2. Go to the police and tell them the truth. Expect to get arrested and interviewed on suspicion of perverting the course of justice and wasting police time and hope that he is eligible for a caution. Perverting the course of Justice is a DPP file. That means it has to go to the DPP for permission to prosecute. This would be on the basis of public interest to proceed. Whatever he does, he is in the doodoo.
My advice is to go and confess as it is good for the soul!
Your brothers friend has two choices.
1. Say nothing and accept the court sentence for the offences summonsed.
2. Go to the police and tell them the truth. Expect to get arrested and interviewed on suspicion of perverting the course of justice and wasting police time and hope that he is eligible for a caution. Perverting the course of Justice is a DPP file. That means it has to go to the DPP for permission to prosecute. This would be on the basis of public interest to proceed. Whatever he does, he is in the doodoo.
My advice is to go and confess as it is good for the soul!
Edited by Mg6b on Wednesday 23 January 22:39
get in touch with the police and arrange to go in and make a statement. Truth, and nothing but the truth. Mag will see this. If if tells the truth whip will shine through as if won't deviated when questioned. Because, the truth is the truth. Explain it exactly. Don't say but, if, and, just the simple facts.
TBH I'm not sure after what happedned after they left the motorway I decided to ask on here due to the fact that you were all so helpful in the past when i needed some advice for my brother i thought id see which was the best option for his mate to take. He's 21 with no criminal record and although he is devastaded he accepts the fact that lying in the first place was an extremley silly thing to do. i have told him that he definatley wont get away with such a serious crime even if its just a fine. I think at the end of the day his main concern is getting a criminal record and when it come to wether he will get one I really dont know. I am only guessing but i assume he'll get one which ever way he pleads is that right?
looks like your brother's friend was scammed. Get down to police station ASAP. Make sure the police know your bro's friend was intimidated by the original driver and thought he had no option but to lie. The fact he hasnt got a record should help.
a ques to bib - would they have checked the actual driver's details (PNC) even though they thought he was a passanger?
a ques to bib - would they have checked the actual driver's details (PNC) even though they thought he was a passanger?
sabina1986 said:
Hi I am hoping some of you knowledgeable lot out there will be able to offer some advise on a recent incident involving my brothers friend. He was in a car in september accompining his friend to see his mum who lives about 10 miles away. On the way home they were driving down the motorway when the car started to smoke so they pulled over to the hard shoulder to look for an orange telephone to dial for help. He and is friend left the car and started to walk along the hard shoulder about 5 minutes into the walk they were approched by police in a range rover who signalled for them to come over to talk to them. On the way to the car the lad who was driving started to plead to my brothers friend to say he had been driving if the police asked as he had a criminal record and did not want to get in any more trouble for his car breaking down. My brothers friend explained he didnt have a licence and couldnt say this at which point the other lad said they wouldnt even ask him for this and would probably just be checking to see what the problem was and whether help was on its way.
The police asked both of them to get in thier car and then asked the two of them who the car belonged to the driver said himself but that my brothers friend had been driving the vehicle when they noticed smoke and had to stop. The police asked was this true and been nieve and wanting to help his friend said yes. The police then asked him for a licence and insurance at which point my brothers friend broke down and admitted he didnt have oeither.
The police then took his details (They never at any point asked for the owners details) and escorted them off the motorway saying that as no insurance was held for the vehicle it would be towed away and offer back with storage fees or crushed.
After the police had left my brothers friend asked why the driver hadnt admitted that he was driving and what would happen to him now as he had led the police to belive he had been driving. The friend advised nothing it happened all the time and really the police just wanted to get rid of the vehicle from the motorway, he also admited he had no licence and shouldnt have been driving. At this point my brothers friend went balastic and said if he had of relaised this he would have never taken the blame.
Since the incident my brothers friend has not spoken to the driver and assumed that there would be nothing else to come through as the police would relaise that the driver was the registered keeper (silly I know).
My question here is that yesterday a summons arrived for my brothers friend to attend court on the basis of no driving licence or insurance. he was wondering what would happen if he were to admit the truth? Would he be sentenced for perveting the course of justice or much worse? i only ask because you guys were so helpful with your knowldege in the past that i though you may be able to offer me some advice i can pass on.
Sorry for the long post but i though id try and get as many facts in as possible.
SabinaThe police asked both of them to get in thier car and then asked the two of them who the car belonged to the driver said himself but that my brothers friend had been driving the vehicle when they noticed smoke and had to stop. The police asked was this true and been nieve and wanting to help his friend said yes. The police then asked him for a licence and insurance at which point my brothers friend broke down and admitted he didnt have oeither.
The police then took his details (They never at any point asked for the owners details) and escorted them off the motorway saying that as no insurance was held for the vehicle it would be towed away and offer back with storage fees or crushed.
After the police had left my brothers friend asked why the driver hadnt admitted that he was driving and what would happen to him now as he had led the police to belive he had been driving. The friend advised nothing it happened all the time and really the police just wanted to get rid of the vehicle from the motorway, he also admited he had no licence and shouldnt have been driving. At this point my brothers friend went balastic and said if he had of relaised this he would have never taken the blame.
