Where do GTS owners stand with number plate law????
Discussion
I was just on my way back from dropping my daughter off at nursery this morning when all of a sudden, blue lights behind me. I was doing about 25 miles per hour through a busy town at the time. The car is fine, taxed, MOT'd, insured as you'd expect. The only thing I had not done was indicate to leave the last roundabout I had used as some nob in a Saxo cut me up.
I pulled over and apologized for the lack of indication to which the officer replied "It's nothing to do with that anyway". Apparently, the number plates on my car are illegal. The size and space of the letters is wrong.
Now I've had the car since April 2006 and I know the original owner had it new in '99. The plates still have HSV UK and the old phone number on them for gods sake so have never been changed.
Now if they were illegal, why have I never had trouble on recent MOTs? I know for a fact the letters are correctly sized, spaced and in Std form.
Anyway, I was charged and told I must have them changed and a form stamped at an MOT inspection office for return to the cops. I asked the officer what he wanted me to do as the plates fill the original gaps for Aussie plates completely and there is no room for larger ones. To this he replied, they're illegal and it's not up to him how I fix the problem. If not done in 21 days then things will become more serious.
Also, at first I was told that the plate size, letters and spacing are wrong. Then he said the letters were spaced and sized correctly but the plate size isn't correct and that is the problem yet my "ticket" says the problem is letter size and spacing with no mention of plate size.
Is it me, or is this all a bit pathetic. There must be a drive on boy racer style italic lettering on or something as the other officer readily produced a two page A4 document with all the rules and regs for me to take away. If the plate is clean, readable, correctly manufactured and with correctly spaced, styled and sized writing then what is the problem?
Has anybody else had issues like this or know exactly where we stand? I'm tempted to do nothing and see them in court. I will have to research and get the exact facts before I do any more.
Infuriating to say the least!
You can see the current front plate if you click to look at my profile. What's wrong with that I ask you?
www.pistonheads.com/pics/members/61491-car.jpg
I pulled over and apologized for the lack of indication to which the officer replied "It's nothing to do with that anyway". Apparently, the number plates on my car are illegal. The size and space of the letters is wrong.
Now I've had the car since April 2006 and I know the original owner had it new in '99. The plates still have HSV UK and the old phone number on them for gods sake so have never been changed.
Now if they were illegal, why have I never had trouble on recent MOTs? I know for a fact the letters are correctly sized, spaced and in Std form.
Anyway, I was charged and told I must have them changed and a form stamped at an MOT inspection office for return to the cops. I asked the officer what he wanted me to do as the plates fill the original gaps for Aussie plates completely and there is no room for larger ones. To this he replied, they're illegal and it's not up to him how I fix the problem. If not done in 21 days then things will become more serious.
Also, at first I was told that the plate size, letters and spacing are wrong. Then he said the letters were spaced and sized correctly but the plate size isn't correct and that is the problem yet my "ticket" says the problem is letter size and spacing with no mention of plate size.
Is it me, or is this all a bit pathetic. There must be a drive on boy racer style italic lettering on or something as the other officer readily produced a two page A4 document with all the rules and regs for me to take away. If the plate is clean, readable, correctly manufactured and with correctly spaced, styled and sized writing then what is the problem?
Has anybody else had issues like this or know exactly where we stand? I'm tempted to do nothing and see them in court. I will have to research and get the exact facts before I do any more.
Infuriating to say the least!
You can see the current front plate if you click to look at my profile. What's wrong with that I ask you?
www.pistonheads.com/pics/members/61491-car.jpg
Edited by woody vt on Thursday 31st January 15:12
Hi
Have a look at this
[url]www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk/reg.pdf[url]
Our cars are classified as imports, if the size and the spacing of the letters comply then you should be fine. You will need to get it checked though at a MOT station as you have a ticket.
Have a look at this
[url]www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk/reg.pdf[url]
Our cars are classified as imports, if the size and the spacing of the letters comply then you should be fine. You will need to get it checked though at a MOT station as you have a ticket.
