loss of respect?
Discussion
how do the police deal with the loss of public respect and confidence in thier abilities! it must surely make the job much harder when everyone is stinging from a speeding fine? when i were a lad we used to bugger off on sight of a copper! now they just stick around and mouth off! i do know how hard the job is!
v8 westy said:
how do the police deal with the loss of public respect and confidence in thier abilities! it must surely make the job much harder when everyone is stinging from a speeding fine? when i were a lad we used to bugger off on sight of a copper! now they just stick around and mouth off! i do know how hard the job is!
1) When I was a lad being in trouble with the police was a thing to be ashamed of. Now 2 million drivers a year are in trouble with the law. Ergo breaking the law is no longer percieved to be bad.
2) The police used to be on the side of the public and against criminals. Now they've chosen to criminalise everybody it's them against everybody.
Very strange policy decision for the rozzers to have made.
...and, to be fair, the chief rozzers who presumably decided to victimise the motorist hasn't got to face the public backlash.
Sadly the only people we can show our disatisfaction to are the pavement plod who are presumably interested in crime as opposed to pestering the safe motorist.[1]
[1] Camera vans are aimed at the safe motorist. If you're driving dangerously or illegally they aren't interested.
I have no respect for the police, it's not the bobbies fault, they work bl**dy hard, but how can you respect an institution that won't attend a burglary beacuse they're too busy catching speeders/understaffed, and then just say, sorry, but we'll never find the perpetrators because we won't bother looking.
What's the point of them these days? If I have any trouble in the future, I'll do my hardest to 'sort' it out myself first.
What's the point of them these days? If I have any trouble in the future, I'll do my hardest to 'sort' it out myself first.
MadCop and TonyRec do an excellent community policing job here and have really been the only reason I've toned down the views I developed after my farcical welsh points.
However the fact remains that my job and the jobs of my family are in jeapordy due to speeding enforcement while burglars are usually undetected.
If you shoplift you get a caution, if you get seriously involved in drugs you get support. If you speed you get the book thrown at you.
However the fact remains that my job and the jobs of my family are in jeapordy due to speeding enforcement while burglars are usually undetected.
If you shoplift you get a caution, if you get seriously involved in drugs you get support. If you speed you get the book thrown at you.
Can we just straighten this out:
1.Speeding IS NOT a criminal offence.
2.Very few Police (and I stress Police) resources are allocated to speeding and Traffic policing in general. However those few generate a very high public profile.
3.The Police are the 'delivery system' by which offenders are prosecuted. We 'sign off' having delivered and leave the matter in the hands of the CPS to prosecute at court. CPS are not a Police organisation, they are a Civilian institution, controlled at the highest level by the government.
Now that bit's sorted read on...
If you need to rant about Police Officers not attending higher priority incidents eg burglaries and the like, then it's not the frontline police officers that you should be tackling, neither is it the Chief officers. We/they do not set legislation nor budgetary concerns. We only implement within the framework provided by Blunkett and the Police Authorities (who incidentally are your civilian peers, appointed locally to manage Police budgets and 'control' the actions of the Chief Officer of their Policing area.
So I'll turn this thread around and to say that as a Police Officer I
1. Have no faith in the Home Secretary or any other part of New Labour.
2. Have no faith in the ability of the Local Police Authorities (civilians) who control at a high level the way in which an area is policed and the way the policing budgets are carved up.
3. Have no faith in the way in which public money is spent on Camera Partnerships and the like, where they are implemented outside of high risk locations/accident blackspots.
So the bottom line is a question to you.... no not a question but an action.....
Pressure your local Policing Authority and MP to take steps to remedy that which you consider to be wrong. Leave the rank and file officers out of your grievences and please, please don't be so foolish as to take matters in to your own hands, because it will be YOU who will then be at the mercy of the Courts..
Cheers
**999**
1.Speeding IS NOT a criminal offence.
2.Very few Police (and I stress Police) resources are allocated to speeding and Traffic policing in general. However those few generate a very high public profile.
3.The Police are the 'delivery system' by which offenders are prosecuted. We 'sign off' having delivered and leave the matter in the hands of the CPS to prosecute at court. CPS are not a Police organisation, they are a Civilian institution, controlled at the highest level by the government.
Now that bit's sorted read on...