Since the incident my brothers friend has not spoken to the driver and assumed that there would be nothing else to come through as the police would relaise that the driver was the registered keeper (silly I know).
My question here is that yesterday a summons arrived for my brothers friend to attend court on the basis of no driving licence or insurance. he was wondering what would happen if he were to admit the truth? Would he be sentenced for perveting the course of justice or much worse? i only ask because you guys were so helpful with your knowldege in the past that i though you may be able to offer me some advice i can pass on.
Sorry for the long post but i though id try and get as many facts in as possible.
First of all hello from another sand grown 'un. I am ex King Edwards........
Now to business. Your "brother's friend" is in very serious trouble indeed. As in prison sort of trouble.
He has two options.
1. Continue to lie, and take the punishment which is coming for the motoring offence which he didn't commit, but to which he admitted. This gets him in more and more trouble potentially if he is rumbled. He most certainly will have committed the offence of Perverting the Course of Justice. A prison sentence is a very real probability if he gets found out. Plenty of nice middle class people are in prison at present for dodging speeding fines by lying about who was driving.
2. Go to the police, and tell ALL now. He should speak to a solicitor before he does this, and take one with him when he goes to the station. He will still have committed the offence of Attempting to Pervert etc etc but it will be in his favour that he confessed. He is still in serious trouble though, and could well still be jailed if the police decide to charge him.
I spent five years as a criminal defence barrister, and one golden rule is that you NEVER EVER LIE TO THE POLICE OR THE COURTS. EVER. EVER. EVER.
So, he neds to see a solicitor NOW and make his decision about whether to tell the truth now and hope that they show some mercy, or whether to compound the risk, take a punishment for an offence he didn't commit, and risk a lengthy jail term if he ever gets found out.
And tell him from me not to be such a complete dickhead in future.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Thursday 24th January 11:58
sabina1986 said:
Sabina
First of all hello from another sand grown 'un. I am ex King Edwards........
Hello firstly I went to hodgson so not as posh as king edwards im affraid but thank you for all your advice my next question is what are the maxium sentences for each of these crimes?
thanks again
No insurance and licence is probably points and a fine.First of all hello from another sand grown 'un. I am ex King Edwards........
Hello firstly I went to hodgson so not as posh as king edwards im affraid but thank you for all your advice my next question is what are the maxium sentences for each of these crimes?
thanks again
Perverting the Course of Justice is a very serious offence and can attract up to twenty years in prison. It's likely that for something like this it would be six months in prison (if you're unlucky) and a VERY long community service order (if you're lucky.)
Vesuvius 996 said:
sabina1986 said:
Sabina
First of all hello from another sand grown 'un. I am ex King Edwards........
Hello firstly I went to hodgson so not as posh as king edwards im affraid but thank you for all your advice my next question is what are the maxium sentences for each of these crimes?
thanks again
No insurance and licence is probably points and a fine.First of all hello from another sand grown 'un. I am ex King Edwards........
Hello firstly I went to hodgson so not as posh as king edwards im affraid but thank you for all your advice my next question is what are the maxium sentences for each of these crimes?
thanks again
Perverting the Course of Justice is a very serious offence and can attract up to twenty years in prison. It's likely that for something like this it would be six months in prison (if you're unlucky) and a VERY long community service order (if you're lucky.)
Mgb6b has given the absolute right advice. Tell him to go immediately to the police and give a full statement regarding what has happened, apologising for wasting their time, telling the whole truth (without ifs, buts and I can't remembers!). Do this immediately. I would put good money on him getting a bollocking or possibly a caution from the police for wasting their time. If he shows immediate remorse, assists the police in their enquiries and is generally contrite then he may well be okay.
The relevant bit of the code is "giving false information, or agreeing to give false information, to the police with a view to frustrating a police inquiry; for example, lying as to who was driving when a road traffic accident occurred; "
Do it before the NIP arrives. Do it today.
Just agreeing with the majority, get him to get down to the Police station ASAP and make a statement about what actually happened.
If he was put under duress to lie and comes across as easily led, maybe the CPS might look upon things lightly and the courts, if it got that far, impose a (relatively) light penalty.
What might get sticky is when the guy who was actually driving inevitably says he was not, and that the man who confessed is just changing his story now a summons has arrived.
It's a rock and a hard place, that's for sure. Prosecuted for two fairly serious driving offences, or potentially prosecuted for another serious offence.
If he was put under duress to lie and comes across as easily led, maybe the CPS might look upon things lightly and the courts, if it got that far, impose a (relatively) light penalty.
What might get sticky is when the guy who was actually driving inevitably says he was not, and that the man who confessed is just changing his story now a summons has arrived.
It's a rock and a hard place, that's for sure. Prosecuted for two fairly serious driving offences, or potentially prosecuted for another serious offence.
10 Pence Short said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
Bing o said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
NEVER EVER LIE TO THE POLICE OR THE COURTS. EVER. EVER. EVER.
Unless you are a lawyer...A barrister who lies to a court is treated MUCH more severely.
Seriously, presenting you client's case is one thing, but actually saying you filed a document when you didn't would land a lawyer in prison, easy.
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