Island boy HSV said:
Hi
Have a look at this
[url]http://www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk/reg.pdf[url]
Our cars are classified as imports, if the size and the spacing of the letters comply then you should be fine. You will need to get it checked though at a MOT station as you have a ticket.
what i said but more helpfullHave a look at this
[url]http://www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk/reg.pdf[url]
Our cars are classified as imports, if the size and the spacing of the letters comply then you should be fine. You will need to get it checked though at a MOT station as you have a ticket.
When did HSV UK cease trading? Was it Pre 2001? I'm fairly sure it was.
Just went and measured up to make sure. I had read the article on plates before at the drivers club which is why I was fairly confident the plates were OK.
This what DVLA Says:
Display of Vehicle Registration Marks on Imported Vehicles
(which have a restricted space for a standard sized number plate)
Certain imported vehicles may be permitted to display number plates with smaller characters if:
Current Requirements on the Display of Number Plates, English Version
●
The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
● The vehicle's construction/design cannot accomodate standard size number plates
Specifications for smaller sized plates (for certain imported vehicles)
Character Height 64mm
Character Width 44mm
Character Stroke 10mm
Space between characters 10mm
Mine are exactly as above but 8.5mm space on lettering.
Do I really need to have them remade for the sake of 1.5mm?
Just went and measured up to make sure. I had read the article on plates before at the drivers club which is why I was fairly confident the plates were OK.
This what DVLA Says:
Display of Vehicle Registration Marks on Imported Vehicles
(which have a restricted space for a standard sized number plate)
Certain imported vehicles may be permitted to display number plates with smaller characters if:
Current Requirements on the Display of Number Plates, English Version
●
The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
● The vehicle's construction/design cannot accomodate standard size number plates
Specifications for smaller sized plates (for certain imported vehicles)
Character Height 64mm
Character Width 44mm
Character Stroke 10mm
Space between characters 10mm
Mine are exactly as above but 8.5mm space on lettering.
Do I really need to have them remade for the sake of 1.5mm?
Edited by woody vt on Thursday 31st January 10:05
Well my 'ro is a UK reg'd car and runs the plate you see in the pic below:-
My car has been used as you see it above at road safety events all around Northern Ireland while I was still living there, and the plate in particular was given the all clear by 3 different traffic cops including Chief Wiggum, why 3 I hear you ask - as I used to wind one of the group up by putting a different plate on my old Astra Coupe every time I appeared down at the local HQ for a laugh, and he would always appear at the end of whichever meeting I was in there for to say that I was in for a fixed penalty if I didn't change them - took him 4 or 5 times of me doing this before he realised it was all to wind him up (the rest of the lads knew all about it) - Velcro'd on plates = 2 second switch
My car has been used as you see it above at road safety events all around Northern Ireland while I was still living there, and the plate in particular was given the all clear by 3 different traffic cops including Chief Wiggum, why 3 I hear you ask - as I used to wind one of the group up by putting a different plate on my old Astra Coupe every time I appeared down at the local HQ for a laugh, and he would always appear at the end of whichever meeting I was in there for to say that I was in for a fixed penalty if I didn't change them - took him 4 or 5 times of me doing this before he realised it was all to wind him up (the rest of the lads knew all about it) - Velcro'd on plates = 2 second switch
I have a standard rear plate and a small front plate on my CV8 as the front recess is too small for a full sized plate. It matches the regs for an import with insufficient space for a full sized plate as detailed in the pdf linked above. I have a printout of it my glovebox for the day if/when I get pulled.
The clause to highlight is:
Certain imported vehicles may be permitted to display number plates with smaller characters if:
- The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
- The vehicle's construction/design cannot accommodate standard size number plates
In the case of a CV8 with small front recess I should be able to argue the case for a smaller front plate provided the font and spacing is in line with the regs (I think mine is 1 or 2mm out in a couple of places but it's fulled legible). If they do get a ruler out then I guess I'll have to have one made up to the letter of the law.
I believe there is currently a crackdown on dodgy numberplates so that might be why you were singled out. Unfortunately it seems some police officers aren't fully aware of the legislation.
The clause to highlight is:
Certain imported vehicles may be permitted to display number plates with smaller characters if:
- The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
- The vehicle's construction/design cannot accommodate standard size number plates
In the case of a CV8 with small front recess I should be able to argue the case for a smaller front plate provided the font and spacing is in line with the regs (I think mine is 1 or 2mm out in a couple of places but it's fulled legible). If they do get a ruler out then I guess I'll have to have one made up to the letter of the law.