If you need to rant about Police Officers not attending higher priority incidents eg burglaries and the like, then it's not the frontline police officers that you should be tackling, neither is it the Chief officers. We/they do not set legislation nor budgetary concerns. We only implement within the framework provided by Blunkett and the Police Authorities (who incidentally are your civilian peers, appointed locally to manage Police budgets and 'control' the actions of the Chief Officer of their Policing area.
So I'll turn this thread around and to say that as a Police Officer I
1. Have no faith in the Home Secretary or any other part of New Labour.
2. Have no faith in the ability of the Local Police Authorities (civilians) who control at a high level the way in which an area is policed and the way the policing budgets are carved up.
3. Have no faith in the way in which public money is spent on Camera Partnerships and the like, where they are implemented outside of high risk locations/accident blackspots.
So the bottom line is a question to you.... no not a question but an action.....
Pressure your local Policing Authority and MP to take steps to remedy that which you consider to be wrong. Leave the rank and file officers out of your grievences and please, please don't be so foolish as to take matters in to your own hands, because it will be YOU who will then be at the mercy of the Courts..
Cheers
**999**
**999** said:
Can we just straighten this out:
1.Speeding IS NOT a criminal offence.
2.Very few Police (and I stress Police) resources are allocated to speeding and Traffic policing in general. However those few generate a very high public profile.
3.The Police are the 'delivery system' by which offenders are prosecuted. We 'sign off' having delivered and leave the matter in the hands of the CPS to prosecute at court. CPS are not a Police organisation, they are a Civilian institution, controlled at the highest level by the government.
**999**
Just to pick up on your points 999.
It really doesn't matter if it is a criminal offence or not - the point is that the system is affecting the lives of tax paying good honest citizens who are fed up with it - probably even includes your here.
As for the relationship with the CPS and Police I would have to disagree with you. They are totally 100% in bed with each other. Think of all the Road Satefy Partnerships that have been setup. I believe the meetings take place between the councils, the police, the CPS and the magistrates. Whom if I'm not mistaken each take a share of the "profits" made from this SCAM.
Otherwise thanks for comments.
**999** said:Wise words 999 but how easy is this? I do write to my MP - Theresa May about issues of concern to me (usually road related) but how would I identify the correct person with any influence in the relevent Police Authority? Rich..
Can we just straighten this out the bottom line is a question to you.... no not a question but an action.....
Pressure your local Policing Authority and MP to take steps to remedy that which you consider to be wrong.
**999** said:
Can we just straighten this out:
1.Speeding IS NOT a criminal offence.
If it was there would be little police interest in it.
**999** said:
2.Very few Police (and I stress Police) resources are allocated to speeding
Utter sh*te! Over 2 million speeders are caught every year. I would say this is well in excess of reported incidents of speeding. I don't have other figures but whichever way you measure it the police presecute more safe motorists then dangerous ones *and* far mor emotorists than any other criminal group.
**999** said:
3.The Police are the 'delivery system' by which offenders are prosecuted.
The police make the choice of who they catch. The resources that went into the camera van prosecution could have gone into policemen on the street.
**999** said:
So I'll turn this thread around and to say that as a Police Officer I
1. Have no faith in the Home Secretary or any other part of New Labour.
2. Have no faith in the ability of the Local Police Authorities (civilians) who control at a high level the way in which an area is policed and the way the policing budgets are carved up.
3. Have no faith in the way in which public money is spent on Camera Partnerships and the like, where they are implemented outside of high risk locations/accident blackspots.
Hoo, and if I may venture, rah!!!
Thanks for your input! Always welcome!
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 23 July 11:28
RichB said:
Can we just straighten this out the bottom line is a question to you.... no not a question but an action.....
Pressure your local Policing Authority and MP to take steps to remedy that which you consider to be wrong.
Wise words 999 but how easy is this? I do write to my MP - Theresa May about issues of concern to me (usually road related) but how would I identify the correct person with any influence in the relevent Police Authority? Rich..
Rich,
the local Police Authority members should be mentioned somewhere on your Local Force Website. If they are not then an enquiry at your local station shoul provide - after much scratching of heads - the necessary details.
**999**
lucozade said:
Just to pick up on your points 999.
It really doesn't matter if it is a criminal offence or not - the point is that the system is affecting the lives of tax paying good honest citizens who are fed up with it - probably even includes your here.
As for the relationship with the CPS and Police I would have to disagree with you. They are totally 100% in bed with each other. Think of all the Road Satefy Partnerships that have been setup. I believe the meetings take place between the councils, the police, the CPS and the magistrates. Whom if I'm not mistaken each take a share of the "profits" made from this SCAM.
