54 in a 30 can I avoid a ban?
Discussion
Hi,
I know it was stupid but I have been caught by a mobile camera doing 54 in a 30 limit.
It was at night & not a particularly built up area but I should of known better so my own fault. The officer that stopped me said he would recommend I get 3 points rather than the maximum penalty due to the conditions and the fact I have held my licience for 17 years and it is clean.
I did plead guilty by post to the court & was expecting 6 points & fairly hefty fine however I have received a notice of adjournment stating - 'It has been noted from the number of endorsements recorder against you that you are liable to be disqualified from driving' I now have to attend court to put forward representations as to why I should not be disqualified - is it worth me getting legal representation? The penalty does seem a bit harsh, are they looking to ban me because I can't afford a large fine?
Any help appreciated as I need my licience so I can travel to work.
Pet said:
I now have to attend court to put forward representations as to why I should not be disqualified - is it worth me getting legal representation?
You have entered an early guilty plea (which will carry favour with the Magistrates) and, unless you particularly want to pay a solicitor to prepare mitigation on your behalf, then I'd say save your money. Bear in mind you wouldn't be able to reclaim any costs.A ban is by no means a foregone conclusion - you just need to convince the Magistrates why they should not award a ban.
I suggest taking this good advice on board:
Vesuvius996 said:
When in court:
1. Wear a dark plain suit
2. Wear a plain white shirt, and a plain tie
3. Wear decent shoes. Polish them.
4. No visible tattoos or jewellery. At all. Especially chains or ear rings.
5. Short neat hair. No hair gel.
6. Shave.
7. Absolutely no comedy socks.
8. When you arrive at court, go and find the Clerk of the Court. Tell him or her who you are, and that you've never been to court before and you're nervous and don't know what to do. Be very polite. Remember - these are the gatekeepers to the Magistrates. If you appear to them to be not the normal scrote, they will likely (a) call your case on first so you're not sitting with scum for hours and (b) tell the Magistrate that you seem like a thoroughly nice chap and not the type at all.
9. When answering a question, say, "yes sir" and "no sir." This matters. It might stick in your throat, but it might save your hide.
10. Show remorse. Say how you are ashamed of yourself, and very sorry, and that you appreciate the stupidity of what you did.
11. Bring letters from an employer saying what a thoroughly excellent employee’s you are. If you need your licence for work, this letter should say so.
Years of experience of the Courts taught me that these things, some of which seem as if they SHOULDN’T matter, damn well do. The Magistrates are people, with their own prejudices. By appearing to be not the usual scum seen in Court, you will surprise them, and they WILL be lenient.
1. Wear a dark plain suit
2. Wear a plain white shirt, and a plain tie
3. Wear decent shoes. Polish them.
4. No visible tattoos or jewellery. At all. Especially chains or ear rings.
5. Short neat hair. No hair gel.
6. Shave.
7. Absolutely no comedy socks.
8. When you arrive at court, go and find the Clerk of the Court. Tell him or her who you are, and that you've never been to court before and you're nervous and don't know what to do. Be very polite. Remember - these are the gatekeepers to the Magistrates. If you appear to them to be not the normal scrote, they will likely (a) call your case on first so you're not sitting with scum for hours and (b) tell the Magistrate that you seem like a thoroughly nice chap and not the type at all.
9. When answering a question, say, "yes sir" and "no sir." This matters. It might stick in your throat, but it might save your hide.
10. Show remorse. Say how you are ashamed of yourself, and very sorry, and that you appreciate the stupidity of what you did.
11. Bring letters from an employer saying what a thoroughly excellent employee’s you are. If you need your licence for work, this letter should say so.
Years of experience of the Courts taught me that these things, some of which seem as if they SHOULDN’T matter, damn well do. The Magistrates are people, with their own prejudices. By appearing to be not the usual scum seen in Court, you will surprise them, and they WILL be lenient.
Pet said:
The penalty does seem a bit harsh, are they looking to ban me because I can't afford a large fine?
No, it has nothing to do with your ability to pay a fine. A period of disqualification is being considered because the Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines suggest 6 points OR a ban of up to 56 days upon conviction for 54mph in a 30mph limit.You say your Licence is clean? They say there are points (valid) on it that disqualification likely under totting? Have they the correct information from DVLA?