I believe there is currently a crackdown on dodgy numberplates so that might be why you were singled out. Unfortunately it seems some police officers aren't fully aware of the legislation.
Been to the cop shop. Argued the toss and produced aforementioned legislation from DVLA. Accused of being deliberately argumentative over a minor issue even though I was trying to reason with them (in what I thought was a calm manner).
Outcome...Spotty 21 year old plod doesn't like being shown that there are varying rules for imports that he's not aware of. Tantrum ensues and I'm told 1.5mm or not - Change them or get fined.
£35 for what???
Owners be warned! It's coming to that time of year when annual figures are due in. Time for the soft targets methinks.
Outcome...Spotty 21 year old plod doesn't like being shown that there are varying rules for imports that he's not aware of. Tantrum ensues and I'm told 1.5mm or not - Change them or get fined.
£35 for what???
Owners be warned! It's coming to that time of year when annual figures are due in. Time for the soft targets methinks.
Edited by woody vt on Thursday 31st January 13:23
mackie1 said:
I have a standard rear plate and a small front plate on my CV8 as the front recess is too small for a full sized plate. It matches the regs for an import with insufficient space for a full sized plate as detailed in the pdf linked above. I have a printout of it my glovebox for the day if/when I get pulled.
The clause to highlight is:
Certain imported vehicles may be permitted to display number plates with smaller characters if:
- The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
- The vehicle's construction/design cannot accommodate standard size number plates
In the case of a CV8 with small front recess I should be able to argue the case for a smaller front plate provided the font and spacing is in line with the regs (I think mine is 1 or 2mm out in a couple of places but it's fulled legible). If they do get a ruler out then I guess I'll have to have one made up to the letter of the law.
I believe there is currently a crackdown on dodgy numberplates so that might be why you were singled out. Unfortunately it seems some police officers aren't fully aware of the legislation.
The clause to highlight is:
Certain imported vehicles may be permitted to display number plates with smaller characters if:
- The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
- The vehicle's construction/design cannot accommodate standard size number plates
In the case of a CV8 with small front recess I should be able to argue the case for a smaller front plate provided the font and spacing is in line with the regs (I think mine is 1 or 2mm out in a couple of places but it's fulled legible). If they do get a ruler out then I guess I'll have to have one made up to the letter of the law.
I believe there is currently a crackdown on dodgy numberplates so that might be why you were singled out. Unfortunately it seems some police officers aren't fully aware of the legislation.
Exactly same for me. I too keep a printout of the regs in the glove box, and a full size front plate in the boot to demonstrate the "won't fit" situation.
Ordered a new front import style 5 letter plate (which is legal but actually smaller than the present one) and new rear plate Std UK size as I may as well go ahead and fit the Monaro lights and boot panel I've had for a while.
Such is life I guess.
It's not the cost or the actual changing of the plates that bothers me but the attitude and pettiness of the officers involved. You'd think I was driving like a maniac by the way they dealt with it.
Will be keeping that extract from the DVLA in the car from now on too!
Rant over but again, be warned all those with non Brit std plates.
Cheers for the help and input guys.
Such is life I guess.
It's not the cost or the actual changing of the plates that bothers me but the attitude and pettiness of the officers involved. You'd think I was driving like a maniac by the way they dealt with it.
Will be keeping that extract from the DVLA in the car from now on too!
Rant over but again, be warned all those with non Brit std plates.
Cheers for the help and input guys.
woody vt said:
Been to the cop shop. Argued the toss and produced aforementioned legislation from DVLA. Accused of being deliberately argumentative over a minor issue even though I was trying to reason with them (in what I thought was a calm manner).
Outcome...Spotty 21 year old plod doesn't like being shown that there are varying rules for imports that he's not aware of. Tantrum ensues and I'm told 1.5mm or not - Change them or get fined.
£35 for what???
Owners be warned! It's coming to that time of year when annual figures are due in. Time for the soft targets methinks.