Otherwise thanks for comments.
The Police and CPS are certainly not in bed with each other. We may work together but I assure you that is under sufferance.
As for the scamera partnerships - well Police have an involvement but that is driven by the Police Authority and actually involves very little actual Police involvement other than to sign on... In that I understand we hold little sway.
As for the proceeds, the Police can only use their funds obtained by these means to fund further Road Traffic Measures - so really they have no impact on day to day policing.
**999**
toad_oftoadhall said:
how do the police deal with the loss of public respect and confidence in thier abilities! it must surely make the job much harder when everyone is stinging from a speeding fine? when i were a lad we used to bugger off on sight of a copper! now they just stick around and mouth off! i do know how hard the job is!
1) When I was a lad being in trouble with the police was a thing to be ashamed of. Now 2 million drivers a year are in trouble with the law. Ergo breaking the law is no longer percieved to be bad.
2) The police used to be on the side of the public and against criminals. Now they've chosen to criminalise everybody it's them against everybody.
Very strange policy decision for the rozzers to have made.
...and, to be fair, the chief rozzers who presumably decided to victimise the motorist hasn't got to face the public backlash.
Sadly the only people we can show our disatisfaction to are the pavement plod who are presumably interested in crime as opposed to pestering the safe motorist.[1]
[1] Camera vans are aimed at the safe motorist. If you're driving dangerously or illegally they aren't interested.
Oh FFS - speeding IS illegal, like it or not (and I don't). The GOVERNMENT and the LENTILIST TO$$ERS WHO RUN THE SCAMERA PARTNERSHIPS SHOULD BE THE ONES YOU'RE PI$$ED AT, NOT THE PLOD. The Government say to the Chief Woodentops 'Here's your targets, here's your budget, off you trot' and he's hamstrung before he starts. Granted, some of the Head Shed in various forces need educating as to what's important, but most of them are clued up already and realise what a pain in the a$$ that bearded pillock at the Home Office really is. The police haven't criminalised anyone, it's the Home Office - politicians, in other words.
The Police are doing what is required of them by the laws that are made in Parliament. Gripe at your MP, not your local Plod - all he's doing is his job. If your job is in danger because YOU CHOSE to ignore the posted speed limit then that's YOUR fault, chap - and no-one else's.
I don't agree with the speed limits as they are now - they were set 40-odd years ago and maybe were appropriate then, but they are not now. Some - around schools and heavily populated housing estates for example - need lowering; most need increasing (as does the level of compulsory training IMHO) including M-way and dual carriageway limits. That DOES NOT mean you can arbitrarily ignore the current limits as you please and subsequently blame Plod for enforcing the law; vote for someone who'll change the law next Parliament (for those who are hard of thinking that AIN'T New Labour
).toad_oftoadhall said:
Can we just straighten this out:
1.Speeding IS NOT a criminal offence.
toad_oftoadhall said:
If it was there would be little police interest in it.
That's not really fair is it!
**999** said:
2.Very few Police (and I stress Police) resources are allocated to speeding
toad_oftoadhall said:
Utter sh*te! Over 2 million speeders are caught every year. I would say this is well in excess of reported incidents of speeding. I don't have other figures but whichever way you measure it the police presecute more safe motorists then dangerous ones *and* far mor emotorists than any other criminal group.
I'm afraid you are way off the mark here. But to be fair that's also everyones impression due to the governments insistence of creating the high profile that speeding currently has. Here's a few figures that may prove my point.
My force has approx 3000 police officers in all ranks and roles.
Camera units employ 8 officers (as far a I can establish)that's 0.26% of the force establishment.
The Traffic Dept has about 60 officers in total including those in the Camera Unit.
Speed prosecutions may be higher than any other group, but that has a lot to do with there being a lot more offenders out there than there are burglars. Also speeders are a lot easier to catch in the act - i.e. by camera, require significantly fewer actual Police resources,sometimes none - SPEC cameras for instance and the Government - not the Police - maintain their push that speeding is the main contributory factor in road traffic crashes. If you combine this information with the general burden of proof being easier to achieve then you see why the general public get the impression that Speed is all the Police deal with. It is not. To support this my force has around 2000 reported incidents of all types occur per every 24hr period 365 days a year. Attendance at those that require attendance IS NOT affected in any way by the loss of 8 officers who are dedicated to dealing with Speed detection. What does affect attendance is a lack of resources overall (caused by the Police Authority and at the highest level the Government)combined with the problems caused by incredible levels of bureaucracy.