You can put forward evidence that a ban would cause great hardship i.e.loss of job (letter from Boss), loss of wages problems with mortgage etc. If substantial gives Mags power not to impose a ban.
dvd
You can put forward evidence that a ban would cause great hardship i.e.loss of job (letter from Boss), loss of wages problems with mortgage etc. If substantial gives Mags power not to impose a ban.
dvd
Thank you both for your reply.
The court tips are very helpful as I have never been before and have no idea what to expect and am honestly pretty scared. If I do receive a ban is it instant as I am relying on approx 2 hour's on public transport to get me to court on time?
[quote=Dwight VanDriver]You say your Licence is clean? They say there are points (valid) on it that disqualification likely under totting? Have they the correct information from DVLA?
I telephoned the DVLA to check as the summons said 'It has been noted from the number of endorsements recorder against you that you are liable to be disqualified from driving' which I thought sounded like I had existing points but they said my licience is clean.
The court tips are very helpful as I have never been before and have no idea what to expect and am honestly pretty scared. If I do receive a ban is it instant as I am relying on approx 2 hour's on public transport to get me to court on time?
[quote=Dwight VanDriver]You say your Licence is clean? They say there are points (valid) on it that disqualification likely under totting? Have they the correct information from DVLA?
I telephoned the DVLA to check as the summons said 'It has been noted from the number of endorsements recorder against you that you are liable to be disqualified from driving' which I thought sounded like I had existing points but they said my licience is clean.
Pet said:
The court tips are very helpful as I have never been before and have no idea what to expect and am honestly pretty scared.
If you have an hour to kill, why not pop along to your local Magistrates' Court and observe a few cases ? Its really not as bad as you seem to think it is..
Pet said:
If I do receive a ban is it instant..
Yes.It does sound like they think you're a totting case.
However, for 54 in a 30, you will be pulled into court. Why? We don't like to ban people in absentia. Sentencing guidelines are 6 points, or disqualify for up to 8 weeks.
Don't seem like there are aggravating factors, and there's also not much offence mitigation. You have however been extremely cooperation with the police and that will count in your favour.
6 points, 2 weeks wages fine. Possibly 28 day ban.
However, for 54 in a 30, you will be pulled into court. Why? We don't like to ban people in absentia. Sentencing guidelines are 6 points, or disqualify for up to 8 weeks.
Don't seem like there are aggravating factors, and there's also not much offence mitigation. You have however been extremely cooperation with the police and that will count in your favour.
6 points, 2 weeks wages fine. Possibly 28 day ban.
Not so Doc.
Under Road Traffic Offender Act 1988 both offences carry the same power of discretionary Disq. The facts/circumstances of the case will influence the Magistrates as to their decision.
Obviously a person on 9 points in the past 3 years is far more serious than a once in a lifetime lack of concentration?
dvd
Under Road Traffic Offender Act 1988 both offences carry the same power of discretionary Disq. The facts/circumstances of the case will influence the Magistrates as to their decision.
Obviously a person on 9 points in the past 3 years is far more serious than a once in a lifetime lack of concentration?
dvd
Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Friday 8th February 15:08
Dr Jekyll said:
It's very common to get a ban for speeding, but seems relatively exceptional, certainly not the norm, to get a ban for 'without due care and attention'.
Why is this? Or am I mistaken?
Because there are loads of speed cameras about collecting taxes and not many traffic cops to spot the DWDCA offence.Why is this? Or am I mistaken?
That would be my guess.
To the OP, as above, be very polite, a letter from your employer stating how lovely you are (I believe it can be addressed to the bench - the magistrates, hopefully someone will confirm) and how hard life will be for you if you get banned, i.e. you need your car for work etc..
My first speeding ticket was for 57 in a 30, pulled by a RS2000 (newer shape) in about 1993ish. Got 3 points and £60 fine. Do you have to go to court for htis kind of speed now? The BiB was ok with me, he said you could go to court but its so near 60 you might as well take the points. Just adviced me to take it easy. Took the advice and only been caught 4 times since!
GreatGranny said:
My first speeding ticket was for 57 in a 30,..
Do you have to go to court for htis kind of speed now?
Not necessarily.Do you have to go to court for htis kind of speed now?
Whilst the guidelines suggest anything 50mph or above in a 30mph limit should go straight to summons (rather than fixed penalty), proper police officers who pull you over will always be in a position to be discretional.