Ask to speak to the super on duty as you don't feel that your question was taken with the due respect it deserves, if spotty 21 year old doesn't sort this out he runs the risk of internal disciplinary action by not following the rules they're given to work by...Outcome...Spotty 21 year old plod doesn't like being shown that there are varying rules for imports that he's not aware of. Tantrum ensues and I'm told 1.5mm or not - Change them or get fined.
£35 for what???
Owners be warned! It's coming to that time of year when annual figures are due in. Time for the soft targets methinks.
Edited by woody vt on Thursday 31st January 13:23
Provided that the characters and spacings are correct, there is no specific size for the white bit. I am convinced that my small front plate is legal (it too, was shortened to fit into the space). I researched mine before I had it made. I have copied the below from the DVLA website, and providing that everything complies, then the plate is legal. If they wish to argue on size, then what about the larger fitted plate seen on the rear of many Rover 75's?.
Methinks your plod does not know the law - perhaps you need to get his sergeant to educate him.....
'All vehicles manufactured after 1.1.1973 must display number plates of
reflex-reflecting material, white at the front and yellow at the rear, the
characters must be black. In addition, the characters on number plates
purchased from 1.9.2001 will need to conform to the following specifications.
Character height 79 mm
Character width (except the figure 1 or letter I) 50 mm
Character stroke 14 mm
Space between characters 11 mm
Space between groups 33 mm
Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) 11 mm
Space between vertical lines 19 mm'
Methinks your plod does not know the law - perhaps you need to get his sergeant to educate him.....
'All vehicles manufactured after 1.1.1973 must display number plates of
reflex-reflecting material, white at the front and yellow at the rear, the
characters must be black. In addition, the characters on number plates
purchased from 1.9.2001 will need to conform to the following specifications.
Character height 79 mm
Character width (except the figure 1 or letter I) 50 mm
Character stroke 14 mm
Space between characters 11 mm
Space between groups 33 mm
Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) 11 mm
Space between vertical lines 19 mm'
as anyone got a link to the dvla section showing this info coz i can't find it on there site
ive been done three times for this so called offence so going to print it off and laminate it and keep it in the car so when the p*gs haven't got anything to do other than pray on the motorests i can get them in a head lock and make the tw*t read it rant over..
ive been done three times for this so called offence so going to print it off and laminate it and keep it in the car so when the p*gs haven't got anything to do other than pray on the motorests i can get them in a head lock and make the tw*t read it rant over..
had a similar situation when I was driving the GTS Coupe I imported from OZ. A young cozza with a quota to chase started to write me up for my front & back plates (identical sizes) but I took him to task about the whole small letters on imports etc etc and he chickened out. I said (with a friendly aussie smile) he didnt know wot he was talking about and should stick to chasing chavs. The plates I got (you can see the front one in my profile pic) were same letter size as the 2 row jap import style but I put all 5 characters on one row. To be fair I dont know if it actually is legal but I won that day.
bells V8 said:
as anyone got a link to the dvla section showing this info coz i can't find it on there site
ive been done three times for this so called offence so going to print it off and laminate it and keep it in the car so when the p*gs haven't got anything to do other than pray on the motorests i can get them in a head lock and make the tw*t read it rant over..
I reckon this is what you needive been done three times for this so called offence so going to print it off and laminate it and keep it in the car so when the p*gs haven't got anything to do other than pray on the motorests i can get them in a head lock and make the tw*t read it rant over..
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/displayo...
That's the one... particularly relevant is the section at the top of page 3. Essentially the lettering size is the same as the bike plates. So long as it is prominantly displayed and is clearly legible (i.e. not coated in mud etc) then there should be no problem.
Since these vehicles are only sold in Aus, NZ, USA and UK, I do not believe they have full EC type approval. Certainly the later model cars have the number plate position proud of the bumper, for those (like mine, 04 CV8) others a recess will not accomodate the full plate size.
Since these vehicles are only sold in Aus, NZ, USA and UK, I do not believe they have full EC type approval. Certainly the later model cars have the number plate position proud of the bumper, for those (like mine, 04 CV8) others a recess will not accomodate the full plate size.
Edited by Gas_Man on Friday 1st February 06:57
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