I'm not trying to change you opinion here, merely supplying you with facts so that you are able to have a better understanding of how these impressions are created.**999** said:
3.The Police are the 'delivery system' by which offenders are prosecuted.toad_oftoadhall said:
The police make the choice of who they catch. The resources that went into the camera van prosecution could have gone into policemen on the street.
I think I answered this above...
**999** said:
So I'll turn this thread around and to say that as a Police Officer I
1. Have no faith in the Home Secretary or any other part of New Labour.
2. Have no faith in the ability of the Local Police Authorities (civilians) who control at a high level the way in which an area is policed and the way the policing budgets are carved up.
3. Have no faith in the way in which public money is spent on Camera Partnerships and the like, where they are implemented outside of high risk locations/accident blackspots.
Hoo, and if I may venture, rah!!!
Thanks for your input! Always welcome!
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 23 July 11:28
Thanks....
**999**
To answer the original question, I have to say that the posts here from **999** have ramped my respect up a notch.
It is undeniable that they have a tough job to do, and the powers that be do very little to make it easier - and quite a lot to drive a wedge between the BiB and the public.
It is undeniable that they have a tough job to do, and the powers that be do very little to make it easier - and quite a lot to drive a wedge between the BiB and the public.
'how do the police deal with the loss of public respect ' - It's a PR problem caused my those w**kers in Whitehall, as we all know, the police work very hard and are continually held back be the government, but it becomes a problem for the police when they 'appear' to not be taking crime seriously because they are busy catching speeders. Criminals think it's open season and the public become scared.
It's all good and well writing to you MP etc, but your average person on the street won't/can't be bothered enough to do this (until they become a victim).
The question is, how to the police/government start making people beleive in the system again.
And yes ***999***, you are quite correct, take the law into you own hands and you inevitably get caught and punished more than whatever the little sh*ts did in the first place.
I for one plan to start a pig farm.
It's all good and well writing to you MP etc, but your average person on the street won't/can't be bothered enough to do this (until they become a victim).
The question is, how to the police/government start making people beleive in the system again.
And yes ***999***, you are quite correct, take the law into you own hands and you inevitably get caught and punished more than whatever the little sh*ts did in the first place.
I for one plan to start a pig farm.
loaf said:
The GOVERNMENT and the LENTILIST TO$$ERS WHO RUN THE SCAMERA PARTNERSHIPS SHOULD BE THE ONES YOU'RE PI$$ED AT, NOT THE PLOD.
Plod send the NIP. Plod have the descretion to not send the NIP. QED.
If they dodn't want to be blamed why don't they refuse to have thier letter head attached to any NIP that isn't issued by a qualified serving officer?
victormeldrew said:
To answer the original question, I have to say that the posts here from **999** have ramped my respect up a notch.
The plod posts always have that effect on me. 999, TonyRec and Madcop are a credit to their profession. [1]
[1] Except the recent 'bloke lost his foot becaus esomeone else braked for my speedtrap so it's the speeders fault' post... Not very cheering...
**999** said:
That's not really fair is it!
Don't start getting all reasonable on me!!!
**999** said:
SNIP QUITE A LOT OF GOOD SENSE
To be honest it's not going to overcome my prejudice, but it's a pretty compelling argument.
I still say if the talivan were sacked tomorrow the rozzers would be national heroes again.
toad_oftoadhall said:
The GOVERNMENT and the LENTILIST TO$$ERS WHO RUN THE SCAMERA PARTNERSHIPS SHOULD BE THE ONES YOU'RE PI$$ED AT, NOT THE PLOD.
Plod send the NIP. Plod have the descretion to not send the NIP. QED.
If they dodn't want to be blamed why don't they refuse to have thier letter head attached to any NIP that isn't issued by a qualified serving officer?
Are you serious? Everybody has a choice in how they do their job. Sometimes your job dicates you need (unless you quit) to do things following a certain procedure. If everybody in a job bent the rules cos they have a 'choice' they won't have a job!
edc said:
Are you serious? Everybody has a choice in how they do their job. Sometimes your job dicates you need (unless you quit) to do things following a certain procedure. If everybody in a job bent the rules cos they have a 'choice' they won't have a job!
Police have the power to caution.
Cautioning isn't bending the rules, it IS the rules.
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