You are much less likely to receive the same discretion from the tubbies at Scammer HQ as they review video tapes / rolls of film..
Don't worry in a short while u will make jokes about it.But if u need ur licence use loss of job or hardship on dependents and remorse as defence.SS2 advice is good.I had two dangerous charges for speeding (one offence) 90 in the 60 and 85 in the 40 they had finaly stopped me in the 30 zone only because I slowed down. Flash BMW with private plates did not help my cause. Anyway got to court £200 fine and only allowed to dive a van for a period of 6 months because I neeeeeded my licence this is some 20 years ago. Funny thing was the case before mine, 2 charges of ABH on 2 police officers resulted in £50 fine and 20 hours community service make ur own mind up on the wheels of justice.
said:
Pet said:
Thank you both for your reply.
The court tips are very helpful as I have never been before and have no idea what to expect and am honestly pretty scared.
People will be there to show you what to do and where to stand. You may see a couple of scrotes, a couple of coppers, some suits, maybe someone crying.The court tips are very helpful as I have never been before and have no idea what to expect and am honestly pretty scared.
You'll go into a room and stand to face the magistrates when told, kind of like going to see the Headmaster, but for adults (probably with 3 headmasters).
Remember: you f
ked up, but you didn't do anything evil, and although the court will properly treat your case seriously, you are small potatoes. Loads of these boring ones for them every week.It is very normal for 'ordinary people who did something stupid' to feel the Sword of Damocles hanging over them in this situation, but's that's kind of the point of pursuing you through the court - to give you a kick up the backside.
Me? complacent 62 in a 30 (country roads leading to a built up area from similar NSL country roads). I know someone else who got caught twice at over 50 in the same spot, and got 3 points each time.
I did the Vesuvius thing; meek and remorseful (both genuine). Suited with glasses on, rockin' the Clark Kent look. Solicitor as well, and a written letter of apology. One good thing about the solicitor, is if nothing else, he's your guide in an intimidating situation.
£250 fine (7 years ago) and 6 points, no ban. You may be luckier or unluckier.
The point is, go in respectfully, learn your lesson, and move on.
You will be leaving court to the fresh air, regardless of transport, and that's a good thing.
1) You are indeed small potatoes
And we typically see 20-30 speeders in one sitting, so it will be slightly impersonal, and probably quite fast. 2) Meek and remorseful (letter as well doesn't hurt), and when they say 'do you have anything to say?' keep being remorseful - that will help you no end. And wear a suit, or at least smart clothes. When people turn up in shorts and T shirts it is a hint they're not taking us entirely seriously.
3) The Usher will tell you what to do and where to go. Once in court, the clerk will tell you when to stand up etc. THey are there to help you.
4) Don't be scared - really, we're normal people, but it's our job there and then to sentence you. It's not done with malice - we will genuinely try and be fair. If you say you absolutely can't lose your licence, but you're incredibly sorry, then odds are you'll get points instead.
5) All of the above is general guidance - it will entirely depend on the bench you get on the day.
Good luck.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Not so Doc.
Under Road Traffic Offender Act 1988 both offences carry the same power of discretionary Disq. The facts/circumstances of the case will influence the Magistrates as to their decision.
Obviously a person on 9 points in the past 3 years is far more serious than a once in a lifetime lack of concentration?
dvd
Hmmm. I thought about this, because anecdotally, I think you *do* get less disquals for DCA. Why? Under Road Traffic Offender Act 1988 both offences carry the same power of discretionary Disq. The facts/circumstances of the case will influence the Magistrates as to their decision.
Obviously a person on 9 points in the past 3 years is far more serious than a once in a lifetime lack of concentration?
dvd
Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Friday 8th February 15:08
Well, I think it's because DCA offences are spread quite evenly across the entire citizenry - a momentary lapse of attention. And the average person has 0 points on their licence. So, in the absence of previous points, we would consider it harsh to ban someone and would opt for the points route.
WIth speeding, with the 55 in a 30 zone cases we get, where there is the option of disqual or 4/5/6 points, a lot of them already have points or old speeding convictions over the last 10 years, so we tend towards a disqual as they're a habitual offender. If you had a clean licence and got a 55 in a 30 pull, you'd get points.
At least, you would from me